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What rogues need to be competitive

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#21 Echizen

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:38 AM

So we are talking about sub only? ) It's just retarded on it's own because i do not want being forced to play sub. It's mandatory for 3-rd expansion already.

My thoughts about changes.
1)MfD removed and replaced with another talent.
2)CnD removed and replaced with another talanc becouse it's either must or tatally useless. nobody will pick it for opening only. Shs is a way better even now and with subterfuge change it will be even more mandatory.
3)Burst of speed reworked : add 15-20 sec CD and make it remove roots. Otherwise it's just not worth abandoning ShS. One of the bigest advantages of ShS is it's zero cost. When you need to maintain rupture snd recup and optionally feint it's really hard to find 30 energy.
4)We could have some passive damage reduction during cc or some active reduction which could be activated during cc. Any mechanic allowing us to survive will work.
5)Recup should be reworked. It should be a talent with no combo cost but healing rogues placed insted of leeching poison. It doesnt matter what mechanic it will have.  It could be something like "healing 5% every second for 4 seconds after stun ICD 25 sec". Maybe with something like  "Every tick removing dots for 5 sec." Or whenever you spend a combo point you heal yourself for 3% of your total health. And while it looks too much lets just remember feral glyf. Glyph of Ferocious Bite causes Ferocious Bite to heal the Druid for 2% of their maximum health for each 10 Energy use It means that for every 60 energy ferals restore 12% of max hp. And it is only a glyf. (totally retarded in my oppinion)
The main reason for it is that it's already too hard to maintain everything and you just do not have any time left for offensive finishers outside of burst. To make everything work you need too much time. It's hard to do something like that. You feel yourself restricted in so many ways.
6)Increase damage in CP generating abilities. It would be a slight buff in pve too.
7)reduce FF duration to 8 sec. It's spammable anyway so there is no need for a long duration. Or make it DR with itself or maybe other CC.

Anything from that list would be good. Ofcource if all of them will be somewhat implanted we will be OP.

Edited by Echizen, 22 June 2013 - 12:45 AM.


#22 mirox

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:39 AM

I would actually like if they reintroduced Hit and Run talent instead of SHS and made SHS baseline on lower CD, breaking roots. This should be enough to be able to stick to the target.

#23 Braindance

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:47 AM

From hitting and getting hit by rogues:
1) They die waaaaaaaay too fast vs melee. Waaaaaaay too fast. Faster than anything else. No passive damage reduction pls - something like baseline CR and lowered cost for feint. Feint is a nice ability - every damage reduction ability in the game should be like feint
2)They need a very slight mobility buff - something like ShS usable in roots and cd down to 20 seconds. The sprint idea is also nice
3)Their damage (in my eyes but I might be wrong) seems laughable outside of cds, and a tad too strong during cds (on cloth - on plate it's average). Can't comment on how to fix it since I haven't played rogue since s1
4)Working cheat death

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#24 mirox

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:59 AM

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

4)Working cheat death
This part will happen when certain developers get out of denial that its working fine xD

#25 Tsx

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:04 AM

the fact that u need to waste so many things on combo points(aka slice n dice,evisc,rupture,recup,ks) is hell annoying too.

#26 AcerMVP

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:28 AM

View PostYarmyxx, on 22 June 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

the fact that u need to waste so many things on combo points(aka slice n dice,evisc,rupture,recup,ks) is hell annoying too.

But rogues have always used Combo Points for these abilities since early game. Only Recup was added later on... Also great post Ayume! Glad to see your thoughts!

#27 Sykoh

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:34 AM

not gonna lie though keeping up rupture/slice n dice and the occasional recuperate is a big fuckin pain in the ass

#28 Isumi

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:34 AM

really good thoughts, like them alot.

the only thing i want to see nerfed which you didn't mentioned is mind numbing.

25% is really annoying think it should be changed to smth like 10%

#29 Maleficent

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:03 AM

Aside from the great thoughts in this thread, on a personal note I really miss the 100% Crit on Ambush. Seems like the general consensus is that other things besides Shadow Dance need to be mended but my Dance damage is really terrible outside of CDs or lucky Evisc crits.

#30 Vicinity

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:05 AM

good ideas

#31 Wambamkablam

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:08 AM

View Postprokillur, on 21 June 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

rouge is fine l2play
Idiot....this is why we shouldn't let "Member" be able to post on junkies stuff.... bunch of idiots

#32 wodeta

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:15 AM

Before asking for changes, check rogue on PTR, rogue scales well with gear, IMO they're looking pretty good on PTR right now
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#33 Vhyro

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:37 AM

Maybe it's just me but I love zipping around the map with Cloak and Dagger. One of the coolest feelings I've ever experienced.
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#34 Capers

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:20 AM

It's cool. Faerie Fire is now 20 seconds instead of 40, so we're set guys.
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#35 Jaxington

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:35 AM

Good ideas Ayume ._. I agree with what you posted completely.

View Postmirox, on 22 June 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

I would actually like if they reintroduced Hit and Run talent instead of SHS and made SHS baseline on lower CD, breaking roots. This should be enough to be able to stick to the target.

Hit n Run was one of my favorite talents to use and I agree I would really enjoy its reintroduction.
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#36 varellz

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 05:55 AM

View PostAyume, on 22 June 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

Hemo back on sang vein would be nice, but it seems unlikely. I think they're pretty certain they like the idea of forcing rogues to use bleeds, maybe for pve reasons, I'm not certain. Rupture has never really been good damage, always subpar.

Subpar, yes. It never was the best but it actually did some dmg in bc for sure just remember the old vids of neilyo where he killed other rogues with rupture but yea... there was no selfheal..

It feels just unrewarding to use rupture now, it costs combopoints and you "waste" youre time on a target to get up rupture instead of doing real dmg , just like some people already said its a pain in the ass to get the shit up (snd rupture recup).

#37 Vhyro

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:04 AM

What about removing Recuperate entirely? I hate the ability, and it's not tied to energy/sec anymore.
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#38 WildeHilde

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:18 AM

Heals should be a trade-off. Regarding other specs, I miss Premeditation so much when playing Mutilate or Combat, would love to see that skill spread around.

#39 sounds

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:19 AM

View PostAcerMVP, on 22 June 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

But rogues have always used Combo Points for these abilities since early game. Only Recup was added later on... Also great post Ayume! Glad to see your thoughts!

I don't see why they can't do 1 of the following;
  • Make combo points stack on the rogue instead
  • bake recuperate into snd
  • flat out remove snd (I think at this point snd is an outdated mechanic).
e; I recognise that recuperate should be a trade-off but it's absolutely no fun or justifiable having to juggle 4 different buffs/debuffs to do the amount of damage we do (outside of CDs).

#40 Vhyro

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:27 AM

Cake Recuperate into Slice and Dice?
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