Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Holy Paladins 5.4 - Gutted


  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#1 Zilea

Zilea
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 398
  • Talents: Holy 0/1/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 192

Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:59 AM

  • Eternal Flame initial healing has been reduced by 30%.
  • Sacred Shield (Old) has been renamed to Holy Shield and is no longer a talent. Holy Shield is a Protection Paladin ability learned at level 85.
  • Sacred Shield (New)
    • Holy: When the Paladin or their Beacon of Light target falls below 30% health, that target gains a Sacred Shield absorbing damage equal to 30% of their maximum health. Sacred Shield can only occur once every 2 minutes.
    • Protection, Retribution: When the Paladin falls below 30% health, they gain a Sacred Shield absorbing damage equal to 30% of their maximum health. Sacred Shield can only occur once every 2 minutes.
    • Mastery: Illuminated Healing no longer activates from periodic healing effects.
    • Divine Plea no longer reduces the amount of healing done by 50%
    • Selfless Healer stacks now also work on Divine Light in addition to Flash of Light.
      • Bastion of Glory will now apply Selfless Healer bonus to healing to the casting Paladin as well as other targets and consume all stacks of Bastion of Glory in the process.
For those holy paladins that have been excited about patch 5.4 with the new Turn Evil talent and Unbreakable Spirit are in for some real shockers. The latest changes on the 5.4 PTR will be devastating to  holy paladins.

The Eternal Flame change is an absolute huge nerf, plus the mastery change (which will be another nerf to Eternal Flame).

I was okay with all of that because I figured "well, maybe Sacred Shield will be better". But, the Sacred Shield change is a huge nerf. Right now, Sacred Shield absorbs around ~33K damage every 5 seconds. Under the new talent, Sacred Shield will absorb ~130K damage every 2 minutes. That's quite a difference.

Now, we haven't really gotten a blue response yet to clarify whether or not Sacred Shield is just getting an additional effect or if it is being replaced; if it IS getting replaced, we're screwed.

We also have the Selfless Healer change, but honestly, it's just trash for holy paladins because holy paladins will have no HoTs/shields in between crowd control we get caught in.

So we get to choose between a severely nerfed Eternal Flame, a Sacred Shield that is completely useless, and a spell that will leave us with no HoT/absorb

What happened to holy paladins getting some sort of CC break tool? Hell, on an unrelated note (which sort of impacts us), what happened to shaman's Tremor totem/totemic restoration being removed/redesigned?

I've been pushing and poking Blizzard to get a response... nothing.

Edited by Zilea, 21 June 2013 - 09:10 AM.


#2 Mirionx

Mirionx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1243
  • Talents: Holy 1/2/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2662

Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:15 AM

New sacred shield is also affected by battle fatigue and MS

#3 Dukellington

Dukellington
  • Members
  • Posts: 45

Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:37 AM

How can any sane, sentient human being look at the healers in this game side by side and not see that paladins are an absolute joke?

We've been begging for over half a year now to be seriously looked at and there responses have been pathetically incompetent. Start sending those tweets to holinka and make your voice heard guys or holy paladins will be a completely dead spec in arena in 5.4.

#4 Hofflerand

Hofflerand
  • Junkies
  • Posts: 198
  • LocationNY

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:01 AM

The new Sacred Shield may be balanced for PvE, but without a PvP oriented secondary effect no paladin will use it in arena. Eternal Flame is already weak for Ret and it's unfortunate that PvE (I assume this is the cause) is going to ruin a fun talent for Holy PvP.

It's nice to see they're trying to make Selfless Healer useful for Holy, but I'm not sure they've done it justice. While hasted/instant Divine Lights sounds nice, I'm not sure a Holy Paladin can spend a bunch of GCD's on Judgment in a MoP paced arena match. And healing without HoT's must be tricky.

Tier 45 verdict: Ret as usual is stuck with one good talent and zero creativity, while Holy seems to be getting screwed altogether. I don't mean to sound dramatic, but that's how I see it. ^_^

#5 Mirionx

Mirionx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1243
  • Talents: Holy 1/2/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2662

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

http://i.imgur.com/BkavLyB.png

Is the sacred shield on PTR with Mortal strike effect, not sure if battle fatigue is active in duels.

Oh and Eternal Flame crit heals 100k w/o battle fatigue

Edited by Mirionx, 21 June 2013 - 10:04 AM.


#6 Crawthz

Crawthz
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 704
  • Talents: Frost 0/0/0/2/1/0
  • 2v2: 576
  • LocationFinland

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:06 AM

View PostMirionx, on 21 June 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

http://i.imgur.com/BkavLyB.png

Is the sacred shield on PTR with Mortal strike effect, not sure if battle fatigue is active in duels.

Oh and Eternal Flame crit heals 100k w/o battle fatigue

That's a nice little 2min "last stand" proc there, easily comparable to Shamans 30sec cd one! Amirite?
www.twitch.tv/crawthz - Gladiator Frostmage stream, please follow!

#7 Mirionx

Mirionx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1243
  • Talents: Holy 1/2/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2662

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:09 AM

Like, this new sacred shield could be so good if they changed it to a shorter CD maybe 30 seconds CD on your beacon target and 1 minute CD on yourself but like this..

#8 Dukellington

Dukellington
  • Members
  • Posts: 45

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:10 AM

This is a classic instance where pve balance completely clashes with pvp balance, and in this case pve is taking complete precedence over pvp without any regard for collateral damage in pvp.

#9 Evolute

Evolute
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1761
  • Talents: Restoration 0/2/0/1/0/0
  • RBG: 192
  • LocationCanada

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:15 AM

I like the new selfless healer, I dunno. I like to judge, I liked keeping the haste buff up. It added something to the playstyle, even if it was a judge every 30 seconds lol.

I'm not a fan of Eternal Flame nerf, that's a big hit. We for sure need some sort of CC reduction (not break, the game needs to get rid of all breaks...) or some sort of HoT mechanic that can't be abused in PvE situations.

Maybe make it so that the 10% holy shock is baseline, and the 2pc PVP bonus gets changed to adding a HoT when you Flash of Light a target? Like old Sacred Shield HoT of WOTLK.

Edited by Evolute, 21 June 2013 - 10:15 AM.

Posted Image


#10 Athená

Athená
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 1223
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2352
  • LocationThe Hague

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:52 AM

Healer class with the least passive healing, if you can even call it that.
What do they nerf? The only passive healing we have, well played.
I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

#11 pyrellael_3428244

pyrellael_3428244
  • Junkies
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • US-Kirin Tor
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 160
  • Talents: Elemental 0/2/0/1/0/0
  • 2v2: 1937
  • 3v3: 2319

Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:04 AM

View PostDukellington, on 21 June 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

How can any sane, sentient human being look at the healers in this game side by side and not see that paladins are an absolute joke?

We've been begging for over half a year now to be seriously looked at and there responses have been pathetically incompetent. Start sending those tweets to holinka and make your voice heard guys or holy paladins will be a completely dead spec in arena in 5.4.
What makes you think they're even good now? Lol the only reason they are viable is because of the comps they can play, aka jungle and stuff of that sort.

Paladins have always relied on their partners. Idk if anyone noticed but in s11 paladins were only good for countering triple dps. They never actually get anything new that makes them useful  and all the other classes get new toys to play with. Holy specifically anyway.

What needs to happen is Holy paladins specifically need some of battle fatigue removed. In times where healing gets globally nerfed it makes them weaker, not stronger. Why? Because they can't avoid cc. In pve my holy shock can crit for 110k. I get 40k holy shock crits with Battle fatigue/MS and THAT is a joke when we rely on that spell, and rely on it to crit, to actually get heals off

#12 cookiezz

cookiezz
  • Members
  • Posts: 8

Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:05 AM

View PostMirionx, on 21 June 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Like, this new sacred shield could be so good if they changed it to a shorter CD maybe 30 seconds CD on your beacon target and 1 minute CD on yourself but like this..

I rather they baked the old sacred shield into the new one. So pallys will be less susceptible to swaps and openers at the same time. The new sacred shield is nice in theory

I see very few complaints from holy on official pvp forums. I think its time to stand up for ourselves like warlocks

#13 obilax

obilax
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 14
  • Talents: Enhancement 1/2/2/0/1/2
  • RBG: 1524
  • Locationnew zealand

Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:13 AM

ALL HAIL HOLINKA HE KNOWS HIS SHIT!!!!
JAY FUCKING KAY.........

#14 Megorix

Megorix
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Farstriders
  • Emberstorm
  • Posts: 201
  • Talents: Combat
  • LocationPrince Edward Island

Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:26 AM

Blizzard incompetence knows no bounds. It never seizes to amaze me at how bad they are at balancing. Holy Paladins are already bad, if it was not for a few ridiculously overpowered DPS classes, you would not see any of them on the ladder at all.

These changes do gut a class that is already vulnerable to CC, and was in desperate need of something to help them keep their teammates up. The ONE thing Paladins have been asking for in the PVP environment was completely ignored. Yeah, we got survival buff, but that is only going to make sure we are alive when one of our teammates dies after we have exhausted our trinket at bubble in the first minute of the game due to all the instant CC and the retarded damage MoP is being know for.

I think their main problem is their reluctance to take advise when it comes to main talent design. If someone suggests something, no matter how good it is, they refuse to use it. They need to be making the decisions, and they need to be the ones that come up with the ideas. It's a joke of a design philosophy, headed by a joke of a lead developer. And we all know they probably didn't even consider the PVP implications... And if they did, they completely forgot battlefatigue was in the game.

I'll take all that back if we end up getting something more before 5.4 is released, but I'm not going to hold my breath, because if history proves anything, I'd have a blue face and nothing to show for it.

#15 Drye

Drye
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Blackrock
  • Glutsturm / Emberstorm
  • Posts: 2852
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2176

Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:32 AM

i like the new selfless healer, even played in beta mop with it. also increasing the heal on yourself is a nice change for a holypally.  the new sacred shield sucks.

but as for numbers: they said, they implement new stuff on PTR, and change the numbers afterwards. so chances are the sacred shield is not finished.
Posted Image

#16 Hofflerand

Hofflerand
  • Junkies
  • Posts: 198
  • LocationNY

Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:01 PM

View PostEvolute, on 21 June 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

I like the new selfless healer, I dunno. I like to judge, I liked keeping the haste buff up. It added something to the playstyle, even if it was a judge every 30 seconds lol.
Assuming you can find the GCD's to Judge enough to make Selfless Healer worthwhile, I suppose you could just make a focus Judgment macro...but God forbid a Holy Paladin actually has to create a macro. :lol:

Blizzard's first step should be to buff Sacred Shield, prob with something PvP oriented that doesn't make it too tempting for PvE (always gotta keep Prot Paladins in mind). I'm not suggesting anything quite this dramatic, but Cold Snap restores 30% health and resets the CD of Ice Block.

Eternal Flame is a major disappointment. I like the idea of a HoT, but it blows for Ret. EF was one of the few things I enjoyed about Holy, but now that's being gutted. At this point I really don't know what they should do with this talent. It's looking to be useful for two specs in PvE (if that) and zero in PvP.

View PostDrye, on 21 June 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

but as for numbers: they said, they implement new stuff on PTR, and change the numbers afterwards. so chances are the sacred shield is not finished.
What concerns me is a Cheat Death mechanic every 2 min that absorbs the full 30% already seems pretty decent for PvE, which makes it kinda hard to buff for PvP, which means the devs have to first realize it's not equally powerful in both sides of the game and then think up a clever solution. If they fiddled with the numbers by buffing SS to 45% or halving the CD, I assume it'd become problematic in PvE.

#17 Miluu

Miluu
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Aegwynn
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 51
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/1/2/0
  • 2v2: 2501
  • 3v3: 2400
  • RBG: 2178

Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:27 PM

http://i.imgur.com/vDk9380.jpg


bug or intended? :o would rly like it tho

#18 Mirionx

Mirionx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1243
  • Talents: Holy 1/2/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2662

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:01 PM

View PostMiluu, on 21 June 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

http://i.imgur.com/vDk9380.jpg


bug or intended? :o would rly like it tho

Bug, in the spellbook it says "Protection" :)

#19 zier123

zier123
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Nordrassil
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 109
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/2/.

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

If they gave holy shield to holy , and the new sacred shield was a 30 second cd ,  mabey paladins would be in a decent spot?

#20 Rhetorical1

Rhetorical1
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 295
  • Talents: Survival 2/2/2/2/1/0
  • 2v2: 1403
  • 3v3: 2131
  • 5v5: 1056

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:33 PM

havent even touched holy this season, why bother?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<