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Hunter nerfs Mage buffs

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#41 Braindance

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:52 AM

View PostVirent, on 21 June 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

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Is that a joke? Roughly 6-8% dmg decrease (assuming no armor pen talent like colossus smash or expose weakness) which doesn't even affect spells, bleeds or 90% of DK damage is the compensation for losing the 15% damage reduction on shadow form? Surely there are more changes incoming, because if that's the only defensive change coming to shadow priests, then you'll never see a shadow priest in arena again.

Armor in general has been a joke since cata.
It's around 14%. Armor was a joke in wrath not in cata.

This is the right direction - casters should be fragile and rely on widening the gap between them and melee, not passive damage reduction. Besides, you don't have to leave shadowform nearly as often as in previous expansions.

You could use a short cd defensive however, like a mini self heal every 1 min or so.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#42 Virent

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:59 AM

View PostBraindance, on 21 June 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

It's around 14%. Armor was a joke in wrath not in cata.

This is the right direction - casters should be fragile and rely on widening the gap between them and melee, not passive damage reduction. Besides, you don't have to leave shadowform nearly as often as in previous expansions.

You could use a short cd defensive however, like a mini self heal every 1 min or so.

I am no expert on how armor works and I am not claiming to be, but based on my limited knowledge of it, there's no actual way it'll be more than 8% reduction at best due to the way extra armor adds up.

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And spriests have always be the tanky type of caster. Not many defensive cds, but make up for it in tankiness. And like I said, you can't increase the armor as a compensation like that because most abilities either ignore most of the armor or simply ignore it completely.

And in Wrath armor became a joke only after armor penetration became so much.

Edited by Virent, 21 June 2013 - 09:01 AM.

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#43 Tsx

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:08 AM

View PostBraindance, on 21 June 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

It's around 14%. Armor was a joke in wrath not in cata.

This is the right direction - casters should be fragile and rely on widening the gap between them and melee, not passive damage reduction. Besides, you don't have to leave shadowform nearly as often as in previous expansions.

You could use a short cd defensive however, like a mini self heal every 1 min or so.
true that, they should never have a dmg reduction vs both casters and melee.

#44 Virent

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:26 AM

View PostYarmyxx, on 21 June 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

true that, they should never have a dmg reduction vs both casters and melee.

While they shouldn't have it, they do need it unless they decide to give sps some type of defensive cd on a short cd. I do agree that'd overall be better by miles.

Edited by Virent, 21 June 2013 - 10:26 AM.

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#45 Athená

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:29 AM

Removing NS for ferals I can understand, forcing them to hardcast cyclone is just the biggest joke ever.
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#46 Tsx

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:50 AM

View PostVirent, on 21 June 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

While they shouldn't have it, they do need it unless they decide to give sps some type of defensive cd on a short cd. I do agree that'd overall be better by miles.
because nobody else has spell dmg reduction.simple as that.

#47 Hofflerand

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:54 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 21 June 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Scare Beast and Revive Pet are both nature and interrupting either will lock out the Hunter's nature school.
Touche. :D However, locking one of those out won't stop you from using Disengage and rooting your enemies. There's no point to tell us the root is a nature spell unless it's going to be a poison dispel type. Then again, Blizzard doesn't always follow logic. This is definitely my last post on Narrow Escape. :rolleyes:

I like the buff to Hamstring because most snares are so trivially applied nowadays, but those to Shield Wall and Spell Reflect strike me as a little silly. I get that warriors could use the help atm, but what ever happened to trading offense for defense -- what's next, mages can cast while Ice Blocked and Divine Shield no longer reduces damage? If someone hasn't played a warrior before and doesn't want to bother learning how to play it properly, I bet he could add Shield Wall to his almighty Swifty macro of Recklessness-Avatar-Skull Banner and still do well. Isn't it nice how all those 3 min CD's line up?

I'm happy for warrior buffs, and in a way I'm glad clunky shield swapping has been removed seeing as how it was never implemented into the game very well, but in a perfect world (of Warcraft) the devs would stop dumbing things down. Remember when warriors had to properly utilize Shield Block instead of Die by the Sword? When I played against warrior teams in WotLK with my own warrior comp, my partner would outplay his fellow classmates so hard that I felt like I was being carried. Now if he came back to play MoP, I'm not sure that would be possible anymore.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm picking on warriors because I do realize every class has been dumbed down. This just seems like the final nail in the coffin for the way this class used to play and personally I think that sucks. Ah well, here's to warrior buffs and hopefully next xpac the devs can find a way to add some skill back into arena. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

#48 Djandawg

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:05 AM

View PostBraindance, on 21 June 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

It's around 14%. Armor was a joke in wrath not in cata.

This is the right direction - casters should be fragile and rely on widening the gap between them and melee, not passive damage reduction. Besides, you don't have to leave shadowform nearly as often as in previous expansions.

You could use a short cd defensive however, like a mini self heal every 1 min or so.

They redesigned every melee in a way that they can deal with mage mobility, so they gave them stuff like: new root breakers and/or freedoms/sprints, new/buffed gap closers, their own root spells / disorients, second stuns and additional interrupts.
As a result other casters get locked down by a single melee, if a secondary melee is on you, mathematically there is no casting window. It is just not possible anymore.
That's why these changes are so bad,at least the guy who couldn't escape melee was taking less damage.

Edited by Djandawg, 21 June 2013 - 12:50 PM.


#49 Virent

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:40 PM

View PostYarmyxx, on 21 June 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

because nobody else has spell dmg reduction.simple as that.

And everything else has miles more defensive cds and miles better mobility.
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#50 Isumi

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:05 PM

View PostYarmyxx, on 21 June 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

because nobody else has spell dmg reduction.simple as that.

are u srs? of course nobody has this dmg reduction, cause no other caster has such a bad mobility against enemy casters

#51 Capstone

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:31 PM

View PostAthená, on 21 June 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Removing NS for ferals I can understand, forcing them to hardcast cyclone is just the biggest joke ever.
how horrible

#52 Unappealing

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:43 PM

came to read mage buffs, left disappointed

#53 Pradafiend

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:33 PM

View PostAthená, on 21 June 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Removing NS for ferals I can understand, forcing them to hardcast cyclone is just the biggest joke ever.

lol

#54 Athená

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:35 PM

View PostCapstone, on 21 June 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

how horrible

I dont actually play with a feral but I guess its not for everybody to show some empathy and think about buffs and nerfs objectively.
I guess people like you wont be happy untill your class towers above everyone elses.

edit: checked class, wasnt surprised.

Edited by Athená, 21 June 2013 - 10:36 PM.

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#55 Capstone

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:00 PM

View PostAthená, on 21 June 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

I dont actually play with a feral but I guess its not for everybody to show some empathy and think about buffs and nerfs objectively.
I guess people like you wont be happy untill your class towers above everyone elses.

edit: checked class, wasnt surprised.
lol wtf

#56 amaixliu

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:18 PM

View PostAthená, on 21 June 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

I dont actually play with a feral but I guess its not for everybody to show some empathy and think about buffs and nerfs objectively.
I guess people like you wont be happy untill your class towers above everyone elses.

edit: checked class, wasnt surprised.
you gave no reasoning for why that nerf is horrible, you just said it's "the biggest joke ever" with no support whatsoever, why would anyone just blindly agree with you when many ferals asked specifically for this change? i distinctly remember datah saying they need to take clone off PS and remove its CD a month or two ago, which is EXACTLY what they just did

#57 Athená

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:33 PM

View Postamaixliu, on 21 June 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

you gave no reasoning for why that nerf is horrible, you just said it's "the biggest joke ever" with no support whatsoever, why would anyone just blindly agree with you when many ferals asked specifically for this change? i distinctly remember datah saying they need to take clone off PS and remove its CD a month or two ago, which is EXACTLY what they just did

With the amount of interrupts currently in the game, the 20 yard range on cyclone and the fact ferals are already sometimes subject to being trained will make it quite hard to get a usefull clone on a healer with half a braincell.

What people seem to keep forgetting is that ferals have been fine with instant clone for ages, only when their damage became more notable did people start complaining about it.

Edited by Athená, 21 June 2013 - 11:38 PM.

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#58 fant0m8

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:21 AM

View PostAthená, on 21 June 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

With the amount of interrupts currently in the game, the 20 yard range on cyclone and the fact ferals are already sometimes subject to being trained will make it quite hard to get a usefull clone on a healer with half a braincell.

What people seem to keep forgetting is that ferals have been fine with instant clone for ages, only when their damage became more notable did people start complaining about it.

TBH it's always been an absurd ability. It was utterly ridiculous before it had a cooldown, and not much better even with one. Like you said, it was only acceptable when they didn't have very high damage (and when less people played feral period).

And the fact of the matter is that their damage IS "notable" right now, so the combination is too much. Which would you rather they lose, damage or instant clone? Hint: Damage isn't going to happen because all the PVE heroes would go bonkers if Blizz nerfed damage on anyone except the very best class of X patch.

Ferals are no more trained than anyone else in this game, that's no excuse to give them such a braindead CC.
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#59 amaixliu

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:09 AM

View PostAthená, on 21 June 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

With the amount of interrupts currently in the game, the 20 yard range on cyclone and the fact ferals are already sometimes subject to being trained will make it quite hard to get a usefull clone on a healer with half a braincell.

What people seem to keep forgetting is that ferals have been fine with instant clone for ages, only when their damage became more notable did people start complaining about it.
thank you for your reasoning. i don't agree that the change is a joke, but i think the range should be increased and maybe allow PS to make clone castable while in shapeshift

your point that instant clone only became a problem when their damage got better doesn't really support your opinion either. it only proves that their cc + their damage together is too much. ferals have good damage, good cc, and by far the best mobility. they can't have all 3. so if not cc, which one do you think should have been nerfed?

edit: http://us.battle.net...04533?page=4#66 all hail god king datah

Edited by amaixliu, 22 June 2013 - 03:26 AM.


#60 Virent

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:49 AM

They can just make predatory swiftness give clone a 0.5 second cast time. That way it'll be actually stoppable (pretty easily seeing as you'd be even able to predict it by them getting a proc) and it wouldn't be overpowered.
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