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#21

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:24 AM

View PostSleiyn, on 19 June 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

ive hit the damn target dummies over and over testing everything on my rogue and realize theyve had so much changes since the vanilla days


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#22 clusky

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:17 PM

Got a few ideas I think would solve a few problems

Baseline Shadowstep, 20 sec cd, back on prep.  In its place on the talent tree add a "your shadowstep is now usable whilst rooted" talent.

Lower the damage of poisons for sub and combat and in turn buff the damage of the combo point builders, net result is same damage in a PvE environment as well as making rogue damage less "passive" and more interesting to play.

For sub add a passive talent that increases the crit chance of your backstab and ambush but only against stunned targets, this will have little to no implications for pve but will help the pvp side a lot.

Buff recup to 5% leave glove bonus as is, change the glyph to "reduces all damage taken by 6% while Recuperate is active." like the old talent from cata.

I would love to see hemo back on SV, but I Don't think they will due to the pve implications, they cant really put it as a 4 set pvp bonus as it only applies to one spec.

Edited by clusky, 20 June 2013 - 09:17 PM.

Clustercluck said:

I'm sure your university doesn't appreciate you bloodlusting on their pianos

Kelarm said:

It's like trying to ride 3 horses with one ass.

#23 Sleiyn

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:51 PM

View PostMazdak, on 20 June 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

ive hit the damn target dummies over and over testing everything on my rogue and realize theyve had so much changes since the vanilla days





yea.. i didnt really explain that well at all apologies. i should have said that i was testing against similiar geared marksman hunters and dps monks, they out dpsed me by around 20k sustained damage on the dummies without major cooldowns, coordinated through skype and everything just messin around really. didnt mean to post useless words, my bad.

as for my other bad of not really getting specific on chanegs i think should be made, call me crazy, but i feel like they should nerf the ratio of the actual move's damage slighlty for opener moves such as ambush, killing spree or even the skills that give you buffs for a few seconds when out of stealth for the sub tree, and make up for it by increasing the ratio of the hemo, sinister strike, mutilate, and the white damage regular hits a tad, or even poison damage a little, NOT buff the major burst moves such as eviscerate, dispatch, ambush.

for example, for sinister strike at lvl 90 : "An instant strike that causes 222 damage in addition to 145% of your normal weapon damage." why not make it something like causes 222 dmg in addition to 160% weapon damage while nerfing a % of ambush, killing spree, etc. ofcourse, these are just random % im just throwing out there, but with testing we could take spome damage from burst and put it into sustained damaging moves. In all honestly tho, i dont think we need too much burst nerfed because our burst is ok where it is in my opinion. NOT THE BEST, not the worst. but again the reason why i brought it up is for a small trade IF i had to make the choice of burst > sustained, i want them closer together to allow for me to actually go toe to toe with equally skilled players.

#24 Sykoh

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:55 PM

either give us mobility OR sustained damage imo
not these garbage recuperate changes....dafuqmang

#25 Sleiyn

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:57 PM

ah! also one other thing, i realize blizzard is having a really hard time trying to balance pvp while balancing PVE, why not just mak ethem seperate worlds, for example, if i enter in an instance certain skill ratios are present, while entering pvp only certain skills can be used, and ratios change.( although i know its already the case with things like DK's undead army in arenas ) this woul dbe the case to best try and balance pvp , and then try and have seperate things for balancing PVE. the big gray area i see in this is world pvp, but what i would do is just make it to where if ur pvp flagged, then it switches to pvp skill ratios. By ratios i mean like saying when im inside an instance my Sinister strike shows as " "An instant strike that causes 222 damage in addition to 145% of your normal weapon damage."
but when im flagged for pvp it changes to "An instant strike that causes 222 damage in addition to 160% of your normal weapon damage."
Basically i still think it would be a long process to try and balance everything, but this way it would be easier since it would take the two mixing worlds out of the equation ( PVE vs PVP ) and treat them as seperate things in its entirety, ( which it is, )

#26 ohnoes

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:15 AM

cloak and dagger should be passive with how it works now

put hemo dot on sanguinary veins

feint duration 3 seconds, glyph removed and usable while stunned

#27

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:43 AM

View PostKPul, on 19 June 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Make shuriken toss baseline, I dont think its damage is overpowered anymore and it will give us something to do since most casters have the ability to do roots on roots on roots

Replace shuriken toss with hit and run in the talent tree.   Assists with mobility / survivablity depending on how you use it.

And maybe a crit passive for our positional requirement moves.


Most classes rely on kiting as a way of survival, giving you shuriken toss baseline is negletcing that way of the class, meaning you will always do dmg, even tho the caster cant (during stealth openers stun/garrote and cloak(s)   ) don think this is a good idea at all.. im sorry

#28 fant0m8

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:46 AM

View PostReirei, on 19 June 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

warrior was just an example, idk about warriors beng shit on or not, it is different story, but you can't deny that their moblity is really good for melee class


Of course Warriors have better mobility than Rogues. Do you understand the difference between a 70% slow and a 50% slow? How about the number of stuns/disables that you have compared to warriors? Your interrupt lasts longer too.

If you want every tool that X class has, you have to be prepared to give up your tools that X class doesn't have. Otherwise we end up with the current state of the game, where everyone has everything and the game feels like zergy as shit.

Different classes are different, and they should remain that way.
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#29 Sleiyn

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:56 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 21 June 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

Of course Warriors have better mobility than Rogues. Do you understand the difference between a 70% slow and a 50% slow? How about the number of stuns/disables that you have compared to warriors? Your interrupt lasts longer too.

If you want every tool that X class has, you have to be prepared to give up your tools that X class doesn't have. Otherwise we end up with the current state of the game, where everyone has everything and the game feels like zergy as shit.

Different classes are different, and they should remain that way.

well, since everyone has everything, dont you think there should be balance? the uniqueness of the rogue class is basically all lost now with the exception of shroud for everyone in the start of arenas. if thats the only "perk" for rogues, id be happier without it and just have myself in stealth only, like how a hunter can , and a druid.. and a temporary priest stealth, etc... again stating that since everyone has the same abilities and cc's so on and so on, why not push now to balance the damages and burst possibilities of each class. to where when say a warrior and rogue pops burst CDs, they do the same dmg output, non cds and regular uptime - same damage as well. MIGHT as wellllllllll since they already took that route. just about every class has the same thing a rogues got but better.

#30 korzal

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:01 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 21 June 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

Do you understand the difference between a 70% slow and a 50% slow?
we can't shiv crippling and don't take the glyph, so no

Edited by korzal, 21 June 2013 - 03:12 AM.


#31 FuguFish

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:39 PM

View Postohnoes, on 21 June 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

feint duration 3 seconds, glyph removed and usable while stunned

PLEASE stop asking for this. What's the point of a mechanic like this? I don't want to be another mongoloid class using defensives in stuns because it feels good predicting a swap, just make it so that when I predict one I can live through it.

View Postfant0m8, on 21 June 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

Of course Warriors have better mobility than Rogues. Do you understand the difference between a 70% slow and a 50% slow? How about the number of stuns/disables that you have compared to warriors? Your interrupt lasts longer too.

I thought about having 70% slow again and I don't see why people are so against it, other than the fact that it kinda sucks to waddle.

In the current state of the game pretty much every class has a slow (I was so surprised when I started mop that rets kited me so easily). Rogues no longer have a baseline ranged snare, and has the most positional requirements of any class. It would certainly help us stick onto our target when we connect.

Many classes have freedom effects/snare effects/knockbacks. It seems silly that a backpedalling hunter can kite me indefinitely whilst doing top damage, and that rogue talents are honestly so shit and linear when DKs have something as amazing as death's advance but no one takes it.

#32 Reirei

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:39 PM

View Postfant0m8, on 21 June 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

Of course Warriors have better mobility than Rogues. Do you understand the difference between a 70% slow and a 50% slow? How about the number of stuns/disables that you have compared to warriors? Your interrupt lasts longer too.

If you want every tool that X class has, you have to be prepared to give up your tools that X class doesn't have. Otherwise we end up with the current state of the game, where everyone has everything and the game feels like zergy as shit.

Different classes are different, and they should remain that way.

you seriously believe at this state of game that rogues have the most "disables"? you know how many tools other classes have while still having as many or more effective "disables" than rogues? is it a joke? really?

"Otherwise we end up with the current state of the game, where everyone has everything and the game feels like zergy as shit."

because we aren't already?

here are 2 way to make rogues competitive at this point:

1. nerf every other class to rogue level, bring back classes differences
2. buff rogues to other classes level


Take a guess which way is more realistic and would cause least QQ from dragonslayers?

Lastly, did you seriously just bring up 70% snare? I promise you in 99,9% of the time you fought a rogue this expansion you were never slowed by 70%. Take a guess why? You don't know? Look it up before you bring up arguments that don't make any sense or have anything to do with reality.  Ty.

P.S. i really really really doubt that you have any clue how the mechanics look like atm since you apprently didn't play since season 8 so can you please refrain from posting such arguments when it is obvious that you don't know how the game works anymore. Ty.
shut up pvp guy

#33 limek

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:39 AM

View Postclusky, on 20 June 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

For sub add a passive talent that increases the crit chance of your backstab and ambush but only against stunned targets, this will have little to no implications for pve but will help the pvp side a lot.
This is genius.
pls more burst during shadow dance pls doing nothing outside of it pls


PLS




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