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About the recent Fel flame change


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#21 Capers

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:26 PM

Warlocks have been playing without casting while moving up until MoP so definitely not. And KJC can still be used situationally, which promotes more skilled play instead of just running around and casting fears into everyone. Only dot you are casting is UA and it's like 1,2 sec cast so not very hard to apply. Only real effect that losing this is that you can't chase people around corners and keep channeling grasp / drain and casting fear from behind LoS. I would rather take passive 10% damage for my dots instead of KJC any day, but I guess that's personal preference.


The difference is that the game has changed over time too though. Locks are going to be like spriests, just trained until they cry, then die.
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#22 NiNLeX

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:56 PM

There are 2 more specs, not just affliction.

Yes locks didn't move and cast before, but game was different before also. They had much much better survivability and could just stand there and take a beating while doing dmg, which is not the case now.

KJC is op when you look at just the ability, but when I look at the whole 3v3 arena game, i don't see how the locks will be good as they are now in 5.3. Even affliction is almost great at the moment, and you can play all 3 specs and all 3 are very much viable.

Locks, for me look like a most balanced class in 5.3, when you look at the big picture, even if they do the channel and hide behind pillar shit that annoys me as a rogue :)

I'm afraid in 5.4 they will go back to "blah", I hope I am totally wrong :)


Kinda agree with your points, but even though destro is still viable, I think affli is superior after 10% buff to our dots in 5.3. Destruction is ofc going to take the biggest hit from KJC nerf, but I think destro is in already a little weak state, because they nerfed chaos bolt damage in 5.3. Sustained is ok, but chaos bolt hits only for 50-75k without cd's and since it's got 2,5 sec cast time, I don't find myself getting it off unless we can have cross cc going.

For demo KJC change doesn't actually matter, because demo locks take mannoroth's fury. But mannoroth's fury is also getting same treatment as KJC so I don't think demo locks still exist in 5.4.

I was only talking about affliction, because that is the spec most locks are playing now and with KJC nerfs I think destro would require some buffs (like chaos bolt cast time reduced to 1,75-2 secs and maybe small damage buff?) to be more competitive in 3v3. Nerf to mannoroth's fury will possibly remove demo locks from PvP, because big part of their pressure comes from their aoe abilities.

Of course, anything can still happen and this is just presenting possibilities and views of the current state of locks.
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#23 Euerfeldi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:51 PM

We're going to try keeping Fel Flame as an instant, slightly buffed, with no DoT refeshing. Intent wasn't to nerf Fel Flame on top of nerfing Kil'Jaeden's Cunning. As long as locks don't become backpedaling Fel Flame spamming machines, we think this change should work.

Quoted from GC-Twitter
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#24 Itha

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:58 PM

thats better but still missing fel flame utility as dot refresher. hope they buff the dots accordingly and not for 1-2 % to make up for this since it will reduce dot uptime a lot.
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#25 Snackumz

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 10:17 PM

what they could do is trash felflame, and bring back a shadowbolt like mechanic with nightfall that refreshes ua or some shit? and make MG refresh corruption. they could do a lot of things considering they are making pretty big changes with this.
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#26 Polygonzz

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 10:57 PM

warlocks have been bitching for less damage on MG and more to dots the entire expansion and they listened

just gotta wait and see how it pans out, way too early to tell since the changes to passive damage reduction seem drastic

KJC still short cd... not completely useless
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#27 Thaya

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:29 AM

No idea how this will work out in terms of class power, but I'll REALLY miss Fel Flame DoT refreshing. This feels like a core mechanic being taken away.
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#28 osskar

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:51 AM

they should make Fel Flame to do significant dmg and they should leave it like in patch note ( locking both schools ) It will make fake casting more important
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#29 Thaya

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:50 AM

There's a new blue post (see mmo-c frontpage): they're literally going to buff its damage at the cost of the DoT refresh.

This makes sense in PvE - the refresh and stat re-scan actually works against you most of the time, to the point that it can be better to not cast anything than cast the spell that we're supposed to cast on the move. But this is such a horrible change in PvP quality of life. Maybe we can get a glyph to get the old functionality and damage?
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#30 Ansi

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:21 PM

I don't mind the KJC nerf, but making a 90 talent, that's basically just Spiritwalker's Grace/Ice Floes, seems very homogeneous.

It makes sense that they don't want to remove warlocks ability to cast while moving, since they only just introduced the ability with MOP.

But I think they should be more creative, instead of just copying Spiritwalker's Grace and Ice Floes.

KJC could even just be a few select abilities while moving - like none-cc/none-channeled abilities.
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#31 Draintain

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:43 PM

The difference is that the game has changed over time too though. Locks are going to be like spriests, just trained until they cry, then die.

I never specced into KJC the whole expansion and I'm doing perfectly fine...you just need to get used to kiting a certain way.
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#32 Railander

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:24 PM

I never specced into KJC the whole expansion and I'm doing perfectly fine

i imagine you'd be doing exceptionally well if you were using it this major patch then
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#33 Nemlol

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:25 PM

I would be really fine with this change if they buffed dmg by a larger margin and made it cost less mana, what else are we gonna do against totems?
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#34 Euerfeldi

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 02:34 AM

They changed their minds again:

In a future PTR build, Kil'Jaeden's Cunning will once again be a passive effect. Selecting it will allow the Warlock to cast Malefic Grasp, Shadow Bolt, and Incinerate while moving. There is no penalty, so you'll be able to move at full speed.
[...]

With this change, we can make the "penalty" of taking KJC that you don't have Mannoroth's Fury or Archimonde's Vengeance, which should result in more damage output in cases where movement is less critical (and we're working on some changes to Archimonde's Vengeance that should help with that). We're also still planning on buffing Fel Flame in a way that helps lower the impact to mobility caused by choosing one of those talents over Kil'Jaeden's Cunning, without nerfing it for PvP purposes.
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#35 fant0m8

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:07 AM

They changed their minds again:

In a future PTR build, Kil'Jaeden's Cunning will once again be a passive effect. Selecting it will allow the Warlock to cast Malefic Grasp, Shadow Bolt, and Incinerate while moving. There is no penalty, so you'll be able to move at full speed.
[...]

With this change, we can make the "penalty" of taking KJC that you don't have Mannoroth's Fury or Archimonde's Vengeance, which should result in more damage output in cases where movement is less critical (and we're working on some changes to Archimonde's Vengeance that should help with that). We're also still planning on buffing Fel Flame in a way that helps lower the impact to mobility caused by choosing one of those talents over Kil'Jaeden's Cunning, without nerfing it for PvP purposes.


Hmmm. It sucks to lose fear while moving, but I think that without the movespeed penalty and the addition of shadowflame or death coil this version can work very nicely for Locks. I'm sure it will get changed again though, Blizzard is being very fickle with this spell.

(Inb4 they buff one of the other talents on that tier to something absurdly good and it becomes mandatory.)
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#36 Ansi

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:26 AM

KJC could even just be a few select abilities while moving.


They changed their minds again:

In a future PTR build, Kil'Jaeden's Cunning will once again be a passive effect. Selecting it will allow the Warlock to cast Malefic Grasp, Shadow Bolt, and Incinerate while moving. There is no penalty, so you'll be able to move at full speed.


Seems they're reading the forums :-)
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#37 KnnadRa

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 05:05 AM

Don't give a fuck about KJC. The only thing that will annoy me is manually recasting dots instead of using fel flame to refresh, not sure why they changed that.

One of you imba Blizzcon R1 glads explain the rational of this change to me.
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#38 Persephones

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:14 PM

Fuck. I would rather have KJC on a 10 sec duration/60 sec CD for when you need to land that clutch fear. Fuck casting MG on the move, plus it'd reward good usage instead of just another passive.
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The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.


#39 Nadagast

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:44 AM

I have a feeling that more changes may be coming and that everyone should not freak out too much... :)
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#40 Spreadlegs

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:09 AM

Not being able to run whilst casting a pet is what bugs me more than fear.
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