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1000% damage increase buff on PTR

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#81 Virent

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:15 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 19 June 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

I don't think so, I remember them deterring at 4k hp.

Maybe they did most healing and it's based on that? Wouldn't surprise me.
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#82 pyrellael_3428244

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:52 AM

I think that's a terrible design, if you want to avoid draws don't give some random mouth breathers the ability to turtle up and then turn around and global you when they decide, oh wait shatterplay exists nvm

#83 Djandawg

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:58 AM

View PostVirent, on 19 June 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Maybe they did most healing and it's based on that? Wouldn't surprise me.
Yeah.. it's kinda hard to kill resto druid teams in 2s at the moment with genesis / shroom changes, they get a lay on hands on very short cooldown, healing way too much.

Edited by Djandawg, 19 June 2013 - 07:59 AM.


#84 Hofflerand

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:39 AM

I guess the thinking behind the random factor is to stop certain comps from abusing the feature, from turtling every game for the win.

You know what would be better than this? If healers ran out of mana. In TBC (iirc -- it was so long ago that I may have donned a pair of rose-colored glasses), healers actually went OOM. I wasn't a fan of mana drain effects, but mana pools weren't so deep in general. Then in WotLK's S6 and S7, I definitely remember healers going OOM. It wasn't until S8 with high ilvls, PvE trinkets, and wizard cleaves that healers stopped running out of mana and the game got boring.

I'd like for sustained pressure and intelligent swaps over the course of a game to once again be as valid a strategy as burst damage. Burst certainly has its place, but when it's the way to play the game it promotes a very unskillful style of play. First, it often doesn't matter if a target is at full health -- so long as you have your burst CD's and the right CC, you had better kill the other team before they kill you. What ever happened to dropping a target to 50-75% before blowing your load? Second and perhaps more importantly, the proper way to play nowadays is to tunnel vision. If damage over the course of a match doesn't really matter, then why switch between all three targets and go through the trouble of forcing multiple defensive CD's?

Consider if mana was important and burst wasn't almost always the way to win. You could force the priest's Dispersion, switch immediately to the mage to force a Block, eventually force a second Block...oh, the mage is far away and has several shields/HoT's. If pressure and mana were more of a factor, you could switch back to the priest even if Dispersion was back up because it would tax the healer. Try that on live and not only does it accomplish little, it also lets the opposing team feels safe to fuc*ing kill you. You're limited to either sticking to the mage even though it feels stupid or maybe switching to the healer (hell, you prob shoulda stuck to the priest to start with).

The devs are afraid of matches going on forever and would rather lean towards a zergy game (2 min duration) than a turtley game (15 min+). That's why I'm amazed that all they design around is burst when sustained pressure over the course of several minutes used to be a very valid strat. Why not replace "The Crowd Choose You!!!" with a debuff that activates at 10-15 min and limits healer sustain? Or it could be like battle fatigue and be less harsh but active from the start. Remember when melee cleaves without a BM Hunter were a thing?

#85 FuguFish

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:33 PM

View PostHofflerand, on 19 June 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

You know what would be better than this? If healers ran out of mana.

I'm sceptical that this would work. Hybrids are healing for more than ever and no mana users go oom at all. If everyone was more mana dependent, the game would definitely be a lot better.

#86 freshfreefly

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:52 PM

View PostHofflerand, on 19 June 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I guess the thinking behind the random factor is to stop certain comps from abusing the feature, from turtling every game for the win.

You know what would be better than this? If healers ran out of mana. In TBC (iirc -- it was so long ago that I may have donned a pair of rose-colored glasses), healers actually went OOM. I wasn't a fan of mana drain effects, but mana pools weren't so deep in general. Then in WotLK's S6 and S7, I definitely remember healers going OOM. It wasn't until S8 with high ilvls, PvE trinkets, and wizard cleaves that healers stopped running out of mana and the game got boring.

I'd like for sustained pressure and intelligent swaps over the course of a game to once again be as valid a strategy as burst damage. Burst certainly has its place, but when it's the way to play the game it promotes a very unskillful style of play. First, it often doesn't matter if a target is at full health -- so long as you have your burst CD's and the right CC, you had better kill the other team before they kill you. What ever happened to dropping a target to 50-75% before blowing your load? Second and perhaps more importantly, the proper way to play nowadays is to tunnel vision. If damage over the course of a match doesn't really matter, then why switch between all three targets and go through the trouble of forcing multiple defensive CD's?

Consider if mana was important and burst wasn't almost always the way to win. You could force the priest's Dispersion, switch immediately to the mage to force a Block, eventually force a second Block...oh, the mage is far away and has several shields/HoT's. If pressure and mana were more of a factor, you could switch back to the priest even if Dispersion was back up because it would tax the healer. Try that on live and not only does it accomplish little, it also lets the opposing team feels safe to fuc*ing kill you. You're limited to either sticking to the mage even though it feels stupid or maybe switching to the healer (hell, you prob shoulda stuck to the priest to start with).

The devs are afraid of matches going on forever and would rather lean towards a zergy game (2 min duration) than a turtley game (15 min+). That's why I'm amazed that all they design around is burst when sustained pressure over the course of several minutes used to be a very valid strat. Why not replace "The Crowd Choose You!!!" with a debuff that activates at 10-15 min and limits healer sustain? Or it could be like battle fatigue and be less harsh but active from the start. Remember when melee cleaves without a BM Hunter were a thing?

priests still go oom

View PostDillypoo, on 03 August 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

GUYS GUYS GUYS IM RUNNING IN I GOT A FEAR OFF THAT!!! Oh wait Tremor... OK OK OK Guys I got another full fear off that!!! Aw shit nimble, OK GUYS GUYS GUYS I SWEAR I HAVE A FULL FEAR! Fuck nevermind... Will. OK OK OK NOW THIS FEAR IS FULL!!! Shit he has tremor back up omg... OK OK OK NOW I HAVE A FULL FEAR ITS FULL KILL KILL Oh whoops... prep tremor... Damnit, I got a full fear this time!!! Oh... he trinketed it... next one should be full... FULL FEAR!!! He has nimble back up WTF.

#87 zajklon

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:53 PM

View PostFuguFish, on 19 June 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

I'm sceptical that this would work. Hybrids are healing for more than ever and no mana users go oom at all. If everyone was more mana dependent, the game would definitely be a lot better.
no because then double healer melee would dominate again.

#88 zaeya

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:22 PM

View Postfreshfreefly, on 19 June 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

priests still go oom

I've never gone oom in 2s after getting full malevolent gear. Gemmed full int. O_o

#89 Throron

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:33 PM

just lower manareg

#90 Hofflerand

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:31 PM

View PostFuguFish, on 19 June 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

I'm sceptical that this would work. Hybrids are healing for more than ever and no mana users go oom at all. If everyone was more mana dependent, the game would definitely be a lot better.
I can't seriously see pures getting elbowed out of arena by hybrids because it's never happened before, even when healers could OOM. Off-healing is great utility, but a 3's team with an OOM healer and a hybrid dedicating all his time and resorces to healing is on the back foot and unlikely to win a match. Ret for example can only cast three or so FoL's before having to wait for mana to recharge and holy power fueled WoG's kind of suck. Meanwhile it's dishing out very little damage.

Pures shouldn't be more mana dependent either. It's cool when casters have to occasionally manage mana like Shadow with Disperse, but that's as far as it should go. Wizard cleaves have been off and on problematic for the past few xpacs, but I don't think regen is the way to solve that. I just don't like the idea of DPS being on a time limit.

View PostThroron, on 19 June 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

just lower manareg
It really is that simple. Arena matches last too long...

Blizzard's solution: Dump all your CC on the healer and 100-0 the DPS.
Common sense: Burst is one way to win, but don't make it over the top. Matches shouldn't last longer than 10-15 min because by then healers should be totally OOM. Therefore pressure and lots of target swapping is actually a viable strategy.

#91 stalebagel

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:06 PM

probably my most bias issue but i strongly believe that arena should be won through coordinated CC and burst. I don't believe in a meta revolving around maintaining your PvE rotation so that eventually the opposing team's healer might oom because it's boring and quite frankly a skilless playstyle.
www.twitch.tv/wowser8

#92 zaeya

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

View PostVirent, on 19 June 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Maybe they did most healing and it's based on that? Wouldn't surprise me.

It's possible, but that just seems dumb.

Edited by zaeya, 19 June 2013 - 08:04 PM.


#93 Drazziefresh

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:09 PM

well time to bust out double healer and hope my team gets the buff
pee in her butt br0

#94 Hofflerand

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:15 PM

View Poststalebagel, on 19 June 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

probably my most bias issue but i strongly believe that arena should be won through coordinated CC and burst. I don't believe in a meta revolving around maintaining your PvE rotation so that eventually the opposing team's healer might oom because it's boring and quite frankly a skilless playstyle.
eh, both styles can be boring and skilless. Just look at MoP which revolves around CC and burst -- worst expansion of arena by far IMO. Now I'll grant you the style you enjoy was once a lot more fun, but I hope you'll rethink your opinion on winning through pressure. It goes a lot deeper than "maintaining your PvE rotation."

Either way, matches shouldn't last 25 min. They should end within ~15 and the result shouldn't be a draw or a randomly selected winner.

Edited by Hofflerand, 19 June 2013 - 10:17 PM.


#95 Covlol

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:21 PM

Battlegrounds and Arenas

Arenas

  • For Arena matches lasting longer than 15 minutes, one of the teams will receive a buff called Posted Image The Crowd Chose You!!! that increases damage, critical strike chance, stealth detection, and reduces damage taken. The buff is awarded based on the following criteria.

    • Team with the largest number of players alive.

    • Team that brought an enemy player closest to death (lowest health)


    OoO!

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Lvl 1 Dk Legend Covlol

#96 Marshmellow

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:30 PM

View PostCovlol, on 20 June 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

Battlegrounds and Arenas

Arenas
  • For Arena matches lasting longer than 15 minutes, one of the teams will receive a buff called Posted Image The Crowd Chose You!!! that increases damage, critical strike chance, stealth detection, and reduces damage taken. The buff is awarded based on the following criteria.
    • Team with the largest number of players alive.
    • Team that brought an enemy player closest to death (lowest health)
    OoO!

I hope this only applies to 2's

#97 Pidgeotto

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:30 PM

They need AT's buff, This is just completely retarded.
hi

#98 Hackattack3

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:32 PM

View Poststalebagel, on 19 June 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

probably my most bias issue but i strongly believe that arena should be won through coordinated CC and burst. I don't believe in a meta revolving around maintaining your PvE rotation so that eventually the opposing team's healer might oom because it's boring and quite frankly a skilless playstyle.

What about coordinated CC and pve rotations to keep up pressure to OOM a healer?

The coordinated cc is to PREVENT burst (instead of set it up in your case) and keep damage rolling.

What's the difference?

#99 Pidgeotto

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:43 PM

This will just promote comps that can consistently CC/turtle to get some1 to 50% then turtle/cc until the buff. Worst idea ever.
hi

#100 Hofflerand

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:08 AM

This isn't how I'd go about it, but I'm glad arena matches will end at the 15 min mark and I'm sure the solution could've been worse. I like that it's at least based on whoever was previously the closest to killing someone. I don't expect teams to drop an opponent down to 8% at the 5 min mark and then turtle for the next 10 min, but I could be wrong.

Next expansion I'd like to see healers actually OOM around 10-15 min. That'd be a more natural way to ensure games end in a timely fashion.





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