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#41 Djandawg

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 04:46 AM

View PostTteSPORTSDoomsen, on 16 June 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Please someone do this as the POV of a Mage against PHD / Ret Hunter. I wanna see how many seconds the Mage survives.
Fair enough.
Assuming team 2 has a clue, they will hide/kite a bit then priest team will connect. Typically it looks like this:
-Priest : No shells
-Dps 1: 5-6 seconds left when he connects
-Dps 2: 10 seconds left when he connects

We are talking about priest/hunter here, since anything else is not realistic, that 5-6 sec remaining shield should only be problematic if the enemy tries to kill dps1 in first 5 seconds of the combat.
I would like to see the enemy team spending first 3 globals on dpsing instead of peeling versus hunter teams and see how that works out for them, but I guess anyone knows the outcome of doing that.
Also note that, it's ineffective and easy avoidable if you don't play rushdown comps and  even not too good for some rushdown comps because it unstealths you, helps the other team getting in combat or it's useless because you have 2 people cc'd and 3rd getting dps'd during a stun during the opener so your team takes no damage.
I think if they fix off combat battle fatigue shell issue, it won't look bad, that said Divine Insight change is bullshit.

Edited by Djandawg, 16 June 2013 - 05:01 AM.


#42 Seu

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:54 AM

View PostHäxantutto, on 14 June 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:


I feel like disc got so many new things in MoP and atm its stupid how much stuff they have...


rofl

i have like 10 abilities now and at the start of every game i have to look at the enemy comp and choose my remaining 4-5 abilities via talents and glyphs... the majority of which are abilities i used to just have fulltime access to.

mop is a game where good mechanics and sustained damage are more useless than ever, and priests are easy to kill if you know what you are doing.

in 2s i find dpriests easy to kill on my ret paladin, but it just comes down to playing correctly. if you are struggling to get shields down within 15 seconds (lol), just grab a healer with a purge and only use stuns when shield is down. if you land shockwave with a full ragebar and his shield down you can get pain sup, force trinket after in a similar manner, then just pop your oneshot when he has no shield no trink and no pain supp... this can take a while to set up sometimes but 2s is a travesty right now so that should be expected, i do this against disc on my ret paladin and regularly 100-0 them in hoj

#43

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:11 AM

Oh look, priests think they're fine. Just like ele shaman think they're fine, and hunters think they're fine, and mages have not once thought they needed nerfs, and rogues all thought they were fine in 5.2. EVERYONE IS ALWAYS BALANCED, you've merely become better players in s13.

Edited by Radejjj, 17 June 2013 - 08:13 AM.


#44 Filthpig

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:18 AM

Disc would be completely fine if they just removed Spirit Shell from the game. Disc Priests teams currently have double the starting health than teams without a disc have at the beginning of a match, and usually double the CC. Who are you trying to kid though, you ONLY see disc healers this season with the occasional resto druid. Balanced.

Edited by Filthpig, 17 June 2013 - 08:19 AM.


#45

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:17 AM

View PostTteSPORTSDoomsen, on 16 June 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Please someone do this as the POV of a Mage against PHD / Ret Hunter. I wanna see how many seconds the Mage survives.

i was going to do this actually, but i died before i could hit record :3, also blocked on 1% 3times in a row within 1second of "combat" from retris running in doing blind, with hunter silence shot backing up a poly or w/e on him :3

#46

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:18 AM

When a cleave comp works better with a priest than a pally you know something is wrong.

#47 saedia

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

IMO spirit shell should be something along the lines of : Your next Flash/greater/whatever fucking heal grants an absorb for double the amount it would heal,30sec CD. Would still allow for offensive play,while not letting your team go full mongo in the beginning

#48 dionim

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:12 PM

View Postsaedia, on 18 June 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

IMO spirit shell should be something along the lines of : Your next Flash/greater/whatever fucking heal grants an absorb for double the amount it would heal,30sec CD. Would still allow for offensive play,while not letting your team go full mongo in the beginning

I rather have it deleted and give us archangel usable as a cd!

#49 Deliriumz

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:36 PM

From a priest pov not really understanding why its so hard to wait out spirit shell before you pop big cds in opener? It doesn't last until destroyed, it just falls off after 15 seconds. I guess everybody posting is playing a mongoloid cleave that doesn't know what else to do but pop 1 shot first global. Not to mention, priests have to actually get casts off to stack shells and keep their team up in the game.. I see tons of top priests losing to random comps on stream all the time, I don't really see supreme dominance right now? It really seems like you guys are just finding something to complain about, rdruids are great on the ladder, and paladins, shamans, and monks are still pretty viable in the right comps..

Edited by Deliriumz, 18 June 2013 - 04:40 PM.


#50 hekumzx

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:44 PM

Disc is absolutely fucking retarded in 2s, my dog could play disc/x and win 50% of games with his paw and spacebar.

Not sure this whole god lord theory is worth fuck all in regards to 3s though

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#51 Deliriumz

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:48 PM

View PostHektiik, on 18 June 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Disc is absolutely fucking retarded in 2s, my dog could play disc/x and win 50% of games with his paw and spacebar.

Not sure this whole god lord theory is worth fuck all in regards to 3s though

Maybe that's my problem, maybe I'm arguing with 2's heros. Im talking about 3s. Don't come on arenajunkies and compain about 2s balance. Blizzard has said a thousand times that they are well aware 2s is not balanced which is why they don't reward titles anymore... Most teams never get through my absorbs in 2s, I agree. But it's a completely different story in high rated 3s.. Disc is strong but not unbeatable.. people are so whiny.

#52 Okoon

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:51 PM

You guys actually sound retarded, would you like all healers to be the same? Priests have always been the healers for comps reliant on openers, to give them an ability that makes their teams have even stronger openers sounds sensible to me.  It is how their mechanics work. Is it really that hard to wait out spirit shell, if they are charging in with it they are likely giving up position.  Also with necrotic buff priests are exceptionally weak vs any dk team because priests use absorbs and not as much heals, making necros retarded to heal through as a priest.
Please nerf rock, paper is fine; my reguards, scissor.

#53 Enim

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:52 PM

View PostDeliriumz, on 18 June 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

From a priest pov not really understanding why its so hard to wait out spirit shell before you pop big cds in opener? It doesn't last until destroyed, it just falls off after 15 seconds. I guess everybody posting is playing a mongoloid cleave that doesn't know what else to do but pop 1 shot first global.

Probably because every priest and his mother plays a hunter/x combo that forces a cd or three during that spirit shell regardless of how much the other team is trying to stall.

But honestly, priests are almost fine. I'm guessing most of the people posting here are suffering from playing against disc priest after disc priest in 2s. And yeah, they are OP in 2s. Then again there's nothing much to do about that.

Personally I'd say that removing psyfiend and replacing it with something less braindead would do good.

#54 Deliriumz

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:05 PM

View PostEnim, on 18 June 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Probably because every priest and his mother plays a hunter/x combo that forces a cd or three during that spirit shell regardless of how much the other team is trying to stall.

But honestly, priests are almost fine. I'm guessing most of the people posting here are suffering from playing against disc priest after disc priest in 2s. And yeah, they are OP in 2s. Then again there's nothing much to do about that.

Personally I'd say that removing psyfiend and replacing it with something less braindead would do good.

With the amount of cross cc hunter/disc/x has, I'm forcing the same cds in the opener with just a shield on everyone and no spirit shell. There's no way the other team can force you defensive in the opener through dmg instead of cc if you setup a proper opener. Someone will probably fire back at this one so I'm not denying that spirit shell helps if you let a priest stack full shields on everyone then open on your team.. but it's not insurmountable.

Edited by Deliriumz, 18 June 2013 - 05:07 PM.


#55 saedia

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:11 PM

Yeah, in 2s Dominate Mind is godly, in 3s? maaaybe against a mage team it could be useful, but psyfiend is much better, while in 2s psyfiend is really only useful against double wizard dps.

Quote

Personally I'd say that removing psyfiend and replacing it with something less braindead would do good.
I agree, we need something that we will actually cast, and not just use mindlessly on CD. Perhaps something that applies a slow on mind sear(would say SW:P, but that can be kept up way too easily)?

Quote

I rather have it deleted and give us archangel usable as a cd!

I agree, would be nice to benefit our direct healing, but I don't see blizz changing this because of lolpve

#56 fant0m8

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:45 PM

Personally I think if you can't force an opener before spirit shell falls off then you're pretty bad. Positioning doesn't matter because you have 650k HP.

And we're talking about Hunter/Melee/Disc, since when can melee not catch X class for an opener these days? Feral, Ret, DK all have great speed, great slows, and great gap closers. Hell, Rets and DKs even have a better mounted speed than everyone else.

Especially when they have a BM hunter charging in too, you can easily cover both sides of any pillar in arena within a few seconds. It's not like we're playing in BGs here, the maps are mostly small and quickly crossed on a mount.
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#57 Chazzwozzer

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:47 PM

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned focused will.  I realize that spirit shell is an obvious overpowered component with priests, so it gets the most complaints.  I think that the often suggested change to make it only usable in combat would solve the problem of spirit shell mongo strategies though.

On topic with focused will, the passive 30% damage reduction is a bit ridiculous.  I realize it doesn't have 100% uptime, but it pretty much is double stacked within a second after swapping to a disc priest,  I am also aware the priests have the lowest armor of all the healers, but they are easily the hardest to kill in 3's currently (with the exception of maybe monk, but there are no monks that queue on my bg so I can't compare).  

Perhaps it's just the comps that I play that struggle with kills on disc priests, but this trend seems to be consistent on streams that I've watched (dk's seem to be the only class for which killing disc is a viable strat).  In comps I play as dps, we only get kills on a disc priest if it is immediately after a void shift which leaves the priest with 25% health.  

If taking focused will away completely would ruin disc priests, then make it 15% perhaps.  I am not convinced that they even need 15% though.  Priests used to need the dmg reduction because they were the only healer that could not kite melee dps.  This is no longer the case though with the ability to fade off snares.  However, most disc priests don't feel the need to pick up the freedom because the speed increase is superior for landing fears, and they don't need a freedom to get away from dps because they are able to tank them easily.  Last thing that should be mentioned is that divine star is usable while locked out, which needs to be changed.

#58 Enim

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:56 PM

View PostDeliriumz, on 18 June 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

With the amount of cross cc hunter/disc/x has, I'm forcing the same cds in the opener with just a shield on everyone and no spirit shell. There's no way the other team can force you defensive in the opener through dmg instead of cc if you setup a proper opener. Someone will probably fire back at this one so I'm not denying that spirit shell helps if you let a priest stack full shields on everyone then open on your team.. but it's not insurmountable.

I don't really understand what you mean. Why would there not be cc during this damage? Everyone have at least one or two instant ccs to toss early game at a healer/random target.

Any team can force cds early if you play it correctly, but as a few above me has stated. You basically have double their hp during their/your opener. As in, a short cc(silence shot for example) on a priest with spirit shell stacked on the entire team will most likely not cause you to fall behind on healing. However if you for example meet a paladin healer you can basically force cds on any target with a hunter/x combo during the first silence shot.

These are bad examples. I'm just pointing out how if spirit shell were as useless and easy to counter as you state, people wouldn't be stacking it up before engaging. Some maps you can USUALLY outrun and stall the other team on mounts, but on a few other maps you are simply unable to do so and you basically HAVE to fight them while they all have a 200k absorb up combined with PW:S/whatever else.

Edited by Enim, 18 June 2013 - 05:58 PM.


#59 hc4b

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:00 PM

if your worried about disc priest right now, you have serious problems. 2s even, LOL

#60 saedia

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:08 PM

Nerfing focused will? ok and then we'll drop once a hunter auto attacks us




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