Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

5.4 Possible paladin updates


  • Please log in to reply
130 replies to this topic

#41 pyrellael_3428244

pyrellael_3428244
  • Junkies
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • US-Kirin Tor
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 160
  • Talents: Elemental 0/2/0/1/0/0
  • 2v2: 1937
  • 3v3: 2319

Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:44 AM

View PostMirionx, on 12 June 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

does this happen to anyone else but me?

http://www.twitch.tv/mirion1/c/2415298

feels so pointless to even try and play a paladin in this patch unless you have a hunter, enh, feral or dk to carry you..
Story of my damn life right there.

Paladins have no pushback resistance (THIS IS ACTUALLY A PROBLEM) people just ignore it. Infused casts while being trained are so scary to attempt even when you've faked all of the other team because you can spend way longer standing there casting the spell it gets insane cast time increases

Guardians heal not only is affected by battle fatigue twice or so I've seen it also won't copy absorbed amounts of heals (loldks)

Sacrifice doesn't take into account damage reduction effects on the person you sac'd... My warrior partner walled once at high health cause lol enhance ascendance damage, and I was at like 30~ from sacrifice.

My holy shocks crit for 40k with ms up+battle fatigue?(100k+ without) Battle fatigue should be adjusted per healer if healing is a problem, not overall because it's garbage. When mortal strike effects got buffed in cata ~s11 or whenever it was paladins got worse because it's harder to top someone from years of cc when your heals heal for less. So global healing nerfs of any kind will affect palas more than other healers for the most part

Correct me if I'm wrong, Unless both my 90 fully geared paladins are both bugged =p

Edited by pyrellael_3428244, 17 June 2013 - 11:44 AM.


#42 Eazymothafukne

Eazymothafukne
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 254
  • Talents: Balance 1/2/2/1/1/0
  • 2v2: 1988
  • 3v3: 2604
  • 5v5: 1152
  • RBG: 957

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:52 PM

Holy pallys are garbage just give up reroll disc priest
http://i.imgur.com/L60huZm.png
150k Shield slam avatar crit. ^

Real gamers unite

#43 ZhreyZhreystorm

ZhreyZhreystorm
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 36
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/0/0/1/1
  • 2v2: 1604
  • 3v3: 2713
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationNorway

Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:36 PM

I honestly think pala's were a little bit viable at least, these buffs are fucking huge, and if the turn evil change goes live, pala's will be able to sync so much better with other classes, think of Feral mage pala cc with clone fear poly, etc. Pala's will be so insanely strong. The aura mastery trinket on silence effects change ain't even old tbh, and that was pretty huge too.
Twitch.tv/Magxtv

#44 Vlada

Vlada
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 3624
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • 2v2: 1985
  • 3v3: 2265
  • 5v5: 2416
  • RBG: 2252

Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:00 PM

View PostMagxTv, on 17 June 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

I honestly think pala's were a little bit viable at least, these buffs are fucking huge, and if the turn evil change goes live, pala's will be able to sync so much better with other classes, think of Feral mage pala cc with clone fear poly, etc. Pala's will be so insanely strong. The aura mastery trinket on silence effects change ain't even old tbh, and that was pretty huge too.

Difference between new turn evil and repentance is not that big(same CD and same duration) and it will be in the same talent tree. How is that change "fucking huge"?

#45 augiddin

augiddin
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Turalyon
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 64
  • Talents: Windwalker 1/0/2/2/0/0
  • 2v2: 1356
  • 3v3: 2081
  • 5v5: 1152
  • RBG: 1914

Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:27 PM

View PostVlada, on 17 June 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:



Difference between new turn evil and repentance is not that big(same CD and same duration) and it will be in the same talent tree. How is that change "fucking huge"?
Because its opens up a new dr when playing with mages/hunters/rogues/monks it's actually really significant.

#46 Vlada

Vlada
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 3624
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • 2v2: 1985
  • 3v3: 2265
  • 5v5: 2416
  • RBG: 2252

Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:29 PM

View Postaugiddin, on 17 June 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Because its opens up a new dr when playing with mages/hunters/rogues/monks it's actually really significant.
it's still in holy school. Am I the only one that thinks this is such a wrong change and won't help holy at all

#47 Athená

Athená
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 1223
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2352
  • LocationThe Hague

Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:53 PM

What paladins need above all is passive healing, any buff to sacred shield so it doesnt break when the enemy farts would be amazing.
I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

#48 Cyanne

Cyanne
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Neptulon
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 351
  • Talents: Assassination
  • RBG: 768

Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:53 PM

View Postaugiddin, on 17 June 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Because its opens up a new dr when playing with mages/hunters/rogues/monks it's actually really significant.

But why would those classes play with a hpaly in the first place?

When hpalies where still somehow decent their best comp involved a hunter anyway. So cc dr was never the BIG problem.

The problem is lack of healing power and lack of buffers for your team when you are in cc.

Ohh and a double rng healing system that either makes your healing ok or totaly craptastic and you go oom in 30 sec.

All this change does is help hpalies in 2s... erm that's "ok" i guess :/

#49 Mirionx

Mirionx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1243
  • Talents: Holy 1/2/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2662

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:45 PM

View PostMagxTv, on 17 June 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Pala's will be so insanely strong.

Explain please.

#50 Vlada

Vlada
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 3624
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • 2v2: 1985
  • 3v3: 2265
  • 5v5: 2416
  • RBG: 2252

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:51 PM

View PostCyanne, on 17 June 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

The problem is lack of healing power and lack of buffers for your team when you are in cc.
Ohh and a double rng healing system that either makes your healing ok or totaly craptastic and you go oom in 30 sec.
this
asdf

Edited by Vlada, 17 June 2013 - 10:54 PM.


#51 originalret

originalret
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Barthilas
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 97
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/0/0
  • RBG: 1851
  • LocationAus

Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:55 AM

View PostVlada, on 17 June 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

it's still in holy school. Am I the only one that thinks this is such a wrong change and won't help holy at all

DR is not about the school of magic the control type comes from. its about the type of control it is, which in this case is a fear. Fears will clash with certain other control types such as blinds.
Turn evil allows dots to continue to tick on a target without causing instant breaking of the effect, making it slightly superior to repentance. This will be most effective with ret, who may continue to beat down on a feared target (ive done this before with Lichborne DK's, usually get 3-4 seconds out of the fear before it breaks)

#52

  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 384

Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:16 AM

View Postoriginalret, on 18 June 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

DR is not about the school of magic the control type comes from. its about the type of control it is, which in this case is a fear. Fears will clash with certain other control types such as blinds.
Turn evil allows dots to continue to tick on a target without causing instant breaking of the effect, making it slightly superior to repentance. This will be most effective with ret, who may continue to beat down on a feared target (ive done this before with Lichborne DK's, usually get 3-4 seconds out of the fear before it breaks)

you're right, arguably the most tunneled spec in the game is going to manage to get off casted fears.

This change is negligible, there are far more fear breaks then repentence breaks. It opens up some nice new synergy with some classes, and I assume people will just switch between repent and fear depending on what you're fighting. Also wuill the glyph be being reworked for everyone or just people who spec the talent? Losing instant fear vs priests/dks will suck. Regardless, this isn't what our class needs, and won't fix any of our problems, but I guess if hunters stay op we can just ride that train for another season.

Edited by Radejjj, 18 June 2013 - 03:17 AM.


#53 terribleperson

terribleperson
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Lightbringer
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 445
  • Talents: Destruction 1/2/2/0/2/.

Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:30 AM

View Postoriginalret, on 18 June 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

DR is not about the school of magic the control type comes from. its about the type of control it is, which in this case is a fear. Fears will clash with certain other control types such as blinds.
Turn evil allows dots to continue to tick on a target without causing instant breaking of the effect, making it slightly superior to repentance. This will be most effective with ret, who may continue to beat down on a feared target (ive done this before with Lichborne DK's, usually get 3-4 seconds out of the fear before it breaks)

He's talking about the fact that if you're interrupted while casting it, you're fucked. I think it's a given that magic schools don't play a part in dr's.

Lot's of other classes can bait pummels by casting a spell of another school. I used to do it on my lock back when you still could. Not that it would really be game breaking by any means anyway...

It's not exactly the change we need, however, hand of purity seems like it might be a nice change of pace. 40% dmg reduction every 30 seconds? It's on the same tier as clemency though, so fuck me.

#54 Styfez

Styfez
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Illidan
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 410
  • Talents: Windwalker 1/0/1/0/2/1
  • RBG: 768
  • LocationBakersfield, CA

Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:02 AM

View PostRadejjj, on 12 June 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

D stance is 25% forever, and wizards can still 100-0 you through 40% DP. A DP for every deep is going to be amazing though

I don' think that's a fair comparison. Warriors lose out on damage to camp in D-stance. Warriors also can't bubble, dispel their healer, or heal their team mates..

#55 Mirionx

Mirionx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1243
  • Talents: Holy 1/2/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2662

Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:29 PM

View Postoriginalret, on 18 June 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

DR is not about the school of magic the control type comes from. its about the type of control it is, which in this case is a fear. Fears will clash with certain other control types such as blinds.

It's more about risking getting locked out than what DR it is, casting is already hard in the current game and spamming CCs doesn't work for Paladins since if you get locked your healing is stopped completely.

#56 Hofflerand

Hofflerand
  • Junkies
  • Posts: 198
  • LocationNY

Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:30 PM

For Ret PvP:

Tier 15 is still unquestionably Long Arm. No changes here.

Casting fears might be cute if Ret didn't get trained every game and the pace of arena wasn't so fast. I sort of like the idea of Holy being able to choose the DR school of its CC, but is this really worth two whole talent slots? By all means replace Burden of Guilt, but do so with a talent useful to the entire class.

Tier 45 remains unquestionably Selfless Healer. This is disappointing because I like the mechanics of Eternal Flame and Sacred Shield.

The buff to Unbreakable Spirit is cool, I'll give the devs that -- Clemency may actually have competition now. However I wish they'd give up on Hand of Purity. I like that it's a hand spell, but the only time I choose it is against Affliction. Too niche.

Onto tier 75. Pretty much every Ret goes HA and macros it into Wings. I like the feel of Divine Purpose, but it won't be competitive until the devs decide to slow down PvP (hint, hint). Sanctified Wrath is boring and sucks in PvP. What I would do is change HA from a separate CD to "Improved Wings" (everyone macros them together anyway) and then redesign SW.

Holy Prism will probably remain mandatory because it both deals damage and heals and it has one-third the CD of Execution Sentence. The dispel change is cool, but ES will usually still take 10 sec before the final burst tick and it needs to be cast during Wings to benefit from Wings -- not very fluid for this sort of delayed burst.

That does it for talents. Glyph of Turn Evil obviously has to be changed which means we probably won't be able to instant fear psyfiends or Lichborne DK's or ghouls or gargoyles or felhunters. That sucks in and of itself and Ret will be left with even more pitiful glyph options. Glyph of TV remains mandatory, Divine Prot isn't a choice but rather mandatory or useless depending on the opposing team, Double Jeopardy and Flash of Light are filler glyphs which barely make a difference, and the rest are terrible.

I don't mean to sound like a downer. This isn't even from a balance perspective. I just want some fun and interesting options because that was the whole idea behind the new talent system. As for the baseline changes, Guardian of Ancient Kings having a lower CD and smaller strength buff is neat and I'm sure Inquisition's increased duration will be convienent.

#57 originalret

originalret
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Barthilas
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 97
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/0/0
  • RBG: 1851
  • LocationAus

Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:15 AM

View PostMirionx, on 18 June 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

It's more about risking getting locked out than what DR it is, casting is already hard in the current game and spamming CCs doesn't work for Paladins since if you get locked your healing is stopped completely.

Resto druid have been dealing with this since as long as i can remember with cyclone. pallies have many ways to prevent themselves from being interrupted or silenced.
my favourite is pairing with a Fdruid (who will always symbi a pally) and forcing an interrupt on wrath. Oh noes! my nature school is locked!

but for a holy pally i suppose wrath isnt an option. try copying whatever the druids and shamens are doing

still, i dont quite see how this is any different to what people have been dealing with using repentence. its holy, so you run the same risk. until bliz passes final judgemetn on the glyph mod (which may still lower its cast time, we dont know yet) there is no point complaining about the spell being in the holy school.

take fist of justice if you are not a fan of interrupts

Edited by originalret, 19 June 2013 - 02:30 AM.


#58 Abidalzim

Abidalzim
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 312
  • Talents: Enhancement 0/2/1/1/0/0
  • RBG: 1740

Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:34 AM

View Postoriginalret, on 19 June 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

Resto druid have been dealing with this since as long as i can remember with cyclone. pallies have many ways to prevent themselves from being interrupted or silenced.
my favourite is pairing with a Fdruid (who will always symbi a pally) and forcing an interrupt on wrath. Oh noes! my nature school is locked!

but for a holy pally i suppose wrath isnt an option. try copying whatever the druids and shamens are doing
You force an interrupt by casting wrath?
Zaka pa te če naja morš te ne, te pa če pa te ne čuj, kaj te to te je, ne?

#59 originalret

originalret
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Barthilas
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 97
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/0/0
  • RBG: 1851
  • LocationAus

Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:58 AM

View PostAbidalzim, on 19 June 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

You force an interrupt by casting wrath?

step 1: dummycast flash heal
step 2: hardcast wrath

99% of the time one of two things will happen, either the dummy cast tricks the warrior into pummeling during no cast and gets wasted (i fall for that one all the time >.<) or the warrior assumes the next cast immediately after the dummy is another attempt at flash so they decide to pay much more attention to the bar appearing under his targets name plate and spams his pummel the second he see's the bar appear without reading it.

1% of the time the warrior has had 11 cups of coffee and the game is in permanent slow motion for them, and they dont fall for it

#60 Abidalzim

Abidalzim
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 312
  • Talents: Enhancement 0/2/1/1/0/0
  • RBG: 1740

Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:12 AM

uhhhh... ok..
Zaka pa te če naja morš te ne, te pa če pa te ne čuj, kaj te to te je, ne?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<