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shadow priest dmg reduction gone


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#81 Elorxo

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:43 PM

Also, what makes you think we have more defensives with melee on you than priests?

-barkskin
-might of ursoc
-NS

-dispersion
-shields
-POM
-baseline instant cc (fear/disarm/silence - ours is casted)

Fairly equal IMHO - we can spec into more that changes gameplay obviously (blink, roar, typhoon, fearbot, angelic bulwark/invis, etc) but overall there isn't some clear advantage that Moonkin have over spriests. This change hurts us as much as you.


you can't count shields and pom as a defensive cd equal to barkskin, dispersion and might of ursoc thats ridiculous.
something on a 10s cd and global that might bounce to you once and heal for 20k?
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#82 Virent

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:53 PM

You have the ability to go invis, we have blink.


I gave up kind of there when you compared those two.
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#83 Udderly

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:55 PM

I gave up kind of there when you compared those two.


You have to be kidding me. Being able to go invis is incredibly good and it's on a very short cd. I'm no pro priest, but playing on my alt it has saved me numerous times from death.
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#84 Udderly

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:59 PM

you can't count shields and pom as a defensive cd equal to barkskin, dispersion and might of ursoc thats ridiculous.
something on a 10s cd and global that might bounce to you once and heal for 20k?


Not comparing any individual item, just listing them. dispersion is the best of them by far, so of course it makes sense that moonkin has a couple that are in the middle, with something like POM being on the bottom. It's the total package of defensives that matter, not any one individual one. Shields are definitely on a much better than 20k, so even if you discount POM all together your shields certainly count as a defensive (especially on such a short cd from weakened soul).
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#85 Nexxer

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:01 PM

You have to be kidding me. Being able to go invis is incredibly good and it's on a very short cd. I'm no pro priest, but playing on my alt it has saved me numerous times from death.


You do realise any kind of damage gets you out instantly? Not to speak about FF, flare, etc. It is absolutely not reliable, angelic bulwark is a lot better in almost every scenario...
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#86 Marshmellow

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:15 PM

should bring back spectral guise in CC imo
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#87 Virent

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:15 PM

You have to be kidding me. Being able to go invis is incredibly good and it's on a very short cd. I'm no pro priest, but playing on my alt it has saved me numerous times from death.


If it worked like a vanish and didn't break on damage, sure. But seeing as if you use it without a shield (those break instantly anyway) while being damaged, it won't even make people de-target you.

Don't get me wrong, I quite like it to get fears etc. But saying it's a defensive cd? Barely.

Edited by Virent, 11 July 2013 - 04:23 PM.

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#88 shunke

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:10 PM

Some ideas that more creative people could take and run with:

-Some sort of a slow (low CD low duration, just enough to get away and get a cast or two off) - a glyph for a slow on lvl 90 talents?
-A new defensive button or shorter CD on Dispersion (not sure this entirely solves the issue)
-Some sort of mobility buff - maybe something like a glyph: Angelic Feather now grants freedom but has a 20? 30? second CD (could be interesting and adds some extra spriest utility because you can get teammates out of roots etc too, but isn't really balanced with the rest of the lvl 15 tier)


1. Void Tendrils
2. PWS
3. Phantasm
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#89 Hackattack3

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:12 PM

I think people are suffering from a grass is greener effect here.


Felic (ret) is jealous about how "tanky" spriests are when it comes to caster cleaves.

Spriest camp is jealous about boomer mobility, escapes, and pally plate.

Boomer (udderly) is jealous about spriest defensives.


Everyone has a valid point and each of the classes represented have their own strengths and weaknesses. People who are asking for spriests to get snares and/or more mobility are ridiculous. Most of the problems in MOP were created when certain classes had "too much", i.e. looking at mages/warriors at MOP launch and looking at your hunters now. Look at issues symbiosis creates giving certain classes key defensive CDs (lol @ ferals w/ dispersion).

Comparing ret, spriest, and boomer as hybrid dps options, we should all be able to agree that:


Rets
Plus - strong vs melee (mainly warriors, hunters, ferals) due to plate, BOP, and freedom.
Cons - get shit on by caster cleaves, not enough passive damage mitigation.

Spriests
Plus - "caster tanks" with all the passive damage mitigation, defensive CDs and additional utility (shields, POM, renew)
Cons - get shit on by melee cleaves due to tunneling. Have minimal escapes and tunneling completely locks out damage.

Boomers
Plus - Great mobility and high damage output + pressure even when being focused. Not just mobility but ability to actually escape and top off behind a pillar or wait out offensive Cds.
Cons - Dangerous to get caught out of boomer form (charge into cat or when in travel form), only one solid defensive CD that is on short CD (barkskin). When tanking melee dps in bear form zero damage output.


I think all of these specs are in a GREAT spot right now. They have strengths and weaknesses, how it should be, and good players will work around the weaknesses. The problem is with classes that have too much, i.e. hunters and el shammys.
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#90 graynight

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:52 PM

everyone citing priest invis as a powerful defensive CD is confused or playing bad people on their alt priests. it only works well when used pre-preemptively to avoid a CC or to get in a CC. a real defensive CD has to be effective when you are getting trained and need to get away - it is just not reliable for this.

i am not a priest, but i know this because of how many good priests i've killed. of course it helps that DK's are naturally powerful against priests, but i can't tell you how many times priest invis lasts under 1 sec when i'm training them. i'm not sure if this is intended but ANYTHING can break it. if i happen to be jamming a death coil right when he is invis'ing, if the 2 go off close to the same time, due to latency issues or travel time of the coil, the coil will still hit him. if my pet is on him, even a claw or auto-attack somehow still connects, again not sure if this is a bug or not. i can swear even abilities with no travel time like icy touch due to latency issues and the spell already being "queued" and assigned to a target has seemed to hit.

you can't really compare it to blink, bark skin, freedom, etc. these abilities kind of always "work."

i don't play with a Spriest so it would actually help me if they got nerfed, but i would like more variety at higher ratings. especially in 2s now, once you're past 2k, the entire game revolves around speccing to counter hunters, ferals, and DK's. 3s have a lot more variation, but you can almost randomly replace a spriest with a hunter, mage, ele and the team would not suffer at all for most comps. (unless it already had one of those, even then i wouldn't be surprised if 2 hunters on a team couldn't work).
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#91 Virent

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:35 PM

I think all of these specs are in a GREAT spot right now. They have strengths and weaknesses, how it should be, and good players will work around the weaknesses. The problem is with classes that have too much, i.e. hunters and el shammys.


Right now, yes. Next patch, no.
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#92 Mystifie

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:25 PM

All I want is something to replace our final tier. shadow priests are the only class without a useable level 90 ability at the moment. I'm not even asking for a game-changing ability. Maybe something like feathers baseline, but you can only use one every 10 seconds or something.
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#93 Virent

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:28 PM

All I want is something to replace our final tier. shadow priests are the only class without a useable level 90 ability at the moment. I'm not even asking for a game-changing ability. Maybe something like feathers baseline, but you can only use one every 10 seconds or something.


Personally, I quite like divine star even though it barely does any heal atm. It's still something and has a cool effect!
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#94 Hackattack3

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:46 PM

Right now, yes. Next patch, no.


Could you please provide some detail as to what you are concerned about with the next patch? Something that warlocks, balance druids, and rets don't already have to deal with.
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#95 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:55 PM

I think all of these specs are in a GREAT spot right now. They have strengths and weaknesses, how it should be, and good players will work around the weaknesses. The problem is with classes that have too much, i.e. hunters and el shammys.

single best post in this thread yet

certain classes (shadowpriests, hunters, and now elemental shamans) have got used to the idea that you can take one of them, take any healer, and any second dps, and boom you have a super viable setup. newsflash, classes are meant to have strengths and meant to have weaknesses, classes are meant to complement each other. when you can take a shadowpriest, any healer, and any dps, and have a very strong setup, that means shadow priests are broken. same with hunter, same with ele. stop thinking that your class is supposed to be super strong vs spell damage, super strong vs melee damage, have strong cc, have strong sustained damage, have strong burst damage, and if it loses one of these things then the world is ending
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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)





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