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shadow priest dmg reduction gone


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#61 Virent

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:55 AM

Would giving shadow Focused Will be too much? The idea of a set bonus for reductions sounds good too.


Shadow having focused will would be the most broken thing in the whole game. And as said, I think any spriest would prefer more defensive cds than having passive damage reduction. However, if the only thing they're changing is giving us 60% more armor, then spriests won't be viable whatsoever.
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#62 Feliclandelo

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:08 PM

if you think a cloth (even a spriest) takes less damage than a plate class .. youre mistaken by a huge margin - granted sure they may have more armor but who exactly is taking more damage and dying first?

i see an on going thing too .. since when did Deep freeze have anything to do with armor? nothing. never has .. never will.

dont encourage this idiot into thinking hes correct.


I'm not encouraging any behaviour like his (and yours for that matter). I'm simply trying to get a point across, that his first post did hold some truth. I mentioned cloth classes such as priests (discipline or shadow) both take less damage than my retribution or holy paladin, and it is true. Point for point, you can mitigate more damage due to inner fire, shadowform (be it 15% or the 60% increased armor) and focused will. Armor has not done anything since Wrath of the Lich King. Back then it actually made sense to wear a shield, now I can run around with an off-hand from PvE if I like and it would make no difference. Atleast I can tell you this one thing. Shadow priests will get fucking destroyed by casters in 5.4. Welcome to the world of paladins brothers!

Dying first=/=takes more damage. Just because an sp melts vs hunter cleaves, doesn't mean that a melee dps can tank them for much longer. An sp for example takes less physical dmg than a paladin without cds, but a ret can survive longer because he has better off heals and def cds.


But we dont? Currently they have few thousand armor less than a ret paladin. However, they have -15% dmg taken in shadowform (30% if ure discipline) and of top of that they have stamina buff and around 40k more health than rets (I have no idea why we have been given so little stamina on our gearsets).

You could argue that Divine Shield is a defensive cd that makes us immortal for 10 sceonds, but truth is it rarely lasts for 2 before it is cleaned. Dispersion is probably on average having the same uptime (6 seconds?) in general due to all the priests running around.

All in all I do not see this change to balance and shadow priests making it live. Not without some kind of slight magical damage reduction too, or some kind of PvP talent that will be unwise to go for in PvE. Otherwise they have to tone down casters a bit.
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#63 Trollsweed

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:50 PM

They removed our lifeswap it was fine since we didnt have it in previous seasons, and if you were used to play without it didnt matter. Then they increased our mass dispel casting time which also was fine in my opinion, but if they are going to remove the 15% less dmg taken from all sorts while being in shadowform they need to give us something else. We are the only Cloth caster who cant get away from the hunters warriors dks and such classes sitting on our ass, mages got blink novas and so on, warlocks got portal gateway and huge defensives. If they remove our 15% less dmg we only have dispersion left which would be bs.

Edited by Trollsweed, 24 June 2013 - 01:51 PM.

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#64 enilix

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:41 PM

Some ideas that more creative people could take and run with:

-Some sort of a slow (low CD low duration, just enough to get away and get a cast or two off) - a glyph for a slow on lvl 90 talents?
-A new defensive button or shorter CD on Dispersion (not sure this entirely solves the issue)
-Some sort of mobility buff - maybe something like a glyph: Angelic Feather now grants freedom but has a 20? 30? second CD (could be interesting and adds some extra spriest utility because you can get teammates out of roots etc too, but isn't really balanced with the rest of the lvl 15 tier)
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#65 dionim

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:07 PM

I'm not encouraging any behaviour like his (and yours for that matter). I'm simply trying to get a point across, that his first post did hold some truth. I mentioned cloth classes such as priests (discipline or shadow) both take less damage than my retribution or holy paladin, and it is true. Point for point, you can mitigate more damage due to inner fire, shadowform (be it 15% or the 60% increased armor) and focused will. Armor has not done anything since Wrath of the Lich King. Back then it actually made sense to wear a shield, now I can run around with an off-hand from PvE if I like and it would make no difference. Atleast I can tell you this one thing. Shadow priests will get fucking destroyed by casters in 5.4. Welcome to the world of paladins brothers!



But we dont? Currently they have few thousand armor less than a ret paladin. However, they have -15% dmg taken in shadowform (30% if ure discipline) and of top of that they have stamina buff and around 40k more health than rets (I have no idea why we have been given so little stamina on our gearsets).

You could argue that Divine Shield is a defensive cd that makes us immortal for 10 sceonds, but truth is it rarely lasts for 2 before it is cleaned. Dispersion is probably on average having the same uptime (6 seconds?) in general due to all the priests running around.

All in all I do not see this change to balance and shadow priests making it live. Not without some kind of slight magical damage reduction too, or some kind of PvP talent that will be unwise to go for in PvE. Otherwise they have to tone down casters a bit.


I agree with most of things you said, but everyone has the same HP from gear, druids have a little more from talents, and i would trade Fortitude for kings/might anytime.

Full buffed people has 424k hp, against 399k when unbuffed. thats the same for everyone but druids

Edited by dionim, 24 June 2013 - 05:36 PM.

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#66 fant0m8

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:02 PM

I agree with most of things you said, but everyone has the same HP from gear, druids have a little more from talents, and i would trade Fortitude for kings/might anytime.

Full buffed people has 424k hp, against 399k when unbuffed. thats the same for everyone but druids


Warlocks. ;)
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#67 dionim

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:41 PM

Warlocks. ;)


Haha thats true, i have seen warlocks with 500k+ hp, lol
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#68 Isumi

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:48 PM

yeah i also think, fixing mobility for sp is important.

i would like to see that phantasm is baseline for shadow.
Another thing is a slow that we need. Shadowpriest is basically the only spec in the game which doesn't have a slow to kite somebody. The only slow we have is mindflay, but obviously we can't kite while casting mindflay.

If we get both these things we can kite way better with a slow on meele combined with Phantasm and the sprint of feathers/ B&S.

I also think we have to get something against casters to compensate the +15% dmg. Maybe spectral guise can't break in the first two seconds.

Maybe lowering the cd of Dispersion (Cata was 1min15sec, Mop is 2min) or increase the cd-reduction of Dispersion glyph is also an option
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#69 Feliclandelo

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:47 PM

I agree with most of things you said, but everyone has the same HP from gear, druids have a little more from talents, and i would trade Fortitude for kings/might anytime.

Full buffed people has 424k hp, against 399k when unbuffed. thats the same for everyone but druids


Fuck, I feel cheated on somehow realising this.
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#70 kannetixx

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:01 PM

I'm not encouraging any behaviour like his (and yours for that matter). I'm simply trying to get a point across, that his first post did hold some truth. I mentioned cloth classes such as priests (discipline or shadow) both take less damage than my retribution or holy paladin, and it is true. Point for point, you can mitigate more damage due to inner fire, shadowform (be it 15% or the 60% increased armor) and focused will. Armor has not done anything since Wrath of the Lich King. Back then it actually made sense to wear a shield, now I can run around with an off-hand from PvE if I like and it would make no difference. Atleast I can tell you this one thing. Shadow priests will get fucking destroyed by casters in 5.4. Welcome to the world of paladins brothers!



But we dont? Currently they have few thousand armor less than a ret paladin. However, they have -15% dmg taken in shadowform (30% if ure discipline) and of top of that they have stamina buff and around 40k more health than rets (I have no idea why we have been given so little stamina on our gearsets).

You could argue that Divine Shield is a defensive cd that makes us immortal for 10 sceonds, but truth is it rarely lasts for 2 before it is cleaned. Dispersion is probably on average having the same uptime (6 seconds?) in general due to all the priests running around.

All in all I do not see this change to balance and shadow priests making it live. Not without some kind of slight magical damage reduction too, or some kind of PvP talent that will be unwise to go for in PvE. Otherwise they have to tone down casters a bit.



touche my friend .. touche.
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#71 Aspegic

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:13 PM

Just a question for you guys, have you experienced the pushback shadow priests suffer when casting Mass Dispell? Personaly i haven't done much pvp lately, but before when i was being trained in the arena (by any melee) and tried to cast MD it looked like it took forever to cast cause the pushback was pretty ridiculous.

It gave me the impression that the passive that reduces our oushback by 70% wasn't working at all... So please, give me you toughts on this, if you agree or not or if i need to be corrected on something that i'm missing?

/salute
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#72 Wallirik

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:37 PM

Fuck, I feel cheated on somehow realising this.

what you're thinking about is wotlk, where a TSG warr/dk would have 40k hp, and poor little resto shams would have maybe 27k.
lol
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#73 Chromix

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:07 AM

Inner focus for shadow and 15 second buff to dispersion glyph would be cool (making it 1min 30sec).

However, I don't really know what shadow struggles vs currently.
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#74 Theles

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:41 AM

Idk but mindflay while running would be kinda cool (with the snare)
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#75 kannetixx

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:06 AM

Just a question for you guys, have you experienced the pushback shadow priests suffer when casting Mass Dispell? Personaly i haven't done much pvp lately, but before when i was being trained in the arena (by any melee) and tried to cast MD it looked like it took forever to cast cause the pushback was pretty ridiculous.

It gave me the impression that the passive that reduces our oushback by 70% wasn't working at all... So please, give me you toughts on this, if you agree or not or if i need to be corrected on something that i'm missing?

/salute


you're mistaken. all push back is the same.
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#76 Sicminded

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:01 PM

Ive been playing shadowpriest since the last tournament realm they held during cataclysm. My feelings are that shadowpriests definitely have been getting super strong nerfs the last few patches.. Between phantasm(which was fine) spectral guise while stunned(which was fine) void shift (which was fine) mass dispel(mehhhhhh your starting to screw us) but now with passive damage reduction? Blizzard , if by chance you read this, which I highly doubt. Play arenas at over 2k mmr against feral hunter priest or ret hunter priest. Or try being trained by a KFC.. Then come talk to me. Spriests need love in the mobility department. No doubt. Or more survivability against mellee
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#77 Virent

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:35 PM

They could just revert all the nerfs that they did to sps before and keep this one and maybe sps would be fine.

Maybe still keep the life swap nerf but probably not seeing as the sp will be pretty easy to kill still.

Edited by Virent, 29 June 2013 - 08:53 AM.

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#78 graynight

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:05 PM

spriests have the most trouble against melee cleaves. gaining some physical dmg reduction and losing some magic reduction shouldn't be game breaking, right? Most caster cleaves you are going up against will have either an spriest, warlock, or boomkin as ONE of the team members, so both sides will be equally nerfed. This indirectly buffs ele shm I guess? But they make up a small percentage of players above 2k.
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#79 Virent

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:27 PM

spriests have the most trouble against melee cleaves. gaining some physical dmg reduction and losing some magic reduction shouldn't be game breaking, right? Most caster cleaves you are going up against will have either an spriest, warlock, or boomkin as ONE of the team members, so both sides will be equally nerfed. This indirectly buffs ele shm I guess? But they make up a small percentage of players above 2k.


Warlocks and Boomkins are not nearly as reliant on their passive dmg reduction as shadow priests are. Not only do they have much more defensive cds, they also have much better mobility.

And the physical damage reduction will barely matter at all because every physical damage class has other types of damage and it's still a 3% reduction even.
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#80 Udderly

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:19 PM

Warlocks and Boomkins are not nearly as reliant on their passive dmg reduction as shadow priests are. Not only do they have much more defensive cds, they also have much better mobility.

And the physical damage reduction will barely matter at all because every physical damage class has other types of damage and it's still a 3% reduction even.


You may be right about locks with gate/portal, but you are off about moonkin. You have the ability to go invis, we have blink. That's basically it. If you think travel form counts then you haven't played a druid recently. By going in travel form you lose the dmg reduction from moonkin and there are so many passive slows constantly reapplied in the game currently that it's become less and less often you even bother going into travel form. This was actually one of the main issues I talked about with Moonkin becoming stronger in a recent blog: our mobility used to be a strength and now that there are a million and one gap closers it's really nothing special anymore. Body and Soul or Angelic Feather are equally as strong, if not more so, than travel form in it's current form.

In fact, moonkin doesn't even have the instant peels that priests have with fear (unless you spec roar, which breaks on dot damage unlike fear) so you could say that's less mobility because it doesn't allow us to 'get away'. I'm not trying to say we have less mobility than you, but it isn't anything special.

Also, what makes you think we have more defensives with melee on you than priests?

-barkskin
-might of ursoc
-NS

-dispersion
-shields
-POM
-baseline instant cc (fear/disarm/silence - ours is casted)

Fairly equal IMHO - we can spec into more that changes gameplay obviously (blink, roar, typhoon, fearbot, angelic bulwark/invis, etc) but overall there isn't some clear advantage that Moonkin have over spriests. This change hurts us as much as you.
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