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Where's all the holly Pallys at?

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#1 SaintsWH

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:40 PM

Where have all the pro Pallys gone? Have you all rerolled Druids or priests? I check streams, forums and arena ladders and its really really really rare to see one streaming. On EU I only see a handful above 2.2k. As an active hpal stuck around 1900 raiting, I'm really running out of ideas on how to improve my gameplay. Should I bow down and reroll like I'm guessing you guys have?

#2 Bridgey

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:50 PM

Reroll, I don't think any comp actually benefits having a hpally in it compared to other healers. Your best bet is to go Disc and ride the X/hunter/disc train to high ratings.
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#3 Eazymothafukne

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:51 PM

Holy paladins are garbage compared to other healers right now.
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#4 Evolute

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:25 PM

It's okay

Sometimes you play against wizards who you just feel helpless against, to the point where you have to literally not move past the arena midpoint at risk of being crowdcontrolled for 20 seconds or getting immediately swapped to, but it's not all bad.

They do okay in hunter-land if your partners can reliably get the traps or punish the hunter from getting them (I've run LSD2 and Aff/Hunter so far, so when a hunter attempts to scatter trap he usually gets destroyed and their pressure gets neutered for a bit).

I've had a lot of issues versus godcomps and ele/shadow teams as I can die in the blanket silence, even if I pre-wall the silence. Theres also that timeframe where I don't have auramastery, guardian, bubble, trinket, battlemaster/healthstone and in that timeperiod I'm so extremely vulnerable to any swaps since you basically need one of those at all times to be able to catchup.

Against some cleaves as some comps it's also a bit hard, as even with double bops sitting full duration and outplaying hunter traps or fears with sac or whatever, there comes a point where guardian falls and you can't catch up on damage anymore because your output is too low. Even though Paladins are great against cleaves, I've really had that issue since I don't have any real damage prevention cooldowns during the cleave train (ironbark, painsup, etc).

I think in 5s they're still required, if 5s still matters at all to anyone.

I really have been enjoying the auramastery change, since I usually don't need to auramastery for casters in general since so many of them have instants or ways to apply pressure without casting, which allows me to be selfish with it and get rid of any blankets so I can destroy any pressure attempt.

Ranged HoJ really nice. Blinding light is garbage and I cast it in 1 of 20 games now. I'm still experimenting between sacred shield and Eternal Flame. I really really really like the sacred shield absorb as it allows some catchup, especially versus spread damage, and it's pretty fire and forget 30k absorbs every 5 seconds. But at the same time, the (relatively small) hot on everyone and it getting transferred to beacon can help during burst phases and can probably help more if you're crowd controlled.

I don't think Paladins need many more changes, some CC reduction maybe so they're not completely demolished by crowd control teams, and maybe if Sacred Shield had better spellpower scaling so it absorbed more (Eternal Flame is mandatory in PVE since you literally blanket the raid in HoTs as a holy paladin, so buffing Sacred Shield SP wouldn't do much but add a small absorb for ret/prot and bring holy up in PVP situations)

Anyhow, this is just my experiences from 2300 3s and 5s in the past few days, and I'm not nearly the best holy paladin in the world, but ys~

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#5 SaintsWH

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:51 PM

Nice reply Volute, think im actually going to concentrate more on 5s, at least they can be really fun!

#6 Odrareg

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 06:09 PM

I don't know really, I haven't been playing a lot lately and I surely am not at the peak of my skill/reactions/awareness but I find it hard to break 2.2k in 3v3 and in 2s any BAD death knight/hunter/feral will make you cry no matter what you do.

Just feels like holy paladin HEALING (trying to keep out of susceptible to CC issues etc) is simply not enough to keep your partners up vs anyone else's damage, I feel like a TOTAL cripple.

The aura mastery change was really nice and I love it but it just isnt enough. The same goes for the divine protection one...it's a nice buff but it wasn't mandatory, just feels like a mage counter, which I like but it takes away the skill of pre-emptively using the spell itself. It just dumbs down the class without adding anything cool to it.

I'm just waiting for 5.4, and hoping as well...

#7 Evolute

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:02 PM

It's rough sometimes, no doubt

I sometimes have issues with the spread damage if they completely focus their locks and stuff on me, and intentionally position themselves to cut me away from my team

You just have to be quick to call out that and have your DPS peel back and either kill them or crowd control them so you can reposition

It's literally a positional game, if you fuck up three times or four times, depending on your DPS cooldowns, you will probably lose the game

I don't feel like the auramastery change 'dumbs down the class'. Every other class besides druids has a superior auramastery on a shorter cooldown. We just trade a longer cooldown for it to be team wide (which means nothing since all casters don't cast lol) and 20% magic reduction (which in the end is just a small bonus). It really hurts shadow teams as they rely on silence to 100 to 0 you in a DP rotation; good mages will just deep-cs you so you can't pre wall or auramastery it and they can more or less 100 to 0 you in it still with a partner.

Is disc, rdruid, monk etc better than pal? Probably, yes. They're a niche healer that have their own strengths and weaknesses. But I don't think they're far off from being really competitive with the top two.

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#8 Mirionx

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:24 PM

feels like the healing is close to 0 sometimes

also is it just me or is the guardian healing double dipping with battle fatigue? feels like the healing from it isn't even noticeable, the mastery is double dipping from it too i'm pretty sure

#9 snugglebunny

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

I got to 2300 on my alt pally that I hadn't played in months with 483 gear. Just played feral/hunter/pally, it seemed really, really overpowered

#10 Snuggli

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:26 PM

View PostMirionx, on 11 June 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

feels like the healing is close to 0 sometimes

This. On my Paladin every single fight feels like a losing battle. I haven't seen a single Paladin in 3s for close to 3-4 weeks.

View PostBraindance, on 11 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#11

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:35 PM

they are at saffies kebab gateway driveby geting some snacks and hair makeover

#12

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:25 PM

Guardian is double dipping with battle fatigue right now, might be intended might not be, but it really hurts. With the auramastery/DP changes I don't think wizards are particularly bad, and being tunneled isn't as bad. Hunter/melee/priest is dumb, but it's dumb for everyone, and ele's are retarded. Deathknights are kind of raping me right now though, when they pop full cd's its impossible to heal through the necro's on your self. In a few seconds there can easily be a 300k+ necro on you, which is impossible to heal through with just instants, and you have to juke the mindfreeze->double grip->gnaw->asphyxiate.

What's worrying though is that paladins, for the most part, both ret and holy, are tied to hunters right now. If hunters get nerfed hard paladins will probably disappear.

Edited by Radejjj, 11 June 2013 - 11:26 PM.


#13 Gesus

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 12:25 AM

/wave pewpew

#14 SaintsWH

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:03 PM

The new possible changes look really really nice thoe. Hope s14 brings good things for hpals! Because ATM every time you enter arena it's "I hope there retarded", most of the time that isn't the case. Then its pillar humping like a boss, then priest invis fears, then it's pretty much game over from there. I used priest as an example due to the fact their pretty much in 70% of teams.

#15 Miluu

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:08 PM

just run a tripple healer comb like, boomkin elemental shaman/shadow ele something like that... You will need the extra healing pretty sure. :(

#16 Smiercx

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:29 PM

http://eu.battle.net...on/Gunít/simple

hope I helped

on a more srs note: hpalas are not that bad if they play their own, oldschool game, i.e. max ranging everything and going for HoJ only when there is no possibility of getting ccd, which is cross CC

#17 Souki

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:39 PM

View PostSmiercx, on 13 June 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

http://eu.battle.net...on/Gunít/simple

hope I helped

on a more srs note: hpalas are not that bad if they play their own, oldschool game, i.e. max ranging everything and going for HoJ only when there is no possibility of getting ccd, which is cross CC

I was watching Zilea stream last night, and he said the exact opposite of that.  He said a lot of Paladins aren't doing so well because they're playing BC/Wotlk style of max ranging on HoJing on CD. Maybe he's right, he is 2600 atm with Jungle.

I don't know how he does it though. I feel like I have to max range to stop half of the CC on me.  But that's still not enough.

#18 irubuwrongtime

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:37 PM

View PostSouki, on 13 June 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

I was watching Zilea stream last night, and he said the exact opposite of that.  He said a lot of Paladins aren't doing so well because they're playing BC/Wotlk style of max ranging on HoJing on CD. Maybe he's right, he is 2600 atm with Jungle.

I don't know how he does it though. I feel like I have to max range to stop half of the CC on me.  But that's still not enough.

Because his team's playstyle is pop every cd within the 1st 20 sec without a single cc on enemy healer as paladin also pops all his cd to help his teammates stay offensive and finish the game in 1 minute mark.

1st cc -> bubble -> guardian heal -> bop -> double sac -> aura mastery heal -> trinket, I've actually seen him do something like this and win every game that way, lol.

It sure works well with current metagame of lez just out mongo the opponent team and win with instant cc.  This game has become very mongo friendly and stupid simple.

You never have to swap targets or actually you should not swap in order to get a faster kill because why go through every defensive cd of enemy team when you can just tunnel the easiest kill target and only swap when defensive cds are used so you can stay offensive then go back to the kill target after his defensive cds are down.  Much much easier this way.

Zilea also has a r1 feral talason and veev playing bm hunter who can never land trap but still does stupid dmg w/ so many instant cc.  TBH, jungle is the best comp for pala atm but you have to play the mongo game.

If you still wanna play the old style of max ranging and hugging pilars then only way is to play with casters.  Like that Korean paladin shindy who plays ele/lock/pala currently @ 2500 on bg9.

ps: Aside from that, yes ele sham are kinda retarded tbh.

Edited by irubuwrongtime, 13 June 2013 - 08:39 PM.


#19 Abidalzim

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostSmiercx, on 13 June 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

on a more srs note: hpalas are not that bad if they play their own, oldschool game, i.e. max ranging everything and going for HoJ only when there is no possibility of getting ccd, which is cross CC
I played some boomkin/ele/hpala and I didn't feel gimped at all playing with a holy pala. Seems like an easy setup to hit 2.2 with, but as youo said the pala needs to hug the pillar like there's no tomorrow.
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