Jump to content

Photo

The sad, sad state of warriors pt.2

please improve warriors

  • Please log in to reply
553 replies to this topic

#41 Silhin

Silhin
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 440
  • Talents: Frost 2/2/2/2/0/2
  • RBG: 1961

Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:04 PM

Having played a warrior during vanilla and most of TBC then taking a long break and coming back for MoP I can honestly say the warrior is but a shadow of what it once was; the class just feels clunky, slow and out of date, it has no uniqueness, no defining moves. Warriors used to feel visceral to play, you knew that if you managed to close in on someone you're going to do major damage to them. The class might be close to balanced now, but it's so god damn boring to play.

Sword/mace/axe specialization, flurry and possibly the original windfury totem; a lot was going on back then with our damage output as arms. Warrior damage had really high standard deviation: one moment you were a chump, the next moment you were exploding someone. That feeling of randomness and unexpected outcome of the damage is what got me hooked on warriors in the first place. When they toned down damage randomness they also toned down the fun, now I just feel like I'm standing around hitting someone with a sponge toy when I'm outside of swifty and it's really NOT fun. I don't feel like I'm a threat like I used to be, people don't even mind me wailing on them outside of swifty. I'm not asking for Windfury back but something needs to be done to bring back that feeling of (possibly) exploding on someone when you close in on them.

I think one of the things I miss the most is incoming damage giving you rage (and Enrage!), that was a defining class trait; you knew that if you focused a warrior in PvP he's going to get really angry at you and that totally needs to come back.

A few things I think could improve warrior gameplay:

  • Stances & rage; remove the cooldown on stances, I don't get why this was put in at all. Differentiate the stances way more, it's a complete mess right now. We should be generating rage from white attacks in all stances, with the difference between the stances being modifiers on damage done/taken, it just provides a much smoother gameplay. Make us get rage when we are focused in all stances and reduce the rage generated by attacks like mortal strike to compensate, possibly varied by stance. If I'm being tunneled by two wizards you bet your ass I'm going to be angry and have a full rage bar. Also, bring back getting Enraged when being a victim of a critical strike in some form (pop enrage yo), if necessary remove it from some other abilities that generate it like colossus smash.
  • Fix god damn Shattering Throw, it's awful. You can't ever rely on having enough rage to use it in a pinch, and that's exactly when you need it! and on top of that it has a cast time?! the 5 minute cooldown I can sorta live with, but the other two are unacceptable.
  • Hamstring; either give warriors a 1s GCD or put Hamstring on its own separate 1s GCD. Combined with its rage cost and the limited rage we currently have it just feels clunky to use and a waste of a precious GCD and rage. Back when hamstring did damage and you had things that it could proc like mace stun/sword specialization/windfury/improved hamstring/weapon enchants it was actually a really good move, even though it did super low damage on its own. And yes, improved hamstring needs to make a comeback because it was the quintessential warrior tool.
  • More shield moves for Arms! I want to use revenge, I want to do non-terrible damage when I have a shield on, I want spell reflect on a lower cooldown.
  • Make armor matter; If I'm wearing plate it should give me some sort of advantage against physical damage classes. Right now nearly all attacks are either magic or bypass armor in some way.
  • Don't let warrior disarm get trinketed; this and shockwave are our only peels. Also, I would like to see disarm do something to casters as well, perhaps reduce their damage/healing by a % when they are disarmed.
  • Heroic Leap glyph baseline, as other have said this is mandatory in the current meta game.
  • I am not completey sure on this one, but reduce the occurence of strikes of opportunity considerably (and the effect mastery has on it) and make it do twice the damage.


Wow don't we want to be a special snow flake

I can trinket your DISARM BUT CANT MINE RAWR !

Lol i can't tell if your srs

First u guys wanted cake not pie (cake being 25% reduc to def stance back and we will be fine said the warrior class ) Now the class is to boring so u want pie and donuts and muffins and a pizza with a 2 liter soda on the side u FATTYS !

Edited by Silhin, 09 June 2013 - 08:13 PM.

  • 0

#42 Battered

Battered
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 20
  • Talents: Arms 0/0/1/0/1/./.

Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:25 PM

I can trinket your DISARM BUT CANT MINE RAWR !


I was talking about disarms in general, not the warrior one in particular. Should have made myself clearer.
  • 0

#43 Häxantutto

Häxantutto
  • LocationSWE

Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:34 PM

i'd love to see some changes to warrior! Boring playstyle atm, and 0 rage at all times.
  • 0

#44 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3,934
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:34 PM

Wow don't we want to be a special snow flake

I can trinket your DISARM BUT CANT MINE RAWR !

Lol i can't tell if your srs

First u guys wanted cake not pie (cake being 25% reduc to def stance back and we will be fine said the warrior class ) Now the class is to boring so u want pie and donuts and muffins and a pizza with a 2 liter soda on the side u FATTYS !

Posted Image
  • 1

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...


#45 Taras

Taras
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Blackhand
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 260
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/0/2/1/1
  • RBG: 1597
  • LocationChicago

Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:30 PM

These posts often have very one-sided view of things. Whoever makes posts like these needs to present multiple sides of the story, aka how these buffs would work from perspective of a casters/other melee/healers/etc and from the perspective of the warrior class.

Theoretical example: Lets say warriors are given a root spell on 15sec cooldown or something. It might make sense from a warrior perspective because playing a warrior is basically 90% chasing your targets (or hiding) and 10% using your abilities. But the other side of that story might be that a mages can no longer keep a warrior off of themselves. Blizzard likes to call this an "Arms Race"

That example brings about another issue: "How should it be?" Should a warrior be completely neutralized and owned by a mage or should a warrior be beating a mage? Or should it be 50/50 and come down to who gets the crits? Because abilities and balance would be easy to adjust if you had a certain set of rules that you want to go by. However even blizzard themselves does not know how they want the classes to interact in PvP. They just load them with "cool" abilities and try to balance from there. That's why the best they can achieve is "playable" and not "balanced".


So those two points were about buff/nerf/balance threads in general. Now specific to warrior I have two major issues.

1. Having a passive slow would bring warriors in line with other melee and make them more balanced. But slows being passive is bad game design. Instead remove passive slows and make them active and cost a global.
2. Having a skill/talent movement speed increase would bring warrior in line with other melee and make them more balanced. But when every class has a movement speed increase, then what is the point? You might as well reset everybody back to 100% movement speed. I'd have to check but I think every melee gets a passive 15+% movement speed boost, while warriors are stuck with inferior enchant. Active movement speed increases should be looked into as well.

I do like the idea of a ranged snare (heroic throw/storm bolt applying it), that'd be cool and relatively balanced I think.

Edited by Taras, 09 June 2013 - 10:35 PM.

  • 0
Underwhelmed with WoW PvP since patch 4.0.6

Posted Imagehttp://tinyurl.com/y2eqmv

#46 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3,934
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:32 PM

The suggestions I make are not all or nothing. It's mostly some tweeks/QoL improvements. Even implementing 2 of them would make the class more fluid without making it overpowered.
  • 0

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...


#47 Monition

Monition
  • Members
  • Posts: 1

Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:15 PM

I was thinking you can give us shockwave and bladestorm. Remove stormbolt, build it into heroic throw with slow or silence. Move dragon roar to the last tier with a 15-25sec CD. Then put mace/axe/sword specs into that teir. Keep hamstring as its own ability i dont want to feel like the rest of the classes in the game. Remove staggering shout or make it an AOE root with no hamstring required,hamstring needs its on root implented so it will have a point to be its on ability on the GCD. I would also like to have avatar 10% physical damage and immune to slows/snares, lowering our offensive cooldowns would also put us on par with other melee, And i agree with alot that has been said above, but we need things that make our class different and fun to play. just some thoughts!
  • 0
"You can be anything you want in life"... JUST DONT BE A FUCKIN BITCH!

#48 mikestore

mikestore
  • Members
  • Posts: 7

Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:37 AM

i'd love to see some changes to warrior! Boring playstyle atm, and 0 rage at all times.

well yeah, same here.. some warrior changes would be awesome. A great start will be the 0 rage cost of Shattering Thrown. Anyways nice post Unhedged.
  • 0

#49 dRUSERN

dRUSERN
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Doomhammer
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 30
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:03 AM

I think some quick 5.4 fixable things would be intervene taking SPELLS (in junction with a shorter CD on spell reflect could make for interesting gameplay), and heroic leap working up ledges inside arena (and in the air like it used to). This would add some quick fun to the warrior class.

The way the game is now, and how it won't change until the next XP, warriors CANNOT be so prone to slows and roots. this need to be hotfixed in a way.
  • 0

#50 Axalmar

Axalmar
  • Members
  • Posts: 19

Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:21 AM

I was thinking you can give us shockwave and bladestorm. Remove stormbolt, build it into heroic throw with slow or silence. Move dragon roar to the last tier with a 15-25sec CD. Then put mace/axe/sword specs into that teir. Keep hamstring as its own ability i dont want to feel like the rest of the classes in the game. Remove staggering shout or make it an AOE root with no hamstring required,hamstring needs its on root implented so it will have a point to be its on ability on the GCD. I would also like to have avatar 10% physical damage and immune to slows/snares, lowering our offensive cooldowns would also put us on par with other melee, And i agree with alot that has been said above, but we need things that make our class different and fun to play. just some thoughts!


That still wouldnt make dragons roar worth speccing to, 26k crit? Shiiiieeet that less than Slam normal hits.

Heroic throw interrupt would be cool, it has travel time so to make it interrupt would increase the skill cap due to timing and wouldnt be so overpowered since it only works if you get it right.

Intervene reacting to spells would be great and spell reflect cooldown reduced by 5 seconds to make it 20 baseline would help with all the shit flying around.

Updating Shield wall would be pretty necessary aswell, if not reduce cooldown then increase the damage reduction in arms/fury.
  • 0

#51 usingg

usingg
  • Junkies
  • Goblinclass_name
  • US-Rivendare
  • Emberstorm
  • Posts: 326
  • Talents: Arms

Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:30 AM

fix charge plz, ty
  • 0
Posted Image
Spoiler

#52 mikestore

mikestore
  • Members
  • Posts: 7

Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:28 AM

well, someone should open a post on official forum page.
  • 0

#53 Evilcow

Evilcow
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 409
  • Talents: Arms 0/1/2/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1837
  • 3v3: 1845

Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:14 AM

Making Intervene/Safeguard actually reflect the next melee/ranged/spell attack would actually be way cooler than making Mass Spell Reflect baseline imho...
  • 0

#54 pedreboss

pedreboss
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Darksorrow
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 5
  • Talents: Affliction 0/0/1/0/0/1
  • RBG: 192
  • LocationYugoslavia

Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:44 AM

Remove Hamstring and make it into passive hits instead Like DK,Rets ,Feral everytime u swing an attack the target Should be slowed ,to many Global spending on trying to slow ppl whit hamstring . And make Percing Howl standard whitout the shity Talent .
Remove Shockwave and instead implement Warbringer charge as passive ability whit out talent.Try to make something fun whit Bladestorm . As a burst cooldown like the old days so it becomes funnier to play .
Passive warbringer charge and Bladestorm as a Burst cooldown could male warriors fun again ,when i shockwave i feel like a dam tank doing some kind of PVE crap.

Edited by pedreboss, 11 June 2013 - 12:46 AM.

  • 0

#55 Axalmar

Axalmar
  • Members
  • Posts: 19

Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:00 AM

Remove Hamstring and make it into passive hits instead Like DK,Rets ,Feral everytime u swing an attack the target Should be slowed ,to many Global spending on trying to slow ppl whit hamstring . And make Percing Howl standard whitout the shity Talent .
Remove Shockwave and instead implement Warbringer charge as passive ability whit out talent.Try to make something fun whit Bladestorm . As a burst cooldown like the old days so it becomes funnier to play .
Passive warbringer charge and Bladestorm as a Burst cooldown could male warriors fun again ,when i shockwave i feel like a dam tank doing some kind of PVE crap.


Now how would that make warriors fun to play again ? It wasnt fun to just press bladestorm and go afk for 6 seconds while the ability does everything.

Also shockwave has become an important part of warriors toolbox now that all our other stunns have been removed, it even has something built into that encourages atleast some kind of positioning/thinking to reduce the cooldown.
  • 0

#56 usingg

usingg
  • Junkies
  • Goblinclass_name
  • US-Rivendare
  • Emberstorm
  • Posts: 326
  • Talents: Arms

Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:16 AM

All you dummies that ask for passive slow know that there is hindering strikes glyph, right?

I took hamstring off my bars last season, I just use howl. 1000000x better
  • 0
Posted Image
Spoiler

#57 Battered

Battered
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 20
  • Talents: Arms 0/0/1/0/1/./.

Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:46 PM

All you dummies that ask for passive slow know that there is hindering strikes glyph, right?

I took hamstring off my bars last season, I just use howl. 1000000x better


Howl is fucking amazing, I can't imagine playing without it and I don't get people who don't take it.

Also, no to passive slows, that's just even more boring and requires less skill. What they need to do is make hamstring not suck, there are a few suggestions on this thread on how to do that. I'd be happy with hamstring on its own 1s GCD, seems like a modest request.

I'd be even happier if it started doing damage again on top of that, but I doubt that's ever going to happen, would make it too good.
  • 0

#58 Manakuski

Manakuski

Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:53 PM

Hamstring off the GCD with 1 sec cd. Stance cd:s reduced back to 1.5 seconds. Some work done on stances, for example Berserker stance is useless in pvp. Make it so we get way more rage from damage taken in pvp compared to what it is now, pve-wise it's fine. I kinda like defensive stance, but perhaps bring revenge back, if it would hit for 7-10k in pvp, would be nice. Only make it usable with sword and board. Also shield block. I loved that ability back when it was usefull. It required skill.

Edited by Manakuski, 11 June 2013 - 04:58 PM.

  • 0

#59 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3,934
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:56 PM

No hope folks - hunters will be the kings of this expansion. We are forgotten. Don't expect anything.
  • 0

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...


#60 Tunips

Tunips
  • Members
  • Gnomeclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 25
  • Talents: Fury 1/0/1/1/0/1/0
  • 2v2: 2219
  • 3v3: 2189
  • RBG: 768

Posted 11 June 2013 - 05:20 PM

We will always have the start of next expansion!!
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<