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#41 Reirei

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:36 AM

View PostHyuru, on 05 June 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

ps: remove fearie fire 2013

yes plz

jk they won't due to pve, but at least they could put FF duration in pvp on 8 sec and make it DR with itself putting it on line with other CCs
shut up pvp guy

#42 WildeHilde

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:44 AM

I think balance goes more in between PvE and PvP, there were a lot of PvP changes over the last month, the objective is not to screw PvE while balancing PvP. The catch-up mechanic made alt-play way easier than before and the 25k conquest for honor allows gearing for off-specs  faster.

We can all agree that rogues need buffs and that they were overnerfed in 5.3 but if we actually look onto balance currently it isn't as bad. Aside from the usual this-and-every-patch-since-2.3-is-the-worst-patch-ever-whining things are a lot more even and stupid damage was around in every season up until now. I think 5.3 was Holinka's first balance patch in WoW and so he made some mistakes (rogues and enhancers for example) but I am confident he will correct these.

#43 Dylon187

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:49 AM

View Postbandet, on 05 June 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

Yes, he was, but I still run 5% exp.

Pretty sure we fought you last night, either I was on my ret or my rogue... can't remember. We dogged on ya tho babe <3 :))))))

#44 bandet

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:25 PM

View PostDylon187, on 05 June 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Pretty sure we fought you last night, either I was on my ret or my rogue... can't remember. We dogged on ya tho babe <3 :))))))

Last night we went from 2050 to 2250, so I think we did well....

We only fought one rogue team. It was a spriest/rogue/druid, we never lost to them.

Fought a couple rets though, which one were you?

#45 Hyuru

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:57 PM

View PostWildeHilde, on 05 June 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

We can all agree that rogues need buffs and that they were overnerfed in 5.3.
No, we all do not agree on that. I'm sorry but the fact that you barely managed to reach 2K rating as thug cleave in 5.2 renders your opinion useless.

I'll quote my own reply from page 2, this would be a better way for Blizzard to fix balance.

View PostHyuru, on 05 June 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Spoiler

Edit: My point is that, instead of buffing every class so they're all retardedly overpowered and can global someone, they should balance every class around a balanced class (which in my opinion would be either warrior or rogue currently).

Edited by Hyuru, 05 June 2013 - 01:01 PM.


#46 bandet

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:21 PM

View PostHyuru, on 05 June 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

No, we all do not agree on that. I'm sorry but the fact that you barely managed to reach 2K rating as thug cleave in 5.2 renders your opinion useless.

I'll quote my own reply from page 2, this would be a better way for Blizzard to fix balance.



Edit: My point is that, instead of buffing every class so they're all retardedly overpowered and can global someone, they should balance every class around a balanced class (which in my opinion would be either warrior or rogue currently).

Well, see.. their mindset for MoP is different than Cata.

Basically, "When everyone is OP, no one is OP."

Giving every class an option to do retarded damage with CDs does just that, every class can do retarded damage, but some classes are left out of having as good mechanics, or utility.

In Cata, only a few classes could do retarded damage.

It is really impossible to actually balance classes. This solution seems more like a "lesser of multiple evils" type thing.

#47 Hyuru

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:25 PM

View Postbandet, on 05 June 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Spoiler
I know it is, but that's exactly what needs to change to balance the game.

#48 AcerMVP

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:49 PM

It'll never happen though, it's been this way since Wrath came out. In my opinion, want to fix rogues? Fix our energy regen. Our energy regen is what's fucking terrible. Can't put out as much damage as we should in PVP, problem is, our energy regen in PVE is perfect. So they probably will never touch it.

#49 Capers

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 02:16 PM

View PostElorxo, on 04 June 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

the rogue playstyle just isn't fun anymore imo.


This is a big thing. Just something about the rogue playstyle this expac sucks. Maybe it's the lower energy regen, lack of sustained damage, super squishy survivability (I'm fine with this as rogues should be that way. But with the amount of lockdowns, it's a bit of a problem.) majority of our mechanics tied to CP abilities (IE: Sanguinary requiring rupture, not just a bleed.) Or maybe a combination of some of these. Overall, rogues just don't feel fun.
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#50 angiejolie

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:04 PM

rogues haven't been fun since wotlk anyways idk how anyone has energy to keep trying to fix this game.. holinka was cool in the start but atm he's just proving to be another ghostcrawler rofl

#51 Randomguy

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:54 PM

Can anyone imagine Hemo preventing druid shapeshifting? It would be about equally as dumb as Faerie Fire preventing stealth yet Faerie Fire is still in the game...40sek completely preventing the use of ~8-9 abilities including a defensive CD (Stealth, Vanish, Cheap Shot, Garrote, Ambush, Sap, Disarm Trap, Premeditation and PICKPOCKET) ?WTF BLIZZARD?

#52 Tsx

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:57 PM

View PostFeliclandelo, on 04 June 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

That explains why rogues were all over the game last patch.

Please. You're just not fucking killing people in a dance anymore, and suddenly the class becomes boring and not viable.
all over?go check ladders, all the rogues that were playing in 5.2 are camping , and check how many time have a rogue in them.

#53 bandet

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:00 PM

View PostAcerMVP, on 05 June 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

It'll never happen though, it's been this way since Wrath came out. In my opinion, want to fix rogues? Fix our energy regen. Our energy regen is what's fucking terrible. Can't put out as much damage as we should in PVP, problem is, our energy regen in PVE is perfect. So they probably will never touch it.

Sounds like you are suffering from the same problem Hunters did in Cata.

Obvious solution is obvious: PvP set bonus for rogues that increases energy regen.

#54 prokillur

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:39 PM

View PostAcerMVP, on 05 June 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

It'll never happen though, it's been this way since Wrath came out. In my opinion, want to fix rogues? Fix our energy regen. Our energy regen is what's fucking terrible. Can't put out as much damage as we should in PVP, problem is, our energy regen in PVE is perfect. So they probably will never touch it.

What so we can spam 10k hemos faster? Bring back all the stuff they gutted from us at the end of Cata like the crit talents on Hemo, Ambush and Backstab, then revert the change to FW and nerf mastery, which was the patently obvious best choice because it would have directly targeted the only part of our damage which was out of control (double eviscerate).

In terms of mobility/survivability I have no idea, but clearly our abilities are outdated or have been superseded by better equivalents, some people have raised the idea of giving the charge/roll behaviour to Shadowstep, or putting Shadowstep back on Prep, either of those solutions would at least provide a temporary improvement until the next expansion.

#55 mirox

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:03 PM

-Shadow Dance is nothing compared to when you had +70% crit chance on ambush.
-Shadowstep is outdated gap closer.
-Honor among the thieves is nerfed into the oblivion.
-Recuperate healing being useless to the point where it would be more useful if it was dispelable to put it up as trash buff.
(its not like you can keep rupture/snd/kidney someone while pumping eviscerates into him and then still have combo points for recup, like seriously , they should at least make it remove 1 bleed/dot when it ticks because its completely shit)
-Positional requirements in order to do damage ? Cool story, at least put crippling poison back to 70% no one is slowed in this game anymore anyway...
There is no reason to buff damage for rogues to be better, just to fix above mentioned things.  With an exception that they shouldn't add crap talents like shuriken toss and what not, but instead they should make something like cold blood with 2-3 charges so that I can at least control my burst when  I needed it.

#56 Reirei

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:09 PM

rogues are fun imo, when you actually can do something and don't spend 90% of the time in roots/snares

also i didn't understand why they shifted dmg to finishers, dicking around waiting for dance is hardly fun neither for rogues nor for their teammates nor for enemies; i got plenty of messages this expac where people complained that i spend most of the time just trolling the enemy team and come out only when i had burst up

i don't think energy is that bad either once you gear up, idk why someone would think that being able to spam abilities would make rogues more fun

that applies to sub of cource, mut and combat are pretty ZzZzzzZZZZ and idk how they could change it w/o affecting pve too much as rogues in pve are pretty strong

lastly: WTB  real survivabilty like evasion actually doing something for example  :/
shut up pvp guy

#57 AcerMVP

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:11 PM

View Postprokillur, on 05 June 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

What so we can spam 10k hemos faster? Bring back all the stuff they gutted from us at the end of Cata like the crit talents on Hemo, Ambush and Backstab, then revert the change to FW and nerf mastery, which was the patently obvious best choice because it would have directly targeted the only part of our damage which was out of control (double eviscerate).

In terms of mobility/survivability I have no idea, but clearly our abilities are outdated or have been superseded by better equivalents, some people have raised the idea of giving the charge/roll behaviour to Shadowstep, or putting Shadowstep back on Prep, either of those solutions would at least provide a temporary improvement until the next expansion.

Are you really going to argue with me? Energy regen is the most important thing for a rogue. If we have a shitty energy regen, then there goes our damage. Yea, you can spam 10k Hemos faster meaning more damage over time vs no damage at all because we don't do any damage outside of shadowdance once we empty out our energy pool, but we would also be able to use Backstab more often to also do much more damage. If you're spamming hemo btw, you're playing your rogue wrong.

#58 bandet

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:14 PM

View Postprokillur, on 05 June 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

What so we can spam 10k hemos faster? Bring back all the stuff they gutted from us at the end of Cata like the crit talents on Hemo, Ambush and Backstab, then revert the change to FW and nerf mastery, which was the patently obvious best choice because it would have directly targeted the only part of our damage which was out of control (double eviscerate).

In terms of mobility/survivability I have no idea, but clearly our abilities are outdated or have been superseded by better equivalents, some people have raised the idea of giving the charge/roll behaviour to Shadowstep, or putting Shadowstep back on Prep, either of those solutions would at least provide a temporary improvement until the next expansion.

Spamming 10k shit abilities twice as fast is doubling your damage.

~Arcane Shot

#59 Reirei

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:22 PM

View PostAcerMVP, on 05 June 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Are you really going to argue with me? Energy regen is the most important thing for a rogue. If we have a shitty energy regen, then there goes our damage. Yea, you can spam 10k Hemos faster meaning more damage over time vs no damage at all because we don't do any damage outside of shadowdance once we empty out our energy pool, but we would also be able to use Backstab more often to also do much more damage. If you're spamming hemo btw, you're playing your rogue wrong.

they need to fix moblity first so we can actually can stick to target long enough to use that energy~
shut up pvp guy

#60 prokillur

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:22 PM

View PostAcerMVP, on 05 June 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Are you really going to argue with me? Energy regen is the most important thing for a rogue. If we have a shitty energy regen, then there goes our damage. Yea, you can spam 10k Hemos faster meaning more damage over time vs no damage at all because we don't do any damage outside of shadowdance once we empty out our energy pool, but we would also be able to use Backstab more often to also do much more damage. If you're spamming hemo btw, you're playing your rogue wrong.

Sorry, didn't mean to dismiss your proposal, I'm just arguing for the restoration of previous mechanics which defined the playstyle of the class. You seem to be advocating a spammy combat rogue-like playstyle with lots of low hitting, rarely critting abilities, and that might be effective for increasing sustained damage, but I'm not sure it would do much to recapture the fun that most people seem to agree has been lost. Having said that if it was a choice between your solution and the current borefest I'd take your solution every day of the week, don't get me wrong.

Edit: In fact, the more I think about it the more your idea in conjunction with the post by Bandet makes sense ("PvP set bonus for rogues that increases energy regen.") That combined with a mobility buff so that we can actually make use of the energy would be a pretty drastic improvement.




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