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How to play Mutilate.

mutilate rogue switch from sub

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#21 AcerMVP

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:52 PM

Nice thread, but do you spread dots even vs priest teams? Just curious as I havent tried it -- I wondered how it would function with pom bouncing to the last tick. I was just wondering if that healing was negligible in the grand scheme of the match.


Yes, why? Because DoT's make the priests shields adsorb dot damage, meaning that if you were to switch onto priest, the shield would be adsorbing less damage since most of the DoT damage was already adsorbed. So spreading dot's will work anyways, it will just slow you down a quite bit. In duels, the shields barely last anyways.

Regemmed to full mastery currently sitting on 84.73%, did a few 2s and been spamming BGs with it.

the damage output is insane, with multi rupturing you can keep a whole team pretty low without blowing any major cds, One thing I did notice is that when you garrote several targets from stealth it wont always trigger venomous wounds. VW only procs on targets that you have poisoned and when garroting several targets in subterfuge deadly poison does not always apply :(

Overall it feels like playing an unholy dk, lots of spread pressure from dots and a big burst cd every 2 mins. Its pretty good!

The damage between Mutilate, Dispatch and Envenom is crazy outside of having multi dots everywhere. In BG's I always get top damage because I'm at least having 5+ people dotted, so that's about 50+ energy almost every second allowing me to spam mutilate/dispatch/ST.

Question, how much damage are you doing on your bleeds/poisons? I normally see between 20k - 50k for Deadly Poison + the damage that comes in from rupture and garrote.

Also, the VW proc is really high with Garotte, so it's kinda weird that it didn't proc with you. Maybe bad RNG? :P But it always procs on my end. Either way, in 2's it's crazy fun and in threes, being able to switch targets fairly quickly with a redirect/rupture.

2s was sick with a healer. I feel like a real class playing rogue now. I can see how some teams will shut you down but it is nice to do sustained damage. I think the biggist plus to this is sub was SOOOO boring.


In 2's, a healer is always good, but I like to play with a SP, because of split dpsing. I will explain more of this in a bit when I update my guide a bit, but it's crazy fun with a SP or Boomy in 2's. If you play with a healer in 2's, the only team I have had problems with are with DK's, but my healer just tends to outplay DK's while I ram their healer :P
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#22 AcerMVP

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:54 PM

Updated with a enchanting guide and updated the macros for Garrote.

Will update with 2's strategies with certain classes.
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#23 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:04 PM

Updated with a enchanting guide and updated the macros for Garrote.

Will update with 2's strategies with certain classes.

Bracer enchant and boot enchant is both 170 mastery vs 180 agility, but your guide seems a little confused on which of those is better since you pick one for bracers and the other for boots :P
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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#24 AcerMVP

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:11 PM

Bracer enchant and boot enchant is both 170 mastery vs 180 agility, but your guide seems a little confused on which of those is better since you pick one for bracers and the other for boots :P


Not confused, but certain people tend to pick to go with both mastery or both agil. I like to have both, which is why Mastery for Bracers and Agil for Boots. I'm not pretty confused about it, but I'm giving people options more than anything. The difference in damage is very little when it comes to either or. One affects main ability damage while the other affects your poison damage. It's for the player to choose which one they would like to see more.
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#25 clusky

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:40 PM

Damage varies a bit but on average I would say I get 16k ticks and 25k crits from the deadly poison dot, sometimes I get a 40-50k crit but It seems somewhat random :s

Been playing with a Focus garrote macro and I worked out why I've been getting poor results with the garrote openers... Garrote does not proc poisons, you also do not start to autoattack your focus when you port.

"Each time your Rupture or Garrote deals damage to an enemy that you have poisoned, you have a 75% chance to deal 685 (+ 16% of Attack Power) additional Nature damage and to regain 10 Energy."

so yeah, I can garrote 3 people in an opener but without poisons on all of them it seems pretty pointless =/

The only way I've been reliably able to spread garrote and poisons around from the opener is by manually targeting people without any focus or arena macros :(

Edited by clusky, 30 May 2013 - 04:19 PM.

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#26 Shrouds

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 04:04 AM

I agree that cloak and dagger was super fun to play for the month it was out.
I think the real problem was the self-healing and handing out of CC's to everyone.
In terms of fun too, I don't think any rogue is like "hooray I have to keep up recuperate!" Slice and Dice is okay because we've always used it for more damage but keeping up recuperate and feint feels more like a tank that used to keep up shield block in vanilla/bc...
Granted I liked doing that, but on my tank not my rogue : /
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#27 baltothedog

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 04:52 AM

cant get more than 30k tick (all mastery with every buff), great guide overall
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#28 emerald

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:29 PM

Regemmed to full mastery currently sitting on 84.73%, did a few 2s and been spamming BGs with it.

the damage output is insane, with multi rupturing you can keep a whole team pretty low without blowing any major cds, One thing I did notice is that when you garrote several targets from stealth it wont always trigger venomous wounds. VW only procs on targets that you have poisoned and when garroting several targets in subterfuge deadly poison does not always apply :(

Overall it feels like playing an unholy dk, lots of spread pressure from dots and a big burst cd every 2 mins. Its pretty good!


after doing like a million garrotes on a dummy, it seems like garrote doesnt apply poisons at all, so you actually need to auto atk them to make it proc.

Real nice guide though, thanks for it :)
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#29 AcerMVP

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:10 PM

I noticed that a lot of people are saying that Garrote doesn't apply poisons, which, before 5.3 it was and during the beginning of it. Must of been a hotfix? Who knows with how blizzard works. Either way http://www.wowhead.c...venomous-wounds applies for Garrote, so you can easily do this:

Garrote team > FoK; Applies poisons on everyone around you and it's only 35 Energy which will be given back when you put up SnD + the 20 or 30 energy you are getting back from Garrote.
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#30 clusky

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 05:45 PM

Been playing around with a few things...

Since rupture only procs venomous wounds when your target is poisoned and deadly poison only last 12 seconds, when multi rupturing I've just been swapping between people with Mutilate (2 combo points) > Rupture, The rupture lasts 12 seconds as does the poison so you don't get any "wasted" rupture ticks. However on my current target I always aim for a 4+ CP rupture.

I swapped out CnD/Anticipation and took step and shuriken instead, I really missed being able to step rupture/Kidney people as well as its defensive uses (step your healer to eat traps being huge right now with hunters everywhere).

After running recount for many games deadly poison always comes out as my top damaging ability, So I took shuriken to spread it quicker and easier. Always maintain deadly poison on as many targets as you can, shuriken has a 30 yard range and it only usually takes 1 shuriken to get the poison on (Plus it does fairly decent damage as well), In a 3s match you should be able to have all 3 opponents Dotted with deadly at any given time and 2 if not 3 with rupture.

With full mastery gemming and full tyranical gear I'm able to get 16k deadly ticks and usually 25k crits from deadly alone, so having this spread over a full team is some pretty crazy pressure and easy to do with ST, Fan of knives is also really good if you get 2 or 3 people grouped up together.

On a side note has anyone tried using the Bad juju trinket? whats its proc rate like in pvp?
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#31

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:52 PM

Rogue dots, stronger then affli, gg
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#32 AcerMVP

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 04:10 PM

Been playing around with a few things...

Since rupture only procs venomous wounds when your target is poisoned and deadly poison only last 12 seconds, when multi rupturing I've just been swapping between people with Mutilate (2 combo points) > Rupture, The rupture lasts 12 seconds as does the poison so you don't get any "wasted" rupture ticks. However on my current target I always aim for a 4+ CP rupture.

I swapped out CnD/Anticipation and took step and shuriken instead, I really missed being able to step rupture/Kidney people as well as its defensive uses (step your healer to eat traps being huge right now with hunters everywhere).

After running recount for many games deadly poison always comes out as my top damaging ability, So I took shuriken to spread it quicker and easier. Always maintain deadly poison on as many targets as you can, shuriken has a 30 yard range and it only usually takes 1 shuriken to get the poison on (Plus it does fairly decent damage as well), In a 3s match you should be able to have all 3 opponents Dotted with deadly at any given time and 2 if not 3 with rupture.

With full mastery gemming and full tyranical gear I'm able to get 16k deadly ticks and usually 25k crits from deadly alone, so having this spread over a full team is some pretty crazy pressure and easy to do with ST, Fan of knives is also really good if you get 2 or 3 people grouped up together.

On a side note has anyone tried using the Bad juju trinket? whats its proc rate like in pvp?


Nice update! I've been farming Bad Juju since it was released, but still no luck :( I would love to see how it would work in PVP Situations. I also mentioned it earlier, if you do a mutli garrote, you can just FoK and venomous wounds will proc since it's suppose to proc on poisoned targets with either bleeds up. This normally will help in grouped parties as you said.

Edited by AcerMVP, 03 June 2013 - 04:14 PM.

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#33 Mattadoro

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:33 PM

bad juju proc takes forever in pvp and ends up being 3k agi for 40 seconds when it finally does

did a lot of wargame testing with it and a lot of times it would take atleast a minute+ to proc with 100% uptime

the passive mastery is nice but something like relic would be much better in almost every situation
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#34 Kifasa

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:56 AM

1. Really CnD over Shs? Really? Wait... You know they nerfed it, right? ;)
2. What 3s comp have You tried this build?
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Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.

#35 WildeHilde

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 05:27 AM

CnD did not get nerfed for Mutilate. But when using CnD I prefer Toss over Anticipation to make up for the lack of mobility.
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#36 Kifasa

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:27 AM

CnD did not get nerfed for Mutilate. But when using CnD I prefer Toss over Anticipation to make up for the lack of mobility.

Well, there is range nerf as well, but you got the point. Totally forgot about lack of Shadow Dance in Mut = you should never take CnD as Mut... :D
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Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.

#37 AcerMVP

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:07 PM

1. Really CnD over Shs? Really? Wait... You know they nerfed it, right? ;)
2. What 3s comp have You tried this build?


I ran stealth cleave, RPS and thug. Works really good with other dot classes, and high pressure classes that can stick to one person in the game. Also, CnD is really good with DoT/CC Spread, which is the reason why I chose it. Restealths are easily obtainable, so lack of mobility doesn't matter to me because of the range that CnD gives. Besides with a good Dispeller on your team, there is no need to worry about lack of mobility as mentioned before. Thinking about running Paly/Rogue/Boomy for fun or RLS once more and seeing how it works out.

Edited by AcerMVP, 04 June 2013 - 09:08 PM.

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#38 wraithaur

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:11 AM

I'm sitting on 68% mastery with just reforging. So you are suggesting ditching all socket bonuses and putting 320 mastery in every socket? Just reading the tool tip in wowarmory the scaling with AP is not mentioned but it is in wowhead. I assume wowhead must be out of date? If it scaled with AP as well then agil would be a better stat.
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#39 Narl

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:45 AM

Should be able to get higher than 68%, i'm at 72.2% with all socket bonuses.
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#40 Maumaux

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:23 PM

I was gemmed full mastery ignoring all sockets had 110%mastery with Bad Juju. But once i started switching out 320 mastery gems for 160 agility gems everytime that i changed one gem my posion damge (and rupture damage) actaully went up, very little (like 500 damage) but it still goes up. and agi gives you dodge and crit also.

Bad Juju does only give like 2300 agi even though the tooltip says 5k or something, but the Mastery on it is a flat 6% poison damage increase as well as have the 2300 agi for 40 seconds which is a long time.

Coupled with Shado Pan trink (4800 agi for 40 sec despite tooltip) and being able to reforge mastery and reforge out hit on gear is a good combo.

On proc trink is good 4k agi for 20 sec and 4% pvp power. Just not sure which trink to ditch for it if i ditch any at all.


Also you can get 432 mastery meta instead of 216 agi. Somrthing to think about.
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