Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Ret + 4 set pve + mastery stack = ?


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Bamflol

Bamflol
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Bleeding Hollow
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 273
  • Talents: Holy 2/1/1/2/0/0
  • RBG: 2493
  • LocationCanada

Posted 26 May 2013 - 06:41 PM

Anyone have the 4 set to test the damage? Holy damage bypasses armour plus stacking mastery directly increases holy damage and the 4 set turns TV damage into 100% holy damage. Plus the 2 set adds an extra 6% dmg from holy dmg on the target when you exorcsim people.
Doing the quick math, im assuming a fully mastery stacked pally will have about 42% mastery = 42% increased holy damage with templar's verdict which will yield some massive hits.
Would love to hear the results.

#2 Hofflerand

Hofflerand
  • Junkies
  • Posts: 198
  • LocationNY

Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:06 PM

Only got 2pc atm. Definitely want to try it, but I think it'd be better for arena if these set bonuses were disabled.

#3 Sabyth

Sabyth
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Uldaman
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 138
  • Talents: Arms

Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:09 PM

View PostBamflol, on 26 May 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Anyone have the 4 set to test the damage? Holy damage bypasses armour plus stacking mastery directly increases holy damage and the 4 set turns TV damage into 100% holy damage. Plus the 2 set adds an extra 6% dmg from holy dmg on the target when you exorcsim people.
Doing the quick math, im assuming a fully mastery stacked pally will have about 42% mastery = 42% increased holy damage with templar's verdict which will yield some massive hits.
Would love to hear the results.
Would be funny to see. You would lose about 5% damage from PvP Power loss, but also gain 2 gems from Shoulders and Pants. Seems very worth it to me.

I don't think your idea of Mastery it right though. It's just an extra hit for a % of what you hit for, not increased Holy damage. TV Should be ~38% larger with both bonuses and Inquisition up though and then it ignores armor which would be as much as double damage against some classes. This huge increase in TV damage would increase Mastery damage on it's own so Mastery would probably be competitive with Haste if you want max burst.

#4 Feliclandelo

Feliclandelo
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Shattered Hand
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 703
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/1

Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:52 PM

Not too thrilled of the idea.

#5 Bamflol

Bamflol
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Bleeding Hollow
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 273
  • Talents: Holy 2/1/1/2/0/0
  • RBG: 2493
  • LocationCanada

Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:00 PM

or if they just oh i don't know, implemented the 4 set as a passive ret thing so our TVs actually do damage. We were forced to use 2 set in s11 as well for judge holy power bonus which is now a passive ret ability.

#6 Feliclandelo

Feliclandelo
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Shattered Hand
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 703
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/1

Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:22 PM

Listen man, are you willing to give up 4500 PvP power for that setbonus and 2 extra gems?

Just saying.

#7 Bamflol

Bamflol
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Bleeding Hollow
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 273
  • Talents: Holy 2/1/1/2/0/0
  • RBG: 2493
  • LocationCanada

Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:25 PM

If i had the 4 set to see how hard it's hitting I could give you a response. The reason I posted this was to see if anyone had the 4 set and if they could provide feedback.

#8 Feliclandelo

Feliclandelo
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Shattered Hand
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 703
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/1

Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:47 PM

I doubt 1 templars verdict will offset 13% increased total damage.

#9 akadeys

akadeys
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 33
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/0/2
  • Locationcanada

Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:35 PM

If you want pve gear you would be better off getting some trink from a raid i think. I was also thinking Maybe t14 2 set? you would lose out on less pvp gear instead of going for a 4 set. it's a straight 15% more damage too TV.

#10 Wutangrza

Wutangrza
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Dark Iron
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 38
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/1/2
  • RBG: 384

Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:27 AM

View PostSabyth, on 26 May 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

Would be funny to see. You would lose about 5% damage from PvP Power loss, but also gain 2 gems from Shoulders and Pants. Seems very worth it to me.

I don't think your idea of Mastery it right though. It's just an extra hit for a % of what you hit for, not increased Holy damage. TV Should be ~38% larger with both bonuses and Inquisition up though and then it ignores armor which would be as much as double damage against some classes. This huge increase in TV damage would increase Mastery damage on it's own so Mastery would probably be competitive with Haste if you want max burst.

You lose way more damage than 5%.

It's absolutely not worth it, I have my 4 set.

If you remove 4 pieces of PvP gear as a ret paladin you lose 500 PvP power from 2 set, 1000 PvP power from 4 set, an amazing 4 set bonus, 1000 PvP power when you CS, and another 1827 PvP power from the actual pieces themselves. That's 4327 PvP power or 10.8% damage and an amazing 4 set bonus. You gain a pretty awful 2 set PvE bonus and a 4 set bonus that basically reads, "A move that makes up at most 20% of your damage in PvE (significantly less in PvP) now hits ~30% harder 40% of the time"

Losing 11% TOTAL damage and an amazing 4 set is not worth such a small gain.

#11 Avengelyne

Avengelyne
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Illidan
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 415
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/1/0/2
  • 2v2: 2021
  • 3v3: 2805
  • 5v5: 864
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationOntario! TDOT

Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:25 PM

View PostWutangrza, on 30 May 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

You lose way more damage than 5%.

It's absolutely not worth it, I have my 4 set.

If you remove 4 pieces of PvP gear as a ret paladin you lose 500 PvP power from 2 set, 1000 PvP power from 4 set, an amazing 4 set bonus, 1000 PvP power when you CS, and another 1827 PvP power from the actual pieces themselves. That's 4327 PvP power or 10.8% damage and an amazing 4 set bonus. You gain a pretty awful 2 set PvE bonus and a 4 set bonus that basically reads, "A move that makes up at most 20% of your damage in PvE (significantly less in PvP) now hits ~30% harder 40% of the time"

Losing 11% TOTAL damage and an amazing 4 set is not worth such a small gain.

Agree with everything except the "Amazing pvp 4 set". IMO its not that great.


The pve 4 set + mastery + divine purpose will allow you to pull off some obnoxious Templars, however I feel it may only be better than the pve setup in certain circumstances and only if you get lucky with procs. On average, i'd go with the pvp gear.

Edited by Veronica, 30 May 2013 - 06:26 PM.


#12 Feliclandelo

Feliclandelo
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Shattered Hand
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 703
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/1

Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:53 PM

View PostVeronica, on 30 May 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Agree with everything except the "Amazing pvp 4 set". IMO its not that great.


The pve 4 set + mastery + divine purpose will allow you to pull off some obnoxious Templars, however I feel it may only be better than the pve setup in certain circumstances and only if you get lucky with procs. On average, i'd go with the pvp gear.

Just no. There is no way, not even a "lucky case" scenario where you would want the 4set pve. You lose 4500 pvp power and the PvP setbonus.

#13 Avengelyne

Avengelyne
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Illidan
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 415
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/1/0/2
  • 2v2: 2021
  • 3v3: 2805
  • 5v5: 864
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationOntario! TDOT

Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:57 AM

View PostFeliclandelo, on 05 June 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Just no. There is no way, not even a "lucky case" scenario where you would want the 4set pve. You lose 4500 pvp power and the PvP setbonus.

Yes, there are many, and it's a choice that isn't very far off from pvp gear.

#14 Sakhet

Sakhet
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Ravencrest
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 17
  • Talents: Frost 2/2/1/0/2/1
  • 2v2: 1850
  • 3v3: 2001
  • RBG: 2189

Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:07 PM

I was theorycrafting about this for my alt as well, thanks people for the specific calculations.
Posted Image

#15 Sabyth

Sabyth
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Uldaman
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 138
  • Talents: Arms

Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:50 PM

11% less PvP Power /= 11% less damage. 5% was too generous, but including the extra gems it's still closer to 7%.

View PostWutangrza, on 30 May 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

"A move that makes up at most 20% of your damage in PvE (significantly less in PvP) now hits ~30% harder 40% of the time"
That's not why you'd want to use the 4pc. My Ret partner hit a Resto Shaman last night for a 100k TV including HoL damage. This set bonus would increase it by 30% to 130k, then double it (as Resto Shaman are usually around 50% armor mitigation) to 260k. That is an INSANELY huge hit, and that's before taking into account Mastery reforge which was just fixed/buffed. That could be 3/4+ of their health in one hit.

The only downside is that it's all RNG but how do you think Ele Shaman are getting random kills?

I'll agree that it's likely not worth it to use, and I wouldn't want to start seeing it in arena anyways, but you had a terrible understanding of why you'd want to use it in the first place.

#16 originalret

originalret
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Barthilas
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 97
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/0/0
  • RBG: 1851
  • LocationAus

Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:07 AM

11% loss in overall damage does need to be compensated for.

the compensation we have from the pve pieces are:
- 2 extra Yellow gem sockets (320 haste + 160str or 640 haste)
- SET BONUS: 5% increase holy damage with not 100% uptime (variable by haste)
- SET BONUS: chance on CS hit for next TV to do ~30% more damage from inq and no longer be reduced by targets armor (which results in harder hitting mastery + seals etc)
- an adjustment to socket bonuses:
- PVE 300str + 300crit
- PVP 420pvp power + 60 str
(NOTE: i am unsure if ilvl downscaling compensated for these figures as i have no pve set to test it with)
- a possible adjustment to meta gem: Capacative Primal Diamond
This gem can only be equipped into helmets of ilvl 502, meaning pvp helms cannot have it.
(NOTE: this would require testing to compare damage contribution of capacatance vs 216str + 3% crit dmg. This would be very difficult to test as the stat adjustments of respective helmets would also need to be considered)

realistically, nobody could give you a firm answer to this question based on all of the above just by using observation. even Simcraft would have difficulty providing a reliable figure, as i do not know if it can take pvp power into account for its algorithms.
someone would have to perform all possible gear setups listed above to determine if pve 4set is viable vs pvp gear.

Edited by originalret, 12 July 2013 - 04:03 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<