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#1 Crawthz

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:25 AM

Yo,

I've given this alot of thought lately: "Which way is the best way to gear in 5.3?" So I decided to make a thread about my thoughts and what I think that maximizes the gear you have from damage PoV. Also one of the reasons is the heavily nerfed burst we have now (PvP Power gems and scaling + Incanter's Ward nerfs), I am trying to maximize my damage just to get most out of my Shatters.

We got fairly huge item budget to go with now that 5.3 hit Live and Resilience and got nerfed. For example, Int/Hit is now equal or even better than Int/Power.

So, first of all, gems.
Intellect in every single slot where the socket bonus doesn't give Intellect.
Ignore socket bonuses on Chest, Boots and Legs, because these give you less damage if you follow the socket bonus.
Int/Hit on blue (maybe even int/power, not sure about that yet)
Int/Mastery on yellow (or Int/Haste if you need to hit a certain haste breakpoint, more later)

Then, reforging.
You want to reforge 12.5% (5316 rating) haste, or more. Rest into Mastery. You should reforge all Crit away into Haste or Mastery while keeping Hitcap.

Why 12.5%? Because after that, you wont gain any damage at all. Highest Haste I've seen now is 15.5% and with that, Polymorph cast time is 0.05sec faster,  Frostbolt 0.02sec and Frostbomb 0.03sec. I don't think that is much of a reason to go full-out on Haste.
12.5% is also the only Haste Breakpoint you can reach with current gear on Living Bomb and Nether Tempest, without using Frost Armor and playing with Shadowpriest/Eleshaman, and you'd lose 3000 Mastery and reduction on magic CC OR 16% physical damage reduction.

And well, in my opinion; it's pointless to go too much above Haste Breakpoints, because you lose stats that could increase your damage. Then again, haste is lovely stat and I love faster casts, but you could ask yourselves: "Is 5 millisecond faster Frostbolt worth it when you shatter with Deep + Orb?" You wont gain 2nd Frostbolt anyways.
But if you love fasters casts with going full-out haste, it's perfectly viable way to go. Just from damage point of view, it's not worth it.

Professions
Right now, with nerfed PvP Power and Resilience gems, the best way is to go with anything that gives you 320int, but do remember that having Blacksmithing always turns out to be the best, just because you can choose what gem you put there. I run BS/Enchanting myself right now and it seems to be one of the best options.

Then again, if you want to go full out proc heavy style, use Tailoring and Engineering with PvP Proc and PvE Proc trinkets (Darkmoon card is prolly the best if 2/2 upgraded)

PvE gear
If you want to use any, you should use the Darkmoon Card; Relic of Yu'lon 2/2 upgraded. I think everything else is more or less nerfed.
Rest of the PvE gear is not worth it in my opinion, outside of the PvE legendary meta and the PvE head you need to use it with, but I'd stay full PvP gear for now.

What bomb
I wanted to add this into gearing aswell, because this is what affects your playstyle and gearing aswell, quite heavily infact.
I would go Living Bomb in any setup I am playing, unless the comp allows me to play Frostbomb. Nether Tempest is out of the equation from now on, that bastard wont break my polymorphs anymore!

Additionaly
If, however, you like to go full out haste and love the style, you should consider using double Hit/Haste rings, 491 2/2 upgraded Malevolent and Tyrannical one. These two can achieve the highest amount of haste possible.

If you have any points I might have missed out or if you feel that I am completely wrong, please write down below what you think about this.

Here's Haste Calculator for Living Bomb and Nether Tempest, it's very handy for haste calculations
http://wowcalculator.com/#mage_frost

-Crawthz

Edited by Crawthz, 14 June 2013 - 11:04 PM.

www.twitch.tv/crawthz - Gladiator Frostmage stream, please follow!

#2 Guizado

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:19 AM

Thanks man, just what I was looking for. Just dinged 90 with my Maeg today.

#3 Icekingx

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:36 AM

This is a good post glad you took the time to do this rep.

Rawrbertlol, on 14 June 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Best signatures on entire website.
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#4 joaq

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

just in an RBG setting i was sittin at 29,50% haste goin all out haste reforge/gems and with frost armor + moonkin aura. felt awesome to say the least. i might have lost some shatter dmg but it felt good to be fucking casting shit!

#5 Devion87

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 07:44 AM

i wouldnt rate hit over pvp power but thats just a guess :P

#6 Crawthz

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PostDevion87, on 09 June 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

i wouldnt rate hit over pvp power but thats just a guess :P

Ye, but gemming hit allows you to reforge into mastery or haste. And Mastery is almost equal to Power in terms of important damage.
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#7 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:04 AM

View PostCrawthz, on 09 June 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Ye, but gemming hit allows you to reforge into mastery or haste. And Mastery is almost equal to Power in terms of important damage.
if it was only almost equal then gemming pvp power would still be better :P


View PostDevion87, on 09 June 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

i wouldnt rate hit over pvp power but thats just a guess :P
int > hit cap > haste = mastery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pvp power

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 09 June 2013 - 11:04 AM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#8 dionim

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 06:38 PM

on legs (bonus is 120 pvp power)

160 int is still better than 80 int 80 pvp power + 120 socket bonus?

#9 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:24 PM

View Postdionim, on 13 June 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

on legs (bonus is 120 pvp power)

160 int is still better than 80 int 80 pvp power + 120 socket bonus?
its close enough to make virtually no difference if u gem one or the other

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#10 Crawthz

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:26 PM

View Postdionim, on 13 June 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

on legs (bonus is 120 pvp power)

160 int is still better than 80 int 80 pvp power + 120 socket bonus?

It's 320 int vs 240 int + 200 power.

I'd say quickly drunken calculation that it's the same, although int gives more crit, so I'd gem 320 int into legs.
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#11 fant0m8

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:38 PM

View Postdionim, on 13 June 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

on legs (bonus is 120 pvp power)

160 int is still better than 80 int 80 pvp power + 120 socket bonus?

It's 80 int vs. 200 pvp power. (80 main stat if you want to generalize to any class - we all have the same socket bonuses.)

For me I go with the 200 pvp power for this reason: it scales with trinket procs and any other cooldown that adds spell power/int (or attack power/agi/str).

pvp power will multiply against that increased main stat (only 0.5% more, but hey every little bit helps), while adding main stat will not affect the proc at all.
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#12 Friedkitteh

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:59 PM

Good post! :)

#13 Tsx

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:20 AM

good posted +repped.
About the pve gear part tho, i found 2 pve items that are better than pvp, and thats the one that have +1 gem slot in it(except the hc bosses which i guess are hard for ppl to get,such as chest fro Ra-Den that gives haste+mastery), is the pants im wearing.I got them from lfr, they give 3 red sockets which are far better than the pvp ones.
I also saw a ring that gives 1 sockest but cba farming that one cuz i hate pve :P

#14 Nyhxy

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:48 PM

Haste <3

#15 Scarie95

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:22 PM

Would also say Haste all the way. There is probably math out there that would show haste at a certain point becomes less important, but at least for beginning mages haste is needed.

#16 Execx

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:13 PM

after a lot of debate with my friend inflow and thinking about this a lot we're both using different setups with these results (I personally think mine is still better but that's for you to decide), I'm just gonna list the differences between our sets because there's no point pointing out the obvious:

Mine:
21,900 Sp
17.74% Haste
6.04% Hit
11.10% Crit
33.80% Mastery
38.08% Power
66.13% Resi

Meta Sock: PvP (665 power + 775 resi)
Yellow Socks: 320 haste
Purple Socks: 80int + 80power
I'm using tyra crit ring but only because I deleted the 491 malev hit + haste ring (gonna buy the 476 and see what I get), we're also both using glorious stats enchant which I've noticed a lot of people not using.

Inflow:
22,089 Sp
17.69% Haste
6.01% Hit
10.69% Crit
35.46% Mastery
35.89% Power
65% Resi

Meta Sock: Burning (216 int +3% crit effect)
Yellow Socks: 80int +160 haste
Purple Socks: 80int +160 hit
He's using the 476 hit +haste ring

~~~~~~~

comparing the 2 he has 189 more int, .05 less haste, .41 less crit, 1.66 more mastery, 2.19 less power, 1.13 less resi

so gemming/forging the way you recommended imo has less stat values, when I get my ring I will have A LOT more haste.

Edited by Execx, 14 June 2013 - 09:20 PM.


#17 Crawthz

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:18 PM

View PostExecx, on 14 June 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

after a lot of debate with my friend inflow and thinking about this a lot we're both using different setups with these results (I personally think mine is still better but that's for you to decide), I'm just gonna list the differences between our sets because there's no point pointing out the obvious:

Mine:
21,900 Sp
17.74% Haste
6.04 Hit
11.10% Crit
33.80% Mastery
38.08% Power
66.13% Resi

Meta Sock: PvP (665 power + 775 resi)
Yellow Socks: 320 haste
Purple Socks: 80int + 80power
I'm using tyra crit ring but only because I deleted the 491 malev hit + haste ring (gonna buy the 476 and see what I get), we're also both using glorious stats enchant which I've noticed a lot of people not using.

Inflow:
22,089 Sp
17.69%
6.01% Hit
10.69% Crit
35.46% Mastery
35.89% Power
65% Resi

Meta Sock: Burning (216 int +3% crit effect)
Yellow Socks: 80int +160 haste
Purple Socks: 80int +160 hit
He's using the 476 hit +haste ring

~~~~~~~

comparing the 2 he has 189 more int, .05 less haste, .41 less crit, 1.66 more mastery, 2.19 less power, 1.13 less resi

so gemming/forging the way you recommended imo has less stat values, when I get my ring I will have A LOT more haste.

But why do you have that much haste, when you could have more mastery? Haste really is pointless stat after 12.5%.
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#18 Execx

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:06 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 14 June 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

But why do you have that much haste, when you could have more mastery? Haste really is pointless stat after 12.5%.

Because I like haste a lot, and I really really don't notice the difference in damage between 34% mastery and 40% mastery when i can REALLY tell the difference between 12% haste and almost 18% haste

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:01 PM

shud add haste rating for 12.5 so most ppl dont need to calculate n stuff, lucky im already at 12:55 ;<

#20 Crawthz

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:02 PM

View PostExecx, on 14 June 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

Because I like haste a lot, and I really really don't notice the difference in damage between 34% mastery and 40% mastery when i can REALLY tell the difference between 12% haste and almost 18% haste

Well 3% haste is around 0.05s, so you prolly have about 0.1sec faster casts than I do, but you have about 10% less damage on Lance and FFB + Shattered bombs/bolts. Well, as I said on the guide, gear how you like, nothing is right or wrong, but if you want to do most damage, 12.5% haste and rest Mastery is the best way to go.

I love Haste too, it's amazingly fun stat, but as said, from pure damage point of view, it's worthless stat to go, unless you can reach the next haste breakpoint (you need about 13.1k haste rating, which is 30,1% WITH Haste raidbuff for Living Bomb)

I have unbuffed (no armor, no intbuff):
22,633 SP
14.28% Haste
6.03% Hit
11.39% Crit
34.42% Mastery
37.95% PvP power
65% Resilience

View PostZerlog, on 14 June 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

shud add haste rating for 12.5 so most ppl dont need to calculate n stuff, lucky im already at 12:55 ;<

Added, it's 5316 for Living Bomb, next one being at 15947 (these are unbuffed values)

Edited by Crawthz, 14 June 2013 - 11:07 PM.

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