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#41 Infernion

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostPersephones, on 23 May 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

You wont reach any breakpoints and at worst case scenario you'll be trading 1:1 mastery with pvp power, whcih is still more damage

And yes I'm even taking downscale into consideration

And lei shen trinket has received a heavy nerf to its proc so I doubt it'd be worth it unless you simply want the passive int

That's not true.. I'm pretty sure Blizzard made it so the PvP gear has more stats, but because of the fact that they have PvP power, they won't be better for PvE anyways. You'd lose so many stats by using PvP parts instead of PvE parts, except trinket, I'm quite sure. So no, you won't be trading 1:1 mastery with PvP power.

Even if Lei'shen trinket got nerfed, I still believe it could be pretty amazing with the passive intellect still there, and the proc still being very beneficial.

And yes, you would be able to reach new breakpoints by going haste, I'm just not sure it's worth it, since I haven't checked it out yet. It would also help you get more casts off, fears for example.

Edited by Infernion, 23 May 2013 - 05:21 PM.


#42 Persephones

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:52 PM

View PostInfernion, on 23 May 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

That's not true.. I'm pretty sure Blizzard made it so the PvP gear has more stats, but because of the fact that they have PvP power, they won't be better for PvE anyways. You'd lose so many stats by using PvP parts instead of PvE parts, except trinket, I'm quite sure. So no, you won't be trading 1:1 mastery with PvP power.

So you're dismissing the idea of pve gear based off your gutfeel that Blizzard has done the right thing, without even bothering to look at the numbers?

I'll just throw them out here in case you didn't bother to look at the weight stats which were presented earlier;

PvP Power atm is so weak that it's almost 1 int = 3 pvp power. 1 int is worth slightly less than 2 mastery.

If we take the PvE bracers - http://www.wowhead.c...=95708#comments

They can have 712 mastery at ilvl 502, they'll be downscaled to 496, so even if they get reduced to 500 mastery, they'll still have 23 more than our current ones, plus a secondary stat. Ontop of that they'll have a socket, which you can fit a 360 mastery gem in to receive another 60 intellect. Mastery is worth 0.11373, where as PvP power is worth 0.07108. In this case you'll be trading 272 PvP power for a socket. So in other words, you'll be trading 360 mastery + 60 intellect for 272 PvP power, not counting in the difference of the mastery on the piece itself compared to the pvp counter part.

Edited by Persephones, 23 May 2013 - 05:53 PM.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#43 Infernion

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 06:30 PM

View PostPersephones, on 23 May 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

So you're dismissing the idea of pve gear based off your gutfeel that Blizzard has done the right thing, without even bothering to look at the numbers?

No. I have the PvE gear, joined a battleground and looked at the gear scaled down. I'm well aware of the stat weights.

#44 Persephones

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 07:08 PM

Maybe post the stats then instead of just saying "no"? Because as far as I can see, they'll drop 6 ilvls, and it's limited to how far 712 mastery will drop.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#45 Infernion

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:42 PM

I'll post the stats on the items you requested, but to show what I mean lets take a look at the Sha-Skin Leggings. They have the same stats as the PvP ones (haste and mastery). I know they don't have a socket, but lets see how they compare to the PvP ones.

Scaled down, the Sha-Skin Leggings has those stats:

1835 stamina
1143 intellect
775 mastery
775 haste
A red socket (80 intellect and 160 mastery)
Socket bonus on 60 intellect

The PvP ones has:

1835 stamina
1063 intellect
655 haste
815 mastery
488 PvP power
A red socket (80 intellect and 160 mastery)
A blue socket (160 mastery and 160 or 160 mastery and 160 PvP power I guess)
Socket bonus on 60 intellect

So compared, by using the PvP ones you'd get:

+40 Mastery
-120 Haste
-80 Intellect
+488 PvP power
+A blue socket

To me that proves that Blizzard itemized the PvP gear so it would be better than PvE gear at the same level for PvP, but not for PvE.

Ro'shak's Remembrance scaled down:

1022 stamina
602 intellect
313 mastery
291 crit
(193 haste reforged, else 193 more crit)
Blue socket (160 mastery and 160 PvP power, or 160 mastery and 160 hit)
Socket bonus on 60 haste (I suppose you could skip socket bonus here, and gem full mastery)

Compared to the PvP rings, that's:

-80 Intellect
-86 Mastery or Haste
-3 Hit or Crit (which would be reforged of course)
-272 PvP power
+ Blue socket
+ Socket bonus if you go for it

So basicly, it comes down to 80 intellect + 86 mastery or haste + 272 PvP power vs. a blue socket and its bonus.

Frostborn Wristwraps scaled down:

1022 stamina
602 intellect
673 mastery or haste (depending on what stat is on them)
Yellow socket
Socket bonus on 60 intellect

Against the PvP ones, you'd get, assuming you go for the mastery bracers:

-80 intellect
-399 haste
-272 PvP power
+186 mastery
+ a yellow socket (320 mastery)
+ socket bonus on 60 intellect

That's 20 intellect + 399 haste + 272 PvP power vs. 506 mastery, I know what I'd prefer at least :)

On the trinkets, Light of the Cosmos and Breath of the Hydra is exactly the same scaled down, which is:

1152 haste (can reforge to mastery)
5757 intellect proc for 20 seconds

Wushoolay's Final Choice scaled down:

692 hit
460 mastery (reforged from hit)
1047 intellect every 2 seconds for 20 seconds proc

Essence of Terror:

1152 intellect
6908 haste for 20 seconds proc

Edited by Infernion, 23 May 2013 - 09:51 PM.


#46 Pritchard

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:50 PM

im kind of curious about how strong the 496 tier will be, i'm not sure which tier it is, but whatever the HoF/ToES one is.  You get the 10% bonus to corruption from the 2 set, so you just miss out on 10% agony and ua damage, but you also gain the 4 set which is 40 sec less CD on Dark Soul.  I think that could be REALLY strong for comps like LSD, Dk/lock, etc.

#47 Infernion

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:01 PM

View PostPersephones, on 23 May 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

If we take the PvE bracers - http://www.wowhead.c...=95708#comments

They can have 712 mastery at ilvl 502, they'll be downscaled to 496, so even if they get reduced to 500 mastery, they'll still have 23 more than our current ones, plus a secondary stat. Ontop of that they'll have a socket, which you can fit a 360 mastery gem in to receive another 60 intellect. Mastery is worth 0.11373, where as PvP power is worth 0.07108. In this case you'll be trading 272 PvP power for a socket. So in other words, you'll be trading 360 mastery + 60 intellect for 272 PvP power, not counting in the difference of the mastery on the piece itself compared to the pvp counter part.

They won't have another secondary stat. That's the special thing about those bracers, they only have one secondary stat, just a lot of it. The mastery bracers only have mastery on them.

Edited by Infernion, 23 May 2013 - 10:02 PM.


#48 Infernion

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:13 PM

View Posthairpiece, on 23 May 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

im kind of curious about how strong the 496 tier will be, i'm not sure which tier it is, but whatever the HoF/ToES one is.  You get the 10% bonus to corruption from the 2 set, so you just miss out on 10% agony and ua damage, but you also gain the 4 set which is 40 sec less CD on Dark Soul.  I think that could be REALLY strong for comps like LSD, Dk/lock, etc.

The 10 % corruption comes along with the 10 % to agony and UA as far as I know? The 2 part bonuses are 500 PvP power and the twilight ward buff. But yeah, the reduced CD on Dark Soul would be nice, but I highly doubt it's worth losing the 4 part and a lot of stats due to it, as you'll also be way above hit cap in tier 14 gear :)

#49 Pritchard

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:30 PM

View PostInfernion, on 23 May 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

The 10 % corruption comes along with the 10 % to agony and UA as far as I know? The 2 part bonuses are 500 PvP power and the twilight ward buff. But yeah, the reduced CD on Dark Soul would be nice, but I highly doubt it's worth losing the 4 part and a lot of stats due to it, as you'll also be way above hit cap in tier 14 gear :)

the 2 piece of the tier gear is also 10% damage bonus to corruption.  Missing out on 10% from ua and corruption might be worth it for a 1 min 20s cd dark soul in dot heavy comps. I'm not too bummed about pvp power loss, you can still get reasonable pvp power from off pieces + weapons.





e:  http://www.wowhead.com/itemset=1143 is the set im referring too.

Edited by hairpiece, 23 May 2013 - 10:32 PM.


#50 Infernion

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:11 PM

View Posthairpiece, on 23 May 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

the 2 piece of the tier gear is also 10% damage bonus to corruption.  Missing out on 10% from ua and corruption might be worth it for a 1 min 20s cd dark soul in dot heavy comps. I'm not too bummed about pvp power loss, you can still get reasonable pvp power from off pieces + weapons.





e:  http://www.wowhead.com/itemset=1143 is the set im referring too.

Ah, yeah I get you now, I thought you meant that the 10 % corruption buff was a part of the PvP 2 piece, and not the 4 piece :D My bad!
But yeah, it could maybe be good, but I doubt it a lot, seeing as you'd lose so many stats, the 4 piece from PvP set AND be far above the hit cap, which would just be plain wasted stats :)

#51 floose

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:28 AM

confirmed that breath of hydra lasts 40secs and has a proc of 5757 int and passive 1152 haste

#52 Segathor

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:01 PM

any thoughts about the tyranical meta gem vs the burning primal diamond? seeing the dmg we take from cleave..kinda scary

#53 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:11 PM

View Postfloose, on 25 May 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

confirmed that breath of hydra lasts 40secs and has a proc of 5757 int and passive 1152 haste
the proc is 2879 int, not 5757

View PostSegathor, on 25 May 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

any thoughts about the tyranical meta gem vs the burning primal diamond? seeing the dmg we take from cleave..kinda scary
the pvp power on the elite gem increases your damage more then the 216 int on the normal meta, and the extra resilience is probably more useful for you then the 3% extra crit damage

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 25 May 2013 - 12:12 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#54 Infernion

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:11 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 25 May 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

the proc is 2879 int, not 5757


Yeah, the numbers in my post is just scaled down while you look at the gear, so the trinkets you'll have to divide the proc by 2, and multiply the duration by 2, if that's what the change was for that exact trinket.

I tried relic and breath of the hydra yesterday, and they seemed to have a quite high uptime as affliction, seeing as they last for so long. They seemed REALLY good. Will have to try it more though :)

I'm not sure what meta gem I'll be using yet, but most likely the PvP one. Will have to try that out aswell though, to see if the resilience is actually needed after the patch :)

Edited by Infernion, 25 May 2013 - 01:12 PM.


#55 Nadagast

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:08 PM

Has anyone actually tested gems for destro and demo?  I think I remember someone saying that int is best for destro, but I'm not sure I've seen anything for demo.  I'll probably run some tests later today if nobody has run tests.

Also, any opinions on secondary stats for destro/demo?  I wonder if haste or crit can compete with mastery.

#56 Dreamex

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:58 PM

Ive tried int vs mastery for both destro and demo.  

For demo, going full mastery makes ToC/doom/chaoswave each hit for slightly more, but pet damage,fel flame, corruption, wild imps, soulfires, and HoGs all hit for less. Overall damage is higher with int, and burst is fairly equal.  Int feels like the way to go.

For destro, full mastery makes chaos bolts and shadowburns do more damage, but everything else does less. I'd say it comes down to preference.

Note current simcraft says mastery is slightly better for overall dmg for both, but this isnt true in pvp gear.

#57 mdnorth

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 12:00 AM

Is the new pvp meta worth purchasing?

#58 Mardz

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:40 AM

Would be cool if some1 would do some more detailed tests about destro gemming and maybe about, as Nadagastt said, other stats (haste, crit), if they can compete with mastery.

As for pvp meta socket, I think that it might be better for affly spec, but not sure if it's better than intel/crit meta socket for demo and destro, especially for destro.

#59 Xaderfos

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:04 PM

I played some 2s games as destro with around 75% mastery.Sadly chaos bolt was hitting for around 100k with dark soul up.
I got a couple of 120k chaos bolts aswell but it was with yu'lon trinket proc and tailoring enchant.
My ilvl is 494 atm mostly tyranical with yu'lon trinket.
Gonna try again tomorow with more crit (since i am plying affliction mostly and reforge all crit to haste)and will post the numbers i will get.

Also my first post :)

#60 harrydotterz

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:36 AM

mastery is def the way to go for demo and affliction, but for destro staying intellect stacking is the only way your chaosbolts and incinerates wont hit for wet noodles




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