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#21 UltimaJay

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:58 PM

I only do it when there's one player left in the Arena and absolutely no chance of losing.

Basically never.
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#22 GrieverZ

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:20 PM

[quote name='UltimaJay' timestamp='1372085935' post='3904082']
I only do it when there's one player left in the Arena and absolutely no chance of losing.

Basically never.
[/quote]

Thats what i thought ;p.

#23 Shridevi

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:26 PM

This is a good guide but I'd have to say a lot of things have changed 5.3.

Charging Ox Wave is extremely valuable IMO with all of the hunter comps, disc priests, and so forth.  Along with disarm and paralysis (weak) you can use it to stop a scatter trap or fear bomb as well as open a CC chain on a healer or peel for your teammates.  30 sec CD and range are the main advantages and it's not difficult to stun 2-3 people if well-aimed.  In addition, people are literally not prepared for you to use this ability because monks never choose it.

Ring of peace is basically crap, a 3 sec disarm which usually is 1.5 sec based on class/enchant, does nothing but guarantee immunity to disarms within 3 secs of when it's cast.  It's useful for maybe 5s and rbgs, and some 3s comps where you absolutely need anything you can get to stop a burst.  Why would you 3 sec disarm when you have a 4/8sec disarm already, and paralysis as another peel, and charging ox wave or leg sweep as a third peel?  Same for the silence effect, every 45 seconds you get a 3s blanket?

Leg Sweep I find sort of an extreme.  It doesn't peel well and it's probably saved for a kill.  Otherwise there's no real reason to have 5s close proximity stun on 45sec CD.  How are you going to go out to the open and stun to peel melee?  Or stun a rdruid, hpal, disc when they can clearly open CC on you much easier?  You are opening with paralysis so 4 second CC that wastes disorient DR, to get a 5sec stun?  Why not open with a 3 second stun and full 6 second paralyze, if it's the same length and can be done 50% more often?

Paralysis is amazing as a PEEL CC, because it cannot be dispelled.  If you play with a hunter or anything that has a decent disorient it's a waste to use on a healer.  If you're playing a comp where you're the main disorient CC (preferable) it's also amazing on healers, but I would really understand it as a great peel CC, and of course the glyph is mandatory.  Paralysis shouldn't be macroed to players IMO, it should be a mouseover macro bound to a mouse button so you can properly gauge the range/position of the player you want to paralyze as you do it, not to mention paralyze psyfiends on the spot.

Ascension does NOT give the most mp5 back if you are playing a game longer than ~6 minutes where you're not able to drink to 100% full.  It really returns terrible mana, you can read on elitistjerks; the only advantage is starting with 45k more mana and replenishing that 45k with a drink to full.

Power Strikes is the best for both mp5 and heals, it gives you a steady flow of chi with some leeway for unwise chi usage as it drops spheres next to you.  It gives 4% mana every 1:20 minutes (so 18% mana at 6 minutes) assuming that you use chi correctly.  The best mp5 is not wasting chi ever, every 1 chi you waste is 1% mana lost.  In 3s it's much easier to manage chi than in 5s or rbgs where you're forced to spam surging mist.  In addition the extra flow of chi enables you to cast enveloping mist more freely, which means you cast less surging mist, which means you save more mana.

Chi torpedo and Xuen are personal preferences.  The benefit for torpedo is you can heal while locked out or silenced, and have some mobility to avoid CC.  I feel it's overrated unless you feel you're going to be trained in a particular game.  Even then I get by fine 95% of the time with just roll, transcendence, CDs, peels, and so forth.  If it's triple dps chi torpedo with battlemaster's is good.  Some people like to John Rambo a bit:  torpedo over to someone, leg sweep or interrupt, then torpedo back or pillar hug.  I think this is totally unrealistic above 2k MMR, with hunter comps you can guarantee a loss.

The benefit to Xuen in 3s is not usually damage but healing via eminence.  You're playing a comp that will surely open CC you and pop everything:  if you can get Xuen off it will provide offhealing along with your hots, spheres (which hopefully you put down), and so forth.  In addition you can add decent pressure by sending Xuen to a hunter/DK's pet, it will provide healing and you can literally solo the pet with Xuen/jade lightning while your teammates do something else.

Revival is amazing for 3 reasons:  free dispel on both teammates, instant heal on teammates out of LOS or range, and instant heal in general.  Save it for the first 2 reasons IMO.  If your teammates are going for a kill and get fear-bombed use it.  Try not to waste it just topping people off.

I see some high ranked MWs going completely mastery in 3s, sacrificing major int, spirit, crit, haste, everything.  It will probably be around 15% less healing with poor mana regen, and not all spells trigger mastery well, but heals like renewing mist will give a steady flow of bubbles if you're CC'ed.  Worth checking out maybe.

Just my $0.02.

#24 Batenx

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:41 AM

[quote name='GrieverZ' timestamp='1372076546' post='3904045']
Nice guide ^^.

Gearing my Monk to heal out of boredom and for a change of pace, something i've been wondering tough is when do you actually Jab/Tiger Palm/Blackout Kick. Seems pretty risky to put yourself in a bad position for little return.
[/quote]

It's situational when you use it. Usually if you have time to assist damage you go for Crackling Jade Lightning, as it doesn't put you out of positioning because of its rather ridiculous range. But sometimes Jab/Tiger's Palm/Blackout Kick can be more useful. I really can't give you examples of when it's better, because it depends on waaay too many factors. What comp you're playing, what comp they're playing, what cooldowns you have left, what cooldowns they have left, if they have ranged interrupts ready, if they have melee interrupts ready, if you have trinkets ready, if they have trinkets ready, what map you're playing on, and so forth, haha. Though, I can tell you that the way to go is Tiger's Palm over Blackout Kick as it only costs 1 Chi (atleast in a 3v3 situation).

Edited by Batenx, 09 July 2013 - 11:41 AM.

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#25 Batenx

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:43 AM

[quote name='Shridevi' timestamp='1372886786' post='3907915']
This is a good guide but I'd have to say a lot of things have changed 5.3.
[/quote]

You're completely right! A lot of things have changed in 5.3, but sadly I haven't had the time to update anything because of other things getting in my way :(

I'll try do my best and update it whenever I catch a few spare minutes!
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#26 Dubar

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 02:39 AM

Do you guys normally go for 1h+oh or 2h? :)
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#27 GrieverZ

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 04:29 PM

[quote name='Shridevi' timestamp='1372886786' post='3907915']
Charging Ox Wave is extremely valuable IMO with all of the hunter comps, disc priests, and so forth.  Along with disarm and paralysis (weak) you can use it to stop a scatter trap or fear bomb as well as open a CC chain on a healer or peel for your teammates.  30 sec CD and range are the main advantages and it's not difficult to stun 2-3 people if well-aimed.  In addition, people are literally not prepared for you to use this ability because monks never choose it.[/quote]

Agreed with that, probably one of our most under-rated ability, for MW.

#28 Batenx

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:03 PM

[quote name='Dubar' timestamp='1375065541' post='3919558']
Do you guys normally go for 1h+oh or 2h? :)
[/quote]

Really doesn't make a big difference, so just choose whatever you prefer. I personally chose to go for the MH + OH combo. Though, I have a staff in my bags if I really feel I have to use it.
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#29 Batenx

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:04 PM

Updated the guide for 5.4. Still a few things left to update, so stay tuned!
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#30 Sartgodx

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:53 AM

I still don't get what the preferred playstyle for mistweaver monks is right now. Is our primary heal healing sphere spam or soothing mist now? I mean, ofc I'm trying to keep up hots, expel harm + tier 2 talent on CD, surging mist when thunder tea is up, etc. But what's my bread & butter heal? Or is it comp-dependant? (Aka use spheres with mates that are moving "slowly", aka locks, and soothing mist on fast moving ones like ferals?)

Already thanks to anyone who can clear that up for me :)
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#31 Primius

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:31 PM

[quote name='Sartgodx' timestamp='1380023600' post='3947022']
I still don't get what the preferred playstyle for mistweaver monks is right now. Is our primary heal healing sphere spam or soothing mist now? I mean, ofc I'm trying to keep up hots, expel harm + tier 2 talent on CD, surging mist when thunder tea is up, etc. But what's my bread & butter heal? Or is it comp-dependant? (Aka use spheres with mates that are moving "slowly", aka locks, and soothing mist on fast moving ones like ferals?)

Already thanks to anyone who can clear that up for me :)
[/quote]

Sphere are near worthless unless you are using them to heal lock/ele/shadow or yourself.  I am doing worse this season on my monk then I did last season. The class feels much worse this season in comparison to last.  Revival is junk, and now that healing spheres are so weak because of the BF increase, I find it very hard to keep people up since every team has 2-3 purge classes.

Enveloping Mist and Renew gets dispelled faster then I can put it up.

I am doing better on my priest which I have been pvping on for a total of 6 days, then I am on my MW.

I think I am done with this spec until the next expansion.

#32 Sartgodx

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:33 PM

[quote name='Primius' timestamp='1380036680' post='3947168']
Sphere are near worthless against anything not a lock/ele/shadow.  I am doing worse this season on my monk then I did last season. The class feels much worse this season in comparison to last.  Revival is junk, and now that healing spheres are so weak because of the BF increase, I find it very hard to keep people up since every team has 2-3 purge classes.

Enveloping Mist and Renew gets dispelled faster then I can put it up.

I am doing better on my priest which I have been pvping on for a total of 6 days, then I am on my MW.

I think I am done with this spec until the next expansion.
[/quote]

I already figured something like this is the case atm :/ So for those like me still wanting to play the spec though, you think spheres would only be worth it against non-mage/boomkin casters? Additional question: Would there be any difference in stat priorities for sphere or soothing mist gameplay?
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#33 Primius

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:09 PM

[quote name='Sartgodx' timestamp='1380043995' post='3947234']
I already figured something like this is the case atm :/ So for those like me still wanting to play the spec though, you think spheres would only be worth it against non-mage/boomkin casters? Additional question: Would there be any difference in stat priorities for sphere or soothing mist gameplay?
[/quote]

I didn't explain the use of spheres well in my post so let me restate.

Healing Spheres are very hard to use unless you are using them to heal targets to naturally move slow. Warlocks, Shadow Priest, and Elemental Shaman make the best teammates for using healing spheres as a main burst heal. Trying to heal a hunter or feral with healing spheres is freaking not even worth the trouble.

From my experience int/crit/spirit is great for spheres. Spirit/int/crit is best for soothing/surging playstyle.

#34 Primius

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:10 PM

Oh yeah out of 1003 ranked players...there are a total of 4 Mistweaver Monks ranked on the 3v3 ladder in the USA.

GG

#35 Sartgodx

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:39 PM

So Summary is:

- Spheres when playing with a lock/ele/sp
- Sooth when playing with everything else
- Spirit-heavy when using spheres
- Crit-heavy when using Sooth

Anyone else has some additions/contradictions to that? Not that I don't believe you, it also makes sense for me, just interested in other players' opinions.
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#36 zenton

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:04 AM

Regarding Spheres..

Am I missing something or they are extremely powerful when those bubbles actually heal? A monk is literally unkillable if he starts to spam bubbles and not even he's mana starts to drop. Did they buff those? Regarding my research many claim that it can do 60-80k heal easily for 6k mana, after battle fatigue. If this is true then it will just further encourage to cc the monk all day.. Wich is a bad design. It would not be the bast way to fix MW..

#37 drockzo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:18 PM

[quote name='zenton' timestamp='1380704648' post='3952568']
Regarding Spheres..

Am I missing something or they are extremely powerful when those bubbles actually heal? A monk is literally unkillable if he starts to spam bubbles and not even he's mana starts to drop. Did they buff those? Regarding my research many claim that it can do 60-80k heal easily for 6k mana, after battle fatigue. If this is true then it will just further encourage to cc the monk all day.. Wich is a bad design. It would not be the bast way to fix MW..
[/quote]Tbh I think they feel far less powerful this patch, when MS is up im getting like 55k crits which is fine but it's nowhere as good as it was before. Especially when you consider that they can be misplaced and not heal your team mate at all

#38 Railander

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:49 PM

very nice guide for my recently 90-boosted monk, but

[quote][color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Reforging as Mistweaver is fairly straightforward; you go for soft Haste cap (2348 Haste in Stance of the Fierce Tiger) for an extra tick of Enveloping Mist. After that you [b]max out your Crit and then Mastery[/b].[/background][/size][/font][/color][/quote]

[quote][u]Shoulders:[/u][color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)] 200 Intellect and 100 Critical Strike[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[u]Cloak: [/u][color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]180 Intellect[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[u]Chest:[/u][color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)] 80 All Stats[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[u]Bracers:[/u][color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)] 180 Intellect[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[b][u]Gloves:[/u][color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)] 170 Haste[/background][/size][/font][/color][/b]
[u]Legs:[/u][color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)] 285 Intellect and 165 Spirit[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[u]Boots:[/u][color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)] 140 Mastery & Minor Speed Increase[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[u]Weapon:[/u][color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)] Jade Spirit[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[u]Off-hand:[/u][color=#282828][font=verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)] 165 Intellect[/background][/size][/font][/color][/quote]

there is actually a mastery enchant for gloves besides 170 haste if i'm not mistaken.

Edited by Railander, 12 March 2014 - 02:49 PM.

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#39 forumsloveme

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:53 PM

[quote name='Railander' timestamp='1394635777' post='4077427']
very nice guide for my recently 90-boosted monk, but





there is actually a mastery enchant for gloves besides 170 haste if i'm not mistaken.
[/quote]

Guide is outdated, mastery is your lowest priority stat.
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#40 Railander

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 06:37 PM

[quote name='drockzo' timestamp='1380748691' post='3953111']
Tbh I think they feel far less powerful this patch, when MS is up im getting like 55k crits which is fine but it's nowhere as good as it was before. Especially when you consider that they can be misplaced and not heal your team mate at all
[/quote]
i dont know where all these crazy claims about spheres being worse are coming from. sure, BF is higher, but i dont see why anyone would even compare one skill to another based on BF (unless things like overhealing come into account). it affects literally all heals the same, for all classes across the board.
base resil is also equally higher to balance out the lower healing.

of course, that is unless they nerfed spheres and im just not aware of it...

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