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#41 Korzul

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:56 AM

Quote

or a reliable stun

Screw that, cap totems one of the more fun abilities in this game and the last thing wow needs is more instant stupid stuns to derp through.

#42 Deadscumlord

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:11 AM

View PostKorzul, on 17 May 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Screw that, cap totems one of the more fun abilities in this game and the last thing wow needs is more instant stupid stuns to derp through.

+rep for being sensible bro.. thank you

#43 Doomnatrah

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:22 AM

View PostKorzul, on 17 May 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Screw that, cap totems one of the more fun abilities in this game and the last thing wow needs is more instant stupid stuns to derp through.

actually it doesnt have to be instant to make it more reliable, in fact for teams that kill cap totem it would be nice if Ele had the option to swap out glyphs for Vigor, or they could baseline give it more HP.

I agree that cap totem can be fun with projection.  However some teams make it a mission to kill cap totem insta.  Sometimes you can drop it behind a pillar and project it but that makes it a very clunky mechanic.  Would just be nice for it to be a bit harder to kill which makes it more reliable.  I actually dont want it to be like deep or Hoj, so there is that.

#44 Nerfmytotems

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:30 AM

View PostKorzul, on 17 May 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:



Screw that, cap totems one of the more fun abilities in this game and the last thing wow needs is more instant stupid stuns to derp through.

I agree there is a lot of herping and derping at the moment, but why should ele be left behind every other class.

You have 2 options really.  1) reduce the stuns cc etc from every other class and bring everyone down to elementals level.   2) you bring elemental up to the same level as the other classes.


Regarding capacitor totem though, you know that if you hit someone with it you have a good giggle, "putting capacitor down, LOL they got hit by capacitor what bads lol...."  You don't see the same with say deep freeze... "I'm depfreezing lol he he got deep freezed ... What bads"

And that's even when you have to glyph and talent for it......and use 3gcd too

Edited by Nerfmytotems, 17 May 2013 - 02:44 AM.


#45 Nerfmytotems

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:38 AM

View PostDoomnatrah, on 17 May 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:



actually it doesnt have to be instant to make it more reliable, in fact for teams that kill cap totem it would be nice if Ele had the option to swap out glyphs for Vigor, or they could baseline give it more HP.

I agree that cap totem can be fun with projection.  However some teams make it a mission to kill cap totem insta.  Sometimes you can drop it behind a pillar and project it but that makes it a very clunky mechanic.  Would just be nice for it to be a bit harder to kill which makes it more reliable.  I actually dont want it to be like deep or Hoj, so there is that.

This.... Make the glyph baseline and let the totem have more HP

I played a 2300 warr/Mage/hpal  2x15 minute games. Didn't land 1 capacitor, instant killed every time, even with the warrior rooted, he was throwing stuff @ it if he was out of range for melee, let alone the pally and the Mage instant cast killing it.  

Those games I had speced into earth grab & totemic projection, glyph end for cap totem too...

One again to use a a Mage as an alternative, you would cry if they couldn't land 1 deep freeze in 30 mins

The other problem is we don't have a blanket or anything to stop the healer from dispelling it even if we do land it.....

Edited by Nerfmytotems, 17 May 2013 - 02:48 AM.


#46 Doomnatrah

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 03:38 AM

View PostNerfmytotems, on 17 May 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:

This.... Make the glyph baseline and let the totem have more HP

I played a 2300 warr/Mage/hpal  2x15 minute games. Didn't land 1 capacitor, instant killed every time, even with the warrior rooted, he was throwing stuff @ it if he was out of range for melee, let alone the pally and the Mage instant cast killing it.  

Those games I had speced into earth grab & totemic projection, glyph end for cap totem too...

One again to use a a Mage as an alternative, you would cry if they couldn't land 1 deep freeze in 30 mins

The other problem is we don't have a blanket or anything to stop the healer from dispelling it even if we do land it.....

yep, i havent played live for a couple weeks but last time i had a similar situation among the countless others previous.  Cap totem is such a weird ability in regards to how people react to you dropping it. Some people instant kill it, some people try to avoid it and some people just plain ignore it.  It has happened vs every skill level of team.  At 2300 mmr had many teams ignore it, had some killing it, some trying to run from it.  Throughout 2k + there really wasnt a skill level issue, just for some reason some people make it their mission to kill them.

#47 Jontex

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:16 AM

Hitting cap stuns is fairly easy if you are just smart about it, use it far away so people dont see the nameplate or use it out of LoS and then run out and throw it. However cap stun not working properly on stairs and environments such as the tomb on ruins needs some looking at!
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#48 Doomnatrah

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:39 AM

View PostJontex, on 17 May 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Hitting cap stuns is fairly easy if you are just smart about it, use it far away so people dont see the nameplate or use it out of LoS and then run out and throw it. However cap stun not working properly on stairs and environments such as the tomb on ruins needs some looking at!

Hitting them can be fairly easy depending on the comp you are facing.  If you are getting trained its hard to land at times simply because it has 5 hit points and it sticks out like a sore thumb.  Its just not always an option to range the enemy team or to drop it around a pillar.  Depending on the comp you are playing, Ele Mage for instance i found that if you're being trained and the melee on you is going to kill cap totem anyways to project it to the healer before the dps has a chance to melee it.


Since we are on the subject of Cap Totem, what is your favorite map/situation to use it? Personally my favorite map/situation is cap projecting on blades edge ontop of the ramp into Tstorm to split the team stunned.  Least favorite is probably Ruins, seems like if the enemy team is hugging the tomb its hard to land a stun due to slight LoS problems.

Also FYI in case some of you didnt know you can project in ghostwolf form, pretty handy.

Edited by Doomnatrah, 17 May 2013 - 05:41 AM.


#49 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:45 AM

View PostDoomnatrah, on 17 May 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

The reason Ele needs dispel protection is because our ability to burst is directly tied to flame shock which has a cooldown.  In fact because of the new dispel system, and cooldown on flame shock, Ele Shamans are more warranted for a form of dispel protection than the traditional UA Lock or Spriest simply because VT and UA have no CD.
Did I actually read that? Shadowpriest mana is directly tied to cast time dots, all affliction damage is directly tied to dots, part of an eles burst is tied to an instant cast dot, so therefore eles deserve dispel protection more then others? :D

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#50 Baht

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:02 AM

View PostJontex, on 17 May 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Hitting cap stuns is fairly easy if you are just smart about it, use it far away so people dont see the nameplate or use it out of LoS and then run out and throw it. However cap stun not working properly on stairs and environments such as the tomb on ruins needs some looking at!

i agree i dont find it hard to land tbh. and i dont even play projection 9/10 games. To be fair though i do tend to use it on dps a lot more often than healers cause i cant push in with it. But that should have the same implications as hitting healers with projection right? i just earthgrap and then drop the cap totem inside the earthgrap totem and make sure both are out of melee range. With the glyph Its rare ppl actually notice and target the right one and kill it in time. It does take some practice always landing them on top of each other but just spend like 30min in elwynn practicing how much to rotate the character

View PostDizzeeyo, on 17 May 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Did I actually read that? Shadowpriest mana is directly tied to cast time dots, all affliction damage is directly tied to dots, part of an eles burst is tied to an instant cast dot, so therefore eles deserve dispel protection more then others? :D

well i dont agree ele needs dispell protection, but i think he's saying cause both vt and ua have no cd and flame shock have 5 sec + its tied to both earth shock and frost shock

Edited by Baht, 17 May 2013 - 10:52 AM.


#51 Doomnatrah

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:04 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 17 May 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Did I actually read that? Shadowpriest mana is directly tied to cast time dots, all affliction damage is directly tied to dots, part of an eles burst is tied to an instant cast dot, so therefore eles deserve dispel protection more then others? :D

What im saying is flameshock is just as important to ele dmg as VT to spriest or UA to locks.  Im saying with the current system in theory, Ele could easily be warranted for dispel protection just as much as spriest and UA Lock.  

Example. Apply flame shock to target, healer dispels flame shock, wait 5 seconds to reapply flameshock
Spriest casts VT, healer dispels VT, gets horrified, Spriest reapplies VT before healer is out of horrify
UA Lock casts UA, healer dispels UA, gets silenced and takes dmg, UA Lock reapplies UA before healer is out of silence.

Out of which spec is getting the shaft here?

#52 Drye

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:44 PM

yeah, i really miss the 90% hastebuff for dispelling fs.. would be nice if it came back, even nerfed to 30 or 50%.
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#53 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:29 PM

View PostDoomnatrah, on 17 May 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

What im saying is flameshock is just as important to ele dmg as VT to spriest or UA to locks.  Im saying with the current system in theory, Ele could easily be warranted for dispel protection just as much as spriest and UA Lock.  

Example. Apply flame shock to target, healer dispels flame shock, wait 5 seconds to reapply flameshock
Spriest casts VT, healer dispels VT, gets horrified, Spriest reapplies VT before healer is out of horrify
UA Lock casts UA, healer dispels UA, gets silenced and takes dmg, UA Lock reapplies UA before healer is out of silence.

Out of which spec is getting the shaft here?
healer dispels every VT they can, shadowpriest goes oom
healer dispels every set of warlock dots they can, warlock does zero damage
healer dispels every flameshock they can, shaman does less damage on one damage spell
i'm not sure you are getting shafted any more then destro warlocks when immolation gets dispelled tbh

also with how melee cleave are gna like hugging shadowpriests till the end of time next patch, i think quite a few of them would happily trade a cooldown on VT for it being instant cast

and im curious exactly what sort of dispel protection you would like? 60% haste buff would be broken as hell when playing with a warlock for example, since it would have almost 100% uptime unless the healer refused to dispel fear

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 17 May 2013 - 04:30 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#54 Nerfmytotems

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:05 AM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 17 May 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:


i'm not sure you are getting shafted any more then destro warlocks when immolation gets dispelled tbh


Immolate isn't linked to locks damage like it used to be in wotlk

Priests have other ways to regen mana too,

You have to remember that the haste buff was never as strong as VT or UA either

Lava burst hits like a girl without Flame Shock, and we can't use our other shocks like earth shock (fulmination) or frost shock if we have to keep reapplying flame shock.

Not to mention ascendence if its dispelled

#55 Doomnatrah

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:58 AM

View PostNerfmytotems, on 18 May 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

Immolate isn't linked to locks damage like it used to be in wotlk

Priests have other ways to regen mana too,

You have to remember that the haste buff was never as strong as VT or UA either

Lava burst hits like a girl without Flame Shock, and we can't use our other shocks like earth shock (fulmination) or frost shock if we have to keep reapplying flame shock.

Not to mention ascendence if its dispelled

exactly...lets also not forget that mages, locks, and spriest also have the ability to cc or blanket silence the healer to prevent them from dispelling when they are setting up burst.

People can argue all day that we can muilti flame shock, or save shock cds for the dispel but in reality thats just clunky mechanics compared to the other casters who can easily pull off their burst by using their better cc and healer lock down abilities....blanket CS, deeep, 3 orb silence, Demon Soul instant dots into Coil, spell lock.

In the case of elemental we have 45 sec cd hex, cap stun to counter a dispel, or save our shock cds which gimps other aspects of our damage with earthshock/fulm or utility with frost shock slow.

We arent asking for additional CC, we arent asking for more damage, we are asking for a dispel protection that in some situations might prevent the healer from dispelling our flame shock without a second thought and negating the majority of our burst

Edited by Doomnatrah, 18 May 2013 - 03:59 AM.





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