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#21

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:00 AM

View PostAyrasaurus, on 14 May 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

You must mean 12 warrior s13 mage,hunter and rogue damage then (:


you dont remember s8 lava bursts? LSDruidresto chaos and lava flying the enemy be dying

#22 Nerfmytotems

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:43 AM

View PostZerlog, on 15 May 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

you dont remember s8 lava bursts? LSDruidresto chaos and lava flying the enemy be dying


Doubt that will be happening too much, don't think you need to be worrying about it... s8 isnt coming back for shamans anytime soon (not this patch anyway)

Your biggest concern would be ele shams that have re-rolled to frost mages.

Pretty sure he is saying that you don't need to be worried about elemental shamans.... we are currently on the bottom of the scrap pile at the moment, the same level as arcane, fury, combat etc...

Edited by Nerfmytotems, 15 May 2013 - 06:44 AM.


#23 Deadscumlord

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:44 AM

View PostNerfmytotems, on 15 May 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Doubt that will be happening too much to worry about it... s8 isnt coming back for shamans anytime soon (not this patch anyway)

Pretty sure he is saying that you don't need to be worried about elemental shamans.... we are currently on the bottom of the scrap pile at the moment, the same level as arcane, fury, combat etc...

i dare blizzard to bring arcane back.. Lord Abni will rise again, with me at his heels, as his loyal Arcane follower

#24 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:53 AM

View PostNerfmytotems, on 15 May 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

we are currently on the bottom of the scrap pile at the moment, the same level as arcane, fury, combat etc...
With the buffs from last patch and the ones incoming this patch, I wouldn't quite say that's true

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#25 Baht

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:47 PM

View PostNerfmytotems, on 15 May 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Doubt that will be happening too much, don't think you need to be worrying about it... s8 isnt coming back for shamans anytime soon (not this patch anyway)

Your biggest concern would be ele shams that have re-rolled to frost mages.

Pretty sure he is saying that you don't need to be worried about elemental shamans.... we are currently on the bottom of the scrap pile at the moment, the same level as arcane, fury, combat etc...

View PostDizzeeyo, on 15 May 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

With the buffs from last patch and the ones incoming this patch, I wouldn't quite say that's true
i agree with dizzeeyo unfortunately :S
i thought ele was pretty good balanced this patch. it was only broken shit that ruined it. and with the pvp power nerf and new lightning shield glyph i doubt thats gonna be a big problem in 5.3. think ele will be pretty good in 5.3

#26 Blackonblack

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:37 PM

So we're basically like mages now where we just dot everything up and rely on instants, Yey -.-

#27 Baht

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:51 PM

View PostBlackonblack, on 15 May 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

So we're basically like mages now where we just dot everything up and rely on instants, Yey -.-
this wont change a thing in relation to playstyle dude. lava burst gets buffed and so does lightning bolt. its only if lava burst ends up hitting harder than ele blast it would change stuff. which to be fair i dont know if it does cause i cant download ptr atm. but otherwise everything stays the same you'll just do more dmg

Edited by Baht, 15 May 2013 - 03:52 PM.


#28 Doomnatrah

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:51 AM

so i did some half ass testing on the ptr with the new change.  Damage outside of Ascendance is alot better now, but during ascendance its very underwhelming without Elemental Mastery.  If you normally play Ancestral Swiftness or even Echo, Ascendance without EM just seems like the damage is very bad and easily peeled.

On a good note, Lava Burst seems to be hitting much harder.  If you're use to keeping up 2 or 3 flame shocks, the procs make our burst fairly good.  It isnt critting as hard as Elemental Blast though so i dont see UF replacing EB any time soon.  Ive tried playing UF but the damage outside of ascendance + EM isnt that good.   Bursting with EB, LvB, 7 stack Fulm is still far superior in most cases.  UF is good in certain situations like maybe Thug Cleave or some other heavy lockdown comp.

Our glyphs still seem to be somewhat of a problem.  Its nice to have 10% damage reduction but we still have to glyph ghostwolf for mobility and capacitor if you want to land a stun.  I think they need to make ghostwolf baseline and it would probably solve some issues that ele and enhance still have.  Sham Rage, Lightning Shield, Capacitor should be the general glyph setup without sacrificing all of our mobility or the ability to land a stun.  Gives the option to swap out Sham Rage glyph or Cap Glyph vs certain comps for other more interesting glyphs like Hex, Tstorm, Healing Stream, Fire Ele Totem, Totemic Vigor etc...

All in all Ele seems like its going to be much better next patch so there is that.

#29 Nerfmytotems

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:46 AM

View PostDoomnatrah, on 16 May 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

so i did some half ass testing on the ptr with the new change.  Damage outside of Ascendance is alot better now, but during ascendance its very underwhelming without Elemental Mastery.  If you normally play Ancestral Swiftness or even Echo, Ascendance without EM just seems like the damage is very bad and easily peeled.

On a good note, Lava Burst seems to be hitting much harder.  If you're use to keeping up 2 or 3 flame shocks, the procs make our burst fairly good.  It isnt critting as hard as Elemental Blast though so i dont see UF replacing EB any time soon.  Ive tried playing UF but the damage outside of ascendance + EM isnt that good.   Bursting with EB, LvB, 7 stack Fulm is still far superior in most cases.  UF is good in certain situations like maybe Thug Cleave or some other heavy lockdown comp.

Our glyphs still seem to be somewhat of a problem.  Its nice to have 10% damage reduction but we still have to glyph ghostwolf for mobility and capacitor if you want to land a stun.  I think they need to make ghostwolf baseline and it would probably solve some issues that ele and enhance still have.  Sham Rage, Lightning Shield, Capacitor should be the general glyph setup without sacrificing all of our mobility or the ability to land a stun.  Gives the option to swap out Sham Rage glyph or Cap Glyph vs certain comps for other more interesting glyphs like Hex, Tstorm, Healing Stream, Fire Ele Totem, Totemic Vigor etc...

All in all Ele seems like its going to be much better next patch so there is that.

I agree that ghost wolf glyph should be made baseline, that would make quality of life significantly better cause we just cant get away from melee, our kiting ability has gone down while everyone elses gap closers have increased

Too many mandatory glyphs at the moment.

I have been asking holinka for a capacitor totem change, which he has acknowledged that lots of people think it needs work, but don't think we are going to get any change to capacitor for 5.3 (but i still have a slither of hope)

Some Changes that would help ele to be more viable (but not OP)
  • Capacitor totem re-worked
  • Ghost Wolf glyph made baseline
  • Some dispel protection for flame shock (other than playing with an Aff lock) - doesnt need to be overkill


#30 Hyuru

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:00 AM

View PostNerfmytotems, on 16 May 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

  • Some dispel protection for flame shock (other than playing with an Aff lock) - doesnt need to be overkill
Have they removed the "haste" buff you get when flame shock is dispelled?

#31 Nerfmytotems

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:04 AM

View PostHyuru, on 16 May 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Have they removed the "haste" buff you get when flame shock is dispelled?

yep, lost that a long time ago

#32 Hyuru

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:07 AM

View PostNerfmytotems, on 16 May 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

yep, lost that a long time ago
Should bring that back then (Y)

#33 Baht

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:50 AM

View PostNerfmytotems, on 16 May 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Some dispel protection for flame shock (other than playing with an Aff lock) - doesnt need to be overkill
i feel like im the only one that doesnt think ele needs a dispell protection? :S i mean sure it would be lovely. but i dont think i find myself bothered by ppl dispelling flame shock more than maybe 1 game out of 50. cause if you just spread it healers wont dispell it unless they fancy their team sitting full cc afterwards from my partner. and when i burst i just hold my earth shock untill the end so i have the shock cd open for flame shock should they dispell on the burst. and dont use shocks 4-5sec before i ascendance and untill its over so i can apply it instantly if they dispell on ascendance.

So tbh i dont really see a need for it. Would be a poorly aimed buff considering the severity of other issues that needs adressing

Edited by Baht, 16 May 2013 - 09:52 AM.


#34 Mattadoro

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:26 PM

Thoughts on gemming full haste and int haste next patch?

side note.. i went to Chardev to see what gemming haste vs int would do..

uploaded my toon and thought chardev was bugged..

turns out i've been using enhance JC gem and enhance bracers this whole time...

http://us.battle.net...riftshop/simple

the feeeeeels

Edited by Mattadoro, 16 May 2013 - 09:05 PM.

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#35 Nerfmytotems

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:12 PM

View PostBaht, on 16 May 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

i feel like im the only one that doesnt think ele needs a dispell protection? :S i mean sure it would be lovely. but i dont think i find myself bothered by ppl dispelling flame shock more than maybe 1 game out of 50. cause if you just spread it healers wont dispell it unless they fancy their team sitting full cc afterwards from my partner. and when i burst i just hold my earth shock untill the end so i have the shock cd open for flame shock should they dispell on the burst. and dont use shocks 4-5sec before i ascendance and untill its over so i can apply it instantly if they dispell on ascendance.

So tbh i dont really see a need for it. Would be a poorly aimed buff considering the severity of other issues that needs adressing

But the problem is there is no 2nd thoughts about dispelling a flame shock at the moment...

Reason why some healers don't dispel it because similar thoughts to Hyuru's comments, they don't know the haste has been removed.

The other healers know that it gimps our dps so are more than happy to dispel off cd, since most have a 2nd form if dispel one way or another if they really need it (md, freedom, tremor or team mates decurse etc)

It also means we can't run unleashed elements because that is dispelable too... Dispel flame shock there goes unleashed debuff... With no penalty at all, except to the casting shaman

Frozen power is really nice, but when I run it  the frost shock snare is dispelled so there goes flame shock and the shock Cd too then people just pilar hump elemental so hard until their CDs are up and we have literally 0 pressure,  I'm sure if u have played 2k+ this season you would have noticed vs some comps...

Now with the longer cast time to lava burst dispelling flame shock will be easier to prevent the burst, as well as it will be more of a priority to stop our instant cast procs which we will heavily rely on now...

Edited by Nerfmytotems, 16 May 2013 - 10:16 PM.


#36 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:27 PM

View PostNerfmytotems, on 16 May 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

But the problem is there is no 2nd thoughts about dispelling a flame shock at the moment...
other then dispel having an 8 second cd and most teams actually having cc that they use to punish a healer who devotes himself to only keeping flame shock off his team mates?

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#37 Nerfmytotems

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:35 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 16 May 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

other then dispel having an 8 second cd and most teams actually having cc that they use to punish a healer who devotes himself to only keeping flame shock off his team mates?

As a mage sure....

But if you are playing say....

warrior+ele, or
Rogue+ele
dk+ele
boomkin+ele
feral+ele
monk+ele
hunter+ele (unless hunter is trapping dps)
even ret+ele to a lesser extent


There is nothing you need to worry about dispelling playing these comps

You also have remeber that hex has a 45sec CD (as ele no room for glyph usually) so you cant spam it like polly.

Also some healers cant dispel Hex because it is a curse, but ALL mages, shamans, druids can dispel it

We dont have a reliable stun.... especially unlike deep freeze... (If you want to get a capacitor stun off it usually requires 2 talents, 1-2 glyphs and 3 GCD and no damage output while setting it up)

Edited by Nerfmytotems, 16 May 2013 - 11:35 PM.


#38 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:49 PM

View PostNerfmytotems, on 16 May 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

As a mage sure....

But if you are playing say....

warrior+ele, or
Rogue+ele
dk+ele
boomkin+ele
feral+ele
monk+ele
hunter+ele (unless hunter is trapping dps)
even ret+ele to a lesser extent


There is nothing you need to worry about dispelling playing these comps

You also have remeber that hex has a 45sec CD (as ele no room for glyph usually) so you cant spam it like polly.

Also some healers cant dispel Hex because it is a curse, but ALL mages, shamans, druids can dispel it

We dont have a reliable stun.... especially unlike deep freeze... (If you want to get a capacitor stun off it usually requires 2 talents, 1-2 glyphs and 3 GCD and no damage output while setting it up)
i presumed you were thinking of comps with an ele that actually succeed at the moment, not every single comp possible regardless of whether or not it can beat a 1500 thugcleave or shatterplay

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#39 Nerfmytotems

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:05 AM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 16 May 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

i presumed you were thinking of comps with an ele that actually succeed at the moment, not every single comp possible regardless of whether or not it can beat a 1500 thugcleave or shatterplay

So you are saying that Elemental shamans should only play with mage or a lock and be balanced entirely around that.... and we aren't able to play as any other comp?

I sense that your logic is flawed... imagine if you could only play rmp and no other comp would work because you were gimped and needed to be carried by a rogue... sure life would be ok for a while, but you would be complaining for sure when you start playing against comps that counter rmp hard...

i've played with a hunter and a warrior for lolz and got past 2k this season so its ok but not amazing... assuming a rogue would be even better.. let alone a mage/lock/spriest.

Realisitcally.... would it be that OP to have some dispel protection or a reliable stun or even some mobility for ele? since we are so OP and well represented at the moment especailly compared to mages

Edited by Nerfmytotems, 17 May 2013 - 12:06 AM.


#40 Doomnatrah

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:55 AM

The reason Ele needs dispel protection is because our ability to burst is directly tied to flame shock which has a cooldown.  In fact because of the new dispel system, and cooldown on flame shock, Ele Shamans are more warranted for a form of dispel protection than the traditional UA Lock or Spriest simply because VT and UA have no CD.


Sure you can argue that because there is an 8 sec cd on dispel that dispelling flame shock would allow free cc on the opposing team but like Nerfmytotems said thats assuming you are playing Ele Mage or Ele Lock which then confines us to playing 1 or 2 comps.

Either shocks need to be seperated in cooldown or flame shock needs to have dispel protection so as to open the viability and less clunky gameplay with other comps for Ele.  Personally I would like to see the Shaman shock system updated to todays gameplay.  However if for some reason seperating shock cooldowns would pose some inbalance in pve, I would say then that Flame Shock needs a dispel protection.

Also adding a dispel protection for Flame Shock would generate a new aspect to Elemental CC.  Since we are trying to keep up multiple Flame Shocks in most cases, it would give us the utility of Hexxing a target with Flame Shock and making Resto Shamans and especially Resto Druids have to make a fast decision of do I want to get my teamate out of CC but increase the Ele Shamans Damage.

Edited by Doomnatrah, 17 May 2013 - 01:58 AM.





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