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Incanter's Ward nerf


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#61 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:02 AM

View PostXxlegolasxxz, on 14 May 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

Who cares about mana regen? All I do is run around and wank off until Deep/Orb are off cooldown. If I cast spells i'm just gonna be potentially proccing trinkets that I could have used to just one shot someone.
was regarding spellsteal spam :(

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 14 May 2013 - 12:04 AM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#62 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:06 AM

View PostXxlegolasxxz, on 14 May 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

les b honest d0e' 15% nerf ain't got shit on this especially when resil levels are most likely going to drop all around

http://www.twitch.tv...ceztv/c/2252618
proc trinket + pve proc trinket + incanters + engineering gloves + jade spirit + orc racial must be fun

inbefore someone complains about mages being able to do that every 30 seconds :(

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 14 May 2013 - 12:10 AM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#63

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:36 AM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 14 May 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

proc trinket + pve proc trinket + incanters + engineering gloves + jade spirit + orc racial must be fun

inbefore someone complains about mages being able to do that every 30 seconds :(


This is the reason ppl tend to think mages are overpowered, any class can do CD stacking and global someone.. just about having PVE GEAR that most of us DONT have

#64

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:38 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 13 May 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Mages are supposed to decrease in effectiveness if they have physical attackers sticking to them, that's why they have so many kiting tools. You're the best ranged peeler in the game already, there has to be some trade off.

However, I forgot to mention that I feel you should also get passive pushback protection on frostbolt. It's pretty outdated to not have it, made a lot more sense in Vanilla/TBC when there were a lot less spells in the game. Hell, I'd be ok with pushback being removed from the game entirely.


SO Blizzard invented Cloak to break mages and grip stun effects aswell?

Didint read more then first lines this is what i understood

#65 Pritchard

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:18 AM

View PostZerlog, on 14 May 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

This is the reason ppl tend to think mages are overpowered, any class can do CD stacking and global someone.. just about having PVE GEAR that most of us DONT have


you need pve gear to global as a mage?  rofl.

#66 Djandawg

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:32 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 13 May 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Mages are supposed to decrease in effectiveness if they have physical attackers sticking to them, that's why they have so many kiting tools. You're the best ranged peeler in the game already, there has to be some trade off.

However, I forgot to mention that I feel you should also get passive pushback protection on frostbolt. It's pretty outdated to not have it, made a lot more sense in Vanilla/TBC when there were a lot less spells in the game. Hell, I'd be ok with pushback being removed from the game entirely.
Not to derail the thread but you know what's the worst thing? This expansion melees got buffed with new gap closers, disorients, extra stun, extra silence, extra interrupt and so on, just so that they can deal with mages. All those anti caster tools have been balanced around the mage mobility and avoidance. They still jump around, %100-0 people with minimum casting while other casters are in pain because the new state of melee ruin their life. They get completely shut down. I guess we need a new expansion to fix all that.

Edited by Djandawg, 14 May 2013 - 02:12 AM.


#67 Nadagast

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:55 AM

It's funny--warlock port used to be a huge life saving CD.  But now the melee is usually back on you immediately.  :(

It still can save your life, but it's funny sometimes when you use it vs cleavers and they're immediately back on you.

#68 Enyalius

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:27 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 14 May 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

Not to derail the thread but you know what's the worst thing? This expansion melees got buffed with new gap closers, disorients, extra stun, extra silence, extra interrupt and so on, just so that they can deal with mages. All those anti caster tools have been balanced around the mage mobility and avoidance. They still jump around, %100-0 people with minimum casting while other casters are in pain because the new state of melee ruin their life. They get completely shut down. I guess we need a new expansion to fix all that.

Casters have been the overlords in this game for quite some time now, and still is (not counting in rogues tho).

Mages still faceroll certain melee classes.

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#69 Selicia

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:17 AM

View PostNadagast, on 14 May 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

It's funny--warlock port used to be a huge life saving CD.  But now the melee is usually back on you immediately.  :(

It still can save your life, but it's funny sometimes when you use it vs cleavers and they're immediately back on you.
Agreed. It's very effective when I ask for a lock to do it against casters, but a warrior or feral just gets right back on the lock in < 2s. Not much fun to heal through melee.

View PostEnyalius, on 14 May 2013 - 03:27 AM, said:

Casters have been the overlords in this game for quite some time now, and still is (not counting in rogues tho).
So I got back late last season and (fortunately) missed the shit storm which was early S12 Warrior. They were still retarded even after the nerfs. Also, it was fun coming back to the game and seeing 3+ KFC's in the top 5 on every BG (slight exaggeration).
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#70 Numbtoes

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:04 AM

View PostVirent, on 13 May 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

Same talent, just instead of dmg make it haste.

Wouldn't that make it ok? Still valuable and not overpowered. Would promote casting. Up to 15% haste increase. 10 seconds duration. 3% passive haste increase.

I really like this suggestion. It would make the talent comparable to the other two, but it would be completely different in a way. Would make the game more  fun.

#71 fant0m8

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:10 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 14 May 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

Not to derail the thread but you know what's the worst thing? This expansion melees got buffed with new gap closers, disorients, extra stun, extra silence, extra interrupt and so on, just so that they can deal with mages. All those anti caster tools have been balanced around the mage mobility and avoidance. They still jump around, %100-0 people with minimum casting while other casters are in pain because the new state of melee ruin their life. They get completely shut down. I guess we need a new expansion to fix all that.

I've always disliked the way they balance frost mages. They've fucked over the other casters many times in the past (since melee have to be able to at least somewhat stick to mages - so the rest of the casters basically get trained).

If they wanted to rework mages they could remove many of their kiting tools and leave them based around instant damage. Then they could reduce the gap closers that melee have. That would have to happen with an expansion, or possibly even WoW 2/Titan. It's a bad situation, which is why my previous post was based around the *current* way that Blizzard balances the game and views the mage class.
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#72 kazuhmeer

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:46 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 14 May 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

I've always disliked the way they balance frost mages. They've fucked over the other casters many times in the past (since melee have to be able to at least somewhat stick to mages - so the rest of the casters basically get trained).

If they wanted to rework mages they could remove many of their kiting tools and leave them based around instant damage. Then they could reduce the gap closers that melee have. That would have to happen with an expansion, or possibly even WoW 2/Titan. It's a bad situation, which is why my previous post was based around the *current* way that Blizzard balances the game and views the mage class.

mages are in a weird spot for balance, this nerf is really just a dumb change.  invocation is the same thing and non dispellable, so be ready for that to happen.

anyway its hard to balance mages because the consensus is "just cast more", but thats not realistic in mop at all.  think about rps right now, garrote, cheapshot, mindnumbing on all this, kick, shiv mind numbing, gouge casts, spriest silencing, shocks, grounding.  thats just 1 team.  warriors have 2 kicks for some reason, hunters have a ton of baby interrupts outside of silencing shot.  theres just to much crazy mobility and interrupts to balance mages in any way besides leaving them instant damage (NT / orb).  

i kind of figured the best place to start is nerf the hell out of frozen orb, or at least the amount it scales with SP.  people tend to overlook the nonstop 40k's and just point out the 90k bomb.

edit: or just fucking redesign frost bomb.  its a stupid burst gimmick 1 shot that has no place.  make it like nt/living bomb but the detonate is something stupid like a 30% snare.

Edited by kazuhmeer, 14 May 2013 - 06:01 AM.


#73 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:53 AM

View Postkazuhmeer, on 14 May 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

edit: or just fucking redesign frost bomb.  its a stupid burst gimmick 1 shot that has no place.  make it like nt/living bomb but the detonate is something stupid like a 30% snare.
bomb hits players for 28k and crits with no procs for 70k. the fact that it can be part of globaling someone if the mage has 5-6 different stacking damage increasing buffs up is the fault of those buffs, not bomb.

please dont make frost bomb an instant cast spammable ability like nether tempest :(

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#74 Lieto

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:14 AM

Quote

bomb hits players for 28k and crits with no procs for 70k. the fact that it can be part of globaling someone if the mage has 5-6 different stacking damage increasing buffs up is the fault of those buffs, not bomb.
I dont get it — are you suggesting to remove engineering, proc and on use trinkets from the game while saying this? Thats kind of a bigger part on the game than this or that mage skill.

I d start with removing crit from shatter and adding some flat +damage modifier like 15%. Or removing FoF.
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#75 Coldizzle

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:16 AM

View PostHyuru, on 13 May 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Every mage have been saying this is the right way to fix mages, even though it's not. But since so many people have been saying it, Blizzard believe this is the correct way to go...

Nerf instant dmg, and buff casted dmg.
if they gonna do it, they will have to change alot in other class too.
its not going to change in this xpac since you cant cast shit

Edited by Coldizzle, 14 May 2013 - 07:19 AM.


#76 Tsx

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:41 AM

View PostVirent, on 13 May 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

Same talent, just instead of dmg make it haste.

Wouldn't that make it ok? Still valuable and not overpowered. Would promote casting. Up to 15% haste increase. 10 seconds duration. 3% passive haste increase.
rly good suggestion , id rly like that change +1

#77 Tsx

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:43 AM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 13 May 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

dont underestimate how shit 50% mana regen is when you are used to playing with 165% passive regen
tbh mana reg wont be a problem if u run with invocation .Ur evo will have no cd ,and its so fast cast, u can just get 1 tick and u got ur mana back .Plus if u play rmp or anything else that relies a lot in the openers u can just use it 3 secs b4 game starts and u can get rly good openers with it.

#78 fant0m8

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:22 AM

View Postkazuhmeer, on 14 May 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

anyway its hard to balance mages because the consensus is "just cast more", but thats not realistic in mop at all.  think about rps right now, garrote, cheapshot, mindnumbing on all this, kick, shiv mind numbing, gouge casts, spriest silencing, shocks, grounding.  thats just 1 team.  warriors have 2 kicks for some reason, hunters have a ton of baby interrupts outside of silencing shot.  theres just to much crazy mobility and interrupts to balance mages in any way besides leaving them instant damage (NT / orb).

Every other caster has to deal with the same interrupts/melee mobility and they have to cast more than mages with less kiting tools.
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#79 Deadscumlord

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:56 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 14 May 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Every other caster has to deal with the same interrupts/melee mobility and they have to cast more than mages with less kiting tools.

Agreed. But most of the other classes can heal. mages avoid damage the other classes have some way of healing through some of it...

not saying this is right but its a fact and its blizzards design.

#80 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:43 AM

View PostLieto, on 14 May 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:


I dont get it — are you suggesting to remove engineering, proc and on use trinkets from the game while saying this? Thats kind of a bigger part on the game than this or that mage skill.

I d start with removing crit from shatter and adding some flat +damage modifier like 15%. Or removing FoF.
Yes you are right, instead of fixing the actual problem of cooldown/proc stacking that lets every class potentially oneshot, they should change how mages have done damage since level 60 instead. How silly of me

View PostYarmyxx, on 14 May 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

tbh mana reg wont be a problem if u run with invocation .Ur evo will have no cd ,and its so fast cast, u can just get 1 tick and u got ur mana back .Plus if u play rmp or anything else that relies a lot in the openers u can just use it 3 secs b4 game starts and u can get rly good openers with it.
Having to spam evo every 15-20 seconds vs thugcleave sounds delightful, and having to complete a 2.5 second cast to get the 15% damage buff vs anything that can train mages also sounds delightful

If anything this change makes it less likely average teams will tunnel vision dispel incanters whenever they see it so im not sure why everyone is talking about jumping ship already

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 14 May 2013 - 09:50 AM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)




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