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Incanter's Ward nerf


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#41 Zedkek

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:18 PM

View PostMirionx, on 13 May 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Mages are either about burst or CC, right now you have both. That's what's wrong about it.
Mages have always had both...

#42 Mirionx

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:21 PM

View PostZedkek, on 13 May 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

Mages have always had both...

No they haven't. Mages right now have burst like a warrior with cds if not more, they've always had some burst but not this much while having all this CC.

#43 fant0m8

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:25 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 13 May 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

and then vs hunters/shamans/melee in general we do zero damage since we get zero procs

wanting all procs to come from frostbolt casts is all very well if at the same time they completely remake the other 90% of the game, but that wont be happening either till the next expansion


Mages are supposed to decrease in effectiveness if they have physical attackers sticking to them, that's why they have so many kiting tools. You're the best ranged peeler in the game already, there has to be some trade off.

However, I forgot to mention that I feel you should also get passive pushback protection on frostbolt. It's pretty outdated to not have it, made a lot more sense in Vanilla/TBC when there were a lot less spells in the game. Hell, I'd be ok with pushback being removed from the game entirely.
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#44 Violatrix

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:20 PM

View Posthairpiece, on 13 May 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Everyone thinks its the right way, but mages are still gonna global people unless the damage nerf in 5.3 is really really hefty.  You can easily global people without having incanters on right now.

Exactly this.  The guys over at Blizz don't seem to understand that mages don't just kill people in a deep, they overkill.  The end effect is going to remain the same except for the cute little overkill amount in parenthesis in our combat logs.
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#45 Violatrix

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:22 PM

View Postvomite, on 13 May 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Also remove dks from pvp, the class shouldnt be viable imo

Shamefully off-topic, yet I still smiled :) +rep, even if you were being sarcastic.
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#46 Persephones

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:59 PM

Mages spamming Nether Tempest on anything in sight, outdpsing any class in the game while bringing a kill window every 24 seconds unless stopped with zero setup requirement

Nothing wrong here, move along

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#47

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:19 PM

View PostMirionx, on 13 May 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:



Is it just me who thinks this is the wrong way to nerf mages?
no, its the right way to nerf mages , 10/10 agree on nerf.

#48 Ogcreamsicle

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:28 PM

If this goes live i think ill just run invocation, last 1 min and cant be dispelled. The evo glyph heal kinda sucks with that talent but ohwell we'll see

#49 Apsco60

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:00 PM

View PostPradafiend, on 13 May 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

hopefully that apsco retard will stop complaining in every thread

Think again retard here. This change is mediocre but mage nerfs are mage nerfs. They nerfed inchanters by 15% but increased the duration by 67%. A slight burst nerf but, in conjunction with the frost bolt + flameglow nerf i can't complain.

#50

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:20 PM

View PostMiluu, on 13 May 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

just remove incanter's and nerf orb dmg? :( guess mage would be fixed then tbh.
ye lets just say completely remove any ability without replacing it ,next time u try be a little smarter .If u want incanter's ward to be removed then figure out a talent to put in its place.

#51 Virent

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:26 PM

View PostYarmyxx, on 13 May 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

ye lets just say completely remove any ability without replacing it ,next time u try be a little smarter .If u want incanter's ward to be removed then figure out a talent to put in its place.

Same talent, just instead of dmg make it haste.

Wouldn't that make it ok? Still valuable and not overpowered. Would promote casting. Up to 15% haste increase. 10 seconds duration. 3% passive haste increase.

Edited by Virent, 13 May 2013 - 10:27 PM.

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#52 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:33 PM

View PostVirent, on 13 May 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

Same talent, just instead of dmg make it haste.

Wouldn't that make it ok? Still valuable and not overpowered. Would promote casting. Up to 15% haste increase. 10 seconds duration. 3% passive haste increase.
would probably have to be 25%+ haste to balance it against the other two talents on the tier for pve


Edited by Dizzeeyo, 13 May 2013 - 10:33 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#53 Virent

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:37 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 13 May 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

would probably have to be 25%+ haste to balance it against the other two talents on the tier for pve


I am pretty sure 25% haste would be extremely overpowered in a PvP scenario. Nobody wants S8 poly casts back again. And the other two talents are pretty good choices for PvE, so I don't think it'd hurt if that one would not be that amazing for PvE. There are lots of talent trees that don't have all 3 talent choices good for PvE/PvP.
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#54 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:47 PM

View PostVirent, on 13 May 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

I am pretty sure 25% haste would be extremely overpowered in a PvP scenario. Nobody wants S8 poly casts back again. And the other two talents are pretty good choices for PvE, so I don't think it'd hurt if that one would not be that amazing for PvE. There are lots of talent trees that don't have all 3 talent choices good for PvE/PvP.
but on the talent line where all 3 talents are designed and balanced to give roughly the same mana regen and damage boost in a pve scenario, then i think keeping them balanced will be their highest priority, as is probably evident by them boosting the duration of incanters buff instead of just nerfing it to 15% with no other change

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 13 May 2013 - 10:48 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#55 Marshmellow

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:52 PM

Blizzard wants incanters to be good in pve, its either 30% sp increase with 15 sec duration or 15% with 25 sec duration (nearly 100% uptime)

They just don't realize that there are obviously better choices for PvE and PvP but Blizzard wants all Talents/specs to be 100% viable in both PvE and PvP

#56 Styfez

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:53 PM

View PostMiluu, on 13 May 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

cuz u play mage :P

I wish people would stop focusing on the icon next to other peoples names.. Smoove plays a WW monk most of the time not a mage, but thanks for your insight.

#57 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:58 PM

View PostMarshmellow, on 13 May 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

Blizzard wants incanters to be good in pve, its either 30% sp increase with 15 sec duration or 15% with 25 sec duration (nearly 100% uptime)

They just don't realize that there are obviously better choices for PvE and PvP but Blizzard wants all Talents/specs to be 100% viable in both PvE and PvP
they realize all 3 lvl 90 mage talents are horrible but they cant redesign the entire line until the next expansion so :(

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#58 Xxlegolasxxz

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:50 PM

Well, this is obviously a big nerf, i'm not sure why people are saying this is a buff in any sense? The only time a mages damage is relevant is in about a .1-4 second window during Deep Freeze if hes Frost Bomb. Any damage inbetween is practically just filler and the value of damage modifiers are significantly reduced inbetween those windows.

Not that it matters, i'll just run Invocation, afaik its not dispellable at all and lasts an entire minute and actually makes spellsteal spam inbetween burst windows viable. Not to mention good teams will  not randomly dot a mage, thats probably the most frustrating thing about Incanters Ward, I can't control when its going to be up if a team is smart.

Doesn't particularly change Mages ability to one shot people either.

#59 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:54 PM

View PostXxlegolasxxz, on 13 May 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

Not that it matters, i'll just run Invocation, afaik its not dispellable at all and lasts an entire minute and actually makes spellsteal spam inbetween burst windows viable. Not to mention good teams will  not randomly dot a mage, thats probably the most frustrating thing about Incanters Ward, I can't control when its going to be up if a team is smart.
dont underestimate how shit 50% mana regen is when you are used to playing with 165% passive regen

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#60 Xxlegolasxxz

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:00 AM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 13 May 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

dont underestimate how shit 50% mana regen is when you are used to playing with 165% passive regen

Who cares about mana regen? All I do is run around and wank off until Deep/Orb are off cooldown. If I cast spells i'm just gonna be potentially proccing trinkets that I could have used to just one shot someone.

les b honest d0e' 15% nerf ain't got shit on this especially when resil levels are most likely going to drop all around

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Edited by Xxlegolasxxz, 14 May 2013 - 12:03 AM.





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