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#1 Eleney

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:45 AM

My question is why Blizzard cant just hotfix the problems in PvP that everyone can se? Its so frustrating to wait 2-3 months for a patch to fix something that could be fixed within minutes..

People wait 4 months for the 5.2 patch to fix the warrior problems and now we have to wait another 2 for mage and rogue fixes and possibly  another 2 more when 5.3 comes for ret paladin and enh shaman fix.

#2 Marshmellow

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:47 AM

View PostEleney, on 08 May 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

and possibly  another 2 more when 5.3 comes for ret paladin and enh shaman fix.

I really hope not
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#3 Salutations

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:53 AM

5.3 will come in june or july with TR and season will end in september/october, pretty sure.
Anyway, don't think 5.3 will fix the game, it's gonna be even worse than now.

Edited by Salutations, 08 May 2013 - 06:36 PM.


#4 Ansi

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:59 AM

Because Blizzard has to take care of their entire playerbase, not just arena junkies.

The difference between entire playerbase and arena junkies is, that entire playerbase gets pissed beyond belief if you just yolo-hotfix everything. They generally don't like changes and they don't like sudden powershifts. It makes them quit, which means less profit.

It's the exact same reason they don't do major overhauls within expansions, but only between.

I don't mean to be condescending, but this has been obvious for a long time.

#5 Eleney

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:06 AM

View PostAnsi, on 08 May 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Because Blizzard has to take care of their entire playerbase, not just arena junkies.

The difference between entire playerbase and arena junkies is, that entire playerbase gets pissed beyond belief if you just yolo-hotfix everything. They generally don't like changes and they don't like sudden powershifts. It makes them quit, which means less profit.

It's the exact same reason they don't do major overhauls within expansions, but only between.

I don't mean to be condescending, but this has been obvious for a long time.

I think people tend to quit when thigs are this unbalanced rather then when they get some damage nerfs. Find me one Mage or Rogue who thinks their burst is fine...

#6 Ansi

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:11 AM

View PostEleney, on 08 May 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

I think people tend to quit when thigs are this unbalanced rather then when they get some damage nerfs. Find me one Mage or Rogue who thinks their burst is fine...

'We' may quit due to imbalances getting fixed too slow. Doesn't change the fact that the majority of players dislike sudden changes.

Blizzard Logic: Angry 'entireplayerbase' > Angry 'arenajunkies' = Fix in patches > hotfixing

But why are we arguing this? Blizzard repeatedly said this. If you read MMO-Champion, you also read tweets from GC stating this several times.

#7 affix

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 05:42 PM

View PostEleney, on 08 May 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

My question is why Blizzard cant just hotfix the problems in PvP that everyone can se?
Have you seen some of the stupid bullshit that people post that are "obvious problems that everyone can see"?

#8 flannelsoff

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 05:56 PM

they managed to hotfix unholy frenzy and necrotic strikes which I agree needed tuning. don't know why they aren't doing this with other classes more often

#9 Persephones

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 06:03 PM

"Obvious changes" aren't as obvious as you'd like to think

Common sense isn't very common either

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#10 Regent

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 06:09 PM

Blizzard makes money on the game being shit for long amounts of time.

Think about it. Everyone sees Warriors are retarded OP in season 12. They try to play their class for a month until they throw in the towel and start leveling a warrior. That takes 2 months ($30). Once all the FOTM warriors are 90, they nerf the shit out of them and then another class will take the spot. The new FOTM warriors will try to play for a while until they decide to level the new FOTM.

Before you know it, you just got a years worth of subscription out of the players who have done nothing but continuously fotm. No one can argue that the majority of the player base FOTMs. There is a reason you see shadow priests everywhere now. I have seen more spriests in the last 3 months than in the last 6 years.

Blizzard has turned WoW into full money-milking mode. Theres just no good arena/bg style alternative.

View PostPersephones, on 08 May 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

"Obvious changes" aren't as obvious as you'd like to think

Common sense isn't very common either

Maybe specifically obvious changes are hard, but general changes are pretty damn common sense. It doesn't take a genius to realize that mages shouldn't kill someone in a stun. Why did it take people who are, "the best in the industry" so long to change it?

The problem with Blizzard is how they never learn. They make the same mistakes every expansion. Its why so many people get fed up the game now than ever before.

Mages killing people in a lucky gib? Doesn't this feel like Wrath again?

Games lasting 25 minutes because of peeling/healing comps. Doesnt this feel like BC again?

Dying to a rogue in the opening combo? Doesn't this feel like season 11 again?

Edited by Regent, 08 May 2013 - 06:15 PM.


#11 hekumzx

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 06:17 PM

View PostRegent, on 08 May 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Blizzard makes money on the game being shit for long amounts of time.

Think about it. Everyone sees Warriors are retarded OP in season 12. They try to play their class for a month until they throw in the towel and start leveling a warrior. That takes 2 months ($30). Once all the FOTM warriors are 90, they nerf the shit out of them and then another class will take the spot. The new FOTM warriors will try to play for a while until they decide to level the new FOTM.

Before you know it, you just got a years worth of subscription out of the players who have done nothing but continuously fotm. No one can argue that the majority of the player base FOTMs. There is a reason you see shadow priests everywhere now. I have seen more spriests in the last 3 months than in the last 6 years.

Blizzard has turned WoW into full money-milking mode. Theres just no good arena/bg style alternative.

The more reasonable conclusion is that you are retarded, people have bots and enjoy playing alts.  

Furthermore, when alts become more sought after than their mains they start playing them because it's less frustrating than spamming trade for teams on a low tier class.

A comprehensive look at resto shaman, from the inside out - http://i.imgur.com/icr36xO.png

Posted Image

Official Blizzard Quote:

11/18/10
Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder.. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great..

#12 affix

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:02 PM

Quote

Maybe specifically obvious changes are hard, but general changes are pretty damn common sense. It doesn't take a genius to realize that mages shouldn't kill someone in a stun. Why did it take people who are, "the best in the industry" so long to change it?
Looking at this example in particular - look at the other thread on the front page discussing Mages.  Some people are saying Incanter's is the problem.  Other people say it's our mastery.  Others say shatter.  Others say it's PvE gear.  Or stacking orc racial on top of proc trinket + on use trinket.

The only thing everybody can agree on is that sometimes Mages do too much Damage.  So... what's the "obvious" hotfix here that "everybody" knows should happen?  Please, be specific.  The only thing most people here seem to agree on is that we don't want to see any PvE gear in arenas.  But that's not something they want to explicitly ban, so... here we are.

#13 Renaissance_Man

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:10 PM

View Postaffix, on 08 May 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

Looking at this example in particular - look at the other thread on the front page discussing Mages.  Some people are saying Incanter's is the problem.  Other people say it's our mastery.  Others say shatter.  Others say it's PvE gear.  Or stacking orc racial on top of proc trinket + on use trinket.

The only thing everybody can agree on is that sometimes Mages do too much Damage.  So... what's the "obvious" hotfix here that "everybody" knows should happen?  Please, be specific.  The only thing most people here seem to agree on is that we don't want to see any PvE gear in arenas.  But that's not something they want to explicitly ban, so... here we are.

I am a fan of yours.

#14 Braindance

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:15 PM

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 08 May 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

I am a fan of yours.
For talking like a lawyer? Bunch of fancy words in a sentence without any underlying meaning?

"Something is wrong with mages - someone find a solution". This is his post in one line.

Mages should find a solution not all the other classes.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#15 affix

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:25 PM

View PostBraindance, on 08 May 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

"Something is wrong with mages - someone find a solution". This is his post in one line.

Mages should find a solution not all the other classes.
Jahmilli made a post that I mostly agree with here:

http://www.arenajunk...f/#entry3885204

It basically boils down to 'youre not randomly dying in a deep - you're not noticing that the Mage had incanter's+double trinket+orc racial'.  trinkets are too strong (for EVERY class), and people don't seem to notice or care about incanter's being so strong.

Read the next two pages to see how it was received...

So again, what 'common sense changes' should go in to place?

#16 kazuhmeer

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:04 PM

View Postaffix, on 08 May 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

Jahmilli made a post that I mostly agree with here:

http://www.arenajunk...f/#entry3885204

It basically boils down to 'youre not randomly dying in a deep - you're not noticing that the Mage had incanter's+double trinket+orc racial'.  trinkets are too strong (for EVERY class), and people don't seem to notice or care about incanter's being so strong.

Read the next two pages to see how it was received...

So again, what 'common sense changes' should go in to place?

its easier to say mages are retarded because i got 1 shot this one time in arena instead of being objective about it.  to many dumbasses use their reference as watchmeblink running 61% resil pve trinkets for the entire class in the case of mages.

#17 Numbtoes

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:24 PM

View PostBraindance, on 08 May 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

For talking like a lawyer? Bunch of fancy words in a sentence without any underlying meaning?

"Something is wrong with mages - someone find a solution". This is his post in one line.

Mages should find a solution not all the other classes.
That wasn't what his post was about at all. He was just showing how these "obvious" solutions and problems aren't so obvious, and that there is a lot of back and forth, even within the small aj community, about what should be done.

He wasn't, in this thread at least, trying to find a solution for mage damage.

#18 Conviqx

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:32 PM

View PostSalutations, on 08 May 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

5.3 will come in june or july with TR and season will end in september/october, pretty sure.
Anyway, don't think 5.3 will fix the game, it's gonna be even worse than now.

you know the game is bad when mages like daanzka are considered top mages
http://www.twitch.tv/conviq

Dost Thou Even Hoist?

#19 Braindance

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:11 PM

View Postaffix, on 08 May 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

Jahmilli made a post that I mostly agree with here:

http://www.arenajunk...f/#entry3885204

It basically boils down to 'youre not randomly dying in a deep - you're not noticing that the Mage had incanter's+double trinket+orc racial'.  trinkets are too strong (for EVERY class), and people don't seem to notice or care about incanter's being so strong.

Read the next two pages to see how it was received...

So again, what 'common sense changes' should go in to place?
I don't agree with Jam's post at all - it is well received, not because of its insight, but because of the fanboism towards top players. I have tasted the damage mages do without pve gear and blood fury (sporting 69% res and def stance).

Even if pve gear or double trinkets or w/e u wanna call it are the culprits, what other class can even think of playing with two damage trinkets? I mean, some mage mechanic is actually allowing you to play like this, and with that gear at 2500 rating. What other class has the capacity to do that? Only dks and that is because they have a second pvp trinket - on the other hand you don't have a trinket. It is the fact that you have by far the BEST burst AND dps than any other caster coupled with supreme control over melee AND casters. The new dispel mechanic favored you far more than any other caster. Not only that, but your damage is mostly based on instants which is preposterous.

So wanna "fix" mages?

Remove FoF from pet nova, make DF consume 2 FoF instead of one . Increase FoF proc chance for frostbolt. Lower frostbolt damage to avoid turning it into a chaos bolt and lower its cast time as well. Remove incanters, FoF and brainfreeze from Alter time; it was designed as a defensive cd, not as a reset  for your dmg counter.

Fxd.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#20 Pritchard

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:19 PM

View PostBraindance, on 08 May 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

it was designed as a defensive cd, not as a reset  for your dmg counter.



that is about the only thing wrong with your post.  alter was designed for just how it is used right now, except with only pve in mind.  Its used for not only doubling your procs during burst windows in pve, but also extending your buffs (bloodlust, trinkets, icy veins, etc) another 6 seconds.


Alter however should be changed for pvp purposes, as having 6 instant cast abilities in a row that do insanely high damage is silly.




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