Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Affli, Mage and holy pally changes incoming?

asd

  • Please log in to reply
157 replies to this topic

#81 Numbtoes

Numbtoes
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 480
  • Talents: Feral

Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:17 AM

View PostYarmyxx, on 07 May 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

u only play a mage and u say that frostbolt needs a nerf , get a clue then come here pls.What needs nerf which ive been saying and will always say is incanters ward and propably frozen orb.
Frostbolt hits almost as hard as bomb. Thats why I said ~5% nerd. I solo'd a shaman yesterday with 4 frostbolts and an orb. Obviously it was dumb that his team didn't peel at all but frostbolt still hits really hard. I'd say on average it hits 70-75k and with 3 stacks and some procs up it will hit for 100k+. All of mage damage with the exception of ice lance hits really hard.

I just remembered the pvp power nerf coming next patch, so maybe these nerfs would be too much. They should nerf pvp power before making any big damage nerfs.

#82 Tsx

Tsx
  • Junkies
  • Posts: 1469

Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:32 AM

View PostNumbtoes, on 08 May 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

Frostbolt hits almost as hard as bomb. Thats why I said ~5% nerd. I solo'd a shaman yesterday with 4 frostbolts and an orb. Obviously it was dumb that his team didn't peel at all but frostbolt still hits really hard. I'd say on average it hits 70-75k and with 3 stacks and some procs up it will hit for 100k+. All of mage damage with the exception of ice lance hits really hard.

I just remembered the pvp power nerf coming next patch, so maybe these nerfs would be too much. They should nerf pvp power before making any big damage nerfs.
frostbolt hits so hard right , dem 15k frostbolts r hard to outheal wow.

#83 DamnBlackCap

DamnBlackCap
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Eredar
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 28
  • Talents: Frost

Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:37 AM

View PostChristymarie, on 07 May 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

So true. All the time people are like "dude just go NT" and i'm like "hey bro learn how to setup and frostbomb is amazing". NT is such a dog play style.  

Makes me sad that people love Blue affliction locks.

Affliction? More like a bad owl..

View PostBraindance, on 07 May 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

This is the flaw - you don't have to kill. You have one more dps to help you get the kill, you don't need to do enough damage to kill anyone by yourself. Atm in a deep you can pull the same (if not higher) damage than when I pop reck and avatar and spam slam.

And don't use interrupts as an argument as most people do. If anything, interrupts are weaker than any other expansion with 50% increased cd compared to previous expansions. It is stuns and other instant ccs that are the problem.

It's not only a burst problem. If you check streams for example you can see that mages do more damage overall than anything else, apart from dks - mages always had burst but somewhat poor constant dmg. Now you both have the best burst in the game + exceptional dps.

If you eat more than 2 bombs every 30 seconds its your fault, but aside from Petnova + good timed frostbomb and orb + bomb + DF (+ CS on heal maybe), mages have no consistent dmg at all, even if you let him get a frostbolt off, without cds its still like 30-35k noncrit, and the critchange is around 15%.
We all agree Bomb is scary, even more with inc. ward, but if we lose our ability to "global" peeps in a DF, we end up as affliction locks with worse defense and no dispellprotection. And lets be real, 120k+ Frostbombs were retarded as fuck, but now they normally hit for 80-90k, which is high burst for a passive dmg source, but if a target has a shield up for example, the target most likely will stay alive if at least one dd (mage or his partner) is peeled.
They should revert the new talent-system, giving BM silence, firemages DF, frostmages PoM, arms warriors shockwave etc is just facepalm as fuck. Also Nether Tempest is stupid as fuck, but I cant see me playing without it against rogues. Mindnumbing, Shuriken-Throwback, DT makes it, at the moment, impossible to get enough casts off to kill him, even more retarded with one minute cloak.

Edited by DamnBlackCap, 08 May 2013 - 01:03 AM.


#84 fant0m8

fant0m8
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Eredar
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 4336
  • Talents: Marksmanship

Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:49 AM

View PostDamnBlackCap, on 08 May 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

If you eat more than 2 bombs every 30 seconds its your fault, but aside from Petnova + good timed frostbomb and orb + bomb + DF (+ CS on heal maybe), mages have no consistent dmg at all, even if you let him get a frostbolt off, without cds its still like 30-35k noncrit, and the critchange is around 15%.


Do you not realize what you're saying?? Most classes would kill to "only" burst twice every 30 seconds even if the enemy team doesn't fuck up.
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#85 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3545
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:02 AM

View PostDamnBlackCap, on 08 May 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

Affliction? More like a bad owl..



If you eat more than 2 bombs every 30 seconds its your fault, but aside from Petnova + good timed frostbomb and orb + bomb + DF (+ CS on heal maybe), mages have no consistent dmg at all, even if you let him get a frostbolt off, without cds its still like 30-35k noncrit, and the critchange is around 15%.
We all agree Bomb is scary, even more with inc. ward, but if we lose our ability to "global" peeps in a DF, we end up as affliction locks with worse defense and no dispellprotection. And lets be real, 120k+ Frostbombs were retarded as fuck, but now they normally hit for 80-90k, which is high burst for a passive dmg source, but if a target has a shield up for example, the target most likely will stay alive if at least one dd (mage or his partner) is peeled.
They should revert the new talent-system, giving BM silence, firemages DF, frostmages PoM, arms warriors shockwave etc is just facepalm as fuck. Also Nether Tempest is stupid as fuck, but I cant see me playing without it against rogues. Mindnumbing, Shuriken-Throwback, DT makes it, at the moment, impossible to get enough casts off to kill him, even more retarded with one minute cloak.
Bombs are the best designed mechanic for mages - you know where and when it's coming, you can interrupt it and dispel it, you can pop cds when it's going boom. It's perfect. So the problem is not bomb. The problem is praying to all the gods known to humanity to live in every df with the mage casting nothing outside of bomb (and even without it 2 lances and 1 frostfire are guaranteed to force defensives). 1 cs and 1 df are enough to force a ton of cds and this is wrong. Practically, you let 1 dps (if he is not ccd) to decide a 1v3

Every 30 seconds 1 cs to the healer and 1 df to one dps is enough, and on top of that the mage does enough damage to take you 100%-10% in this deep HIMSELF. I mean let's say you play godcomp, you df one, cs healer, and your TWO partners can cross cc the other guy. Only a handful of dps classes can stop that chain (mainly other mages/sps). If you can't see the problem with 1 dps pulling that every 30 seconds, then I don't know how to convince you otherwise.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#86 DamnBlackCap

DamnBlackCap
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Eredar
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 28
  • Talents: Frost

Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:36 AM

Well...you could increase DF CD, doing nothing to comps like FMP and RMP, cause you use DF a lot of times for CC anyway and can still get of the "trololo u died in a DF"-scenario. Sure, you'd have a higher chance of having a def cd ready, personally, I could accept a change like that.
Someone mentioned mage being reverted to a cc-supporter with little add-up dmg, I would have nothing against that, but good luck convincing blizzard to have a totally useless class in pve, cuz its all about da damagez.

You could reduce the cc mages provide. Lets see. Most of Melees are pretty biased when arguing about mages, because they are sick 'n tired of standing in novas 24/7, like it was in cata, and a little better in previous expansions. Novas were cut to 2 once every 25 seconds, but dispell-cd was implented, so I guess its about the same as it once was or better as in cata. (I miss CoC root a little, but novae are still reliable so.)
As mentioned in my first post, I think PoM Frostmages are retarded, as are DF Firemages. People complained about instant RoF (even nerfed) in cata, so why not get rid of it completely. It should be okay with a 1,5 sec cast, so its still somewhat useable in rBGs, and good enough to peel your heal against double/melee or to root hunter-zoo.
20 Second Counterspell inline could be changed, we could make blanket cs on a 30 second cooldown and reduce it to 24 seconds when used to kick a cast. Same could be used for warlocks.
I think orb really isnt that great, it ticks a little high with cds, personally, I'd prefer the old cata one, doing poor dmg on its own, but proccing FFB, impact (now gone, but thats alright) and FoF like mad :D Maybe putting FFB Proccs back on snare-effects/frostbolt, rather than proccing it from bombs. (NT TO THE GROUND PLEASE)

I understand that Holypalas and warriors are ubar mad to get globaled in a DF, every time I see a warrior, ret or holy in arena, I know chances are really high to win the game. This should be changed. But I can't recall a MMO being in a good balance, there always will be classes which dominate others, everyone saw what happens if you make warriors "balanced" against frostmages, 5.0 times...

#87 Mbgz

Mbgz
  • Junkies
  • Worgenclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 62
  • Talents: Restoration 1/0/2/1/1/2
  • RBG: 2097

Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:52 AM

seems pretty simple to me, mages damage is just to fucking overpowered, needs a big nerf 10/20% overall. and polymorph needs to be on a shared school, so you cant spam poly get kicked>spam unhealable damage.

other than that i would like to see the whole "only doing damage with fingers/shatter" style removed. so you actually can do damage outside shatters, and that shatters aint 100-0 burst with a few instants.

one can hope that 6.0 will rework the mage class.

#88 Pritchard

Pritchard
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 617
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/0/0

Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:59 AM

I think they should take FoF off of pet nova, would promote more casting with FB, and has ZERO effect on PvE bosses now that it doesn't give procs if immune to the root anymore.  Significantly lowers on demand FoF procs for burst, and makes casting more a thing.

#89 DamnBlackCap

DamnBlackCap
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Eredar
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 28
  • Talents: Frost

Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:44 AM

You already get next to no FoF proccs since the procc-change was moved from snares to 15% chance of a 2 second cast, orb and ffb. Lets make it even less, great idea.

#90 Pritchard

Pritchard
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 617
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/0/0

Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:56 AM

that would be the idea, yes, to nerf mages.  In wrath you never got FoF procs from pet nova, and it was never a problem.  They could easily add small extra % increase on snares through pvp set bonus etc.  Mages need less instant damage,  one of the biggest culprits is FoF ice lances.

Edited by hairpiece, 08 May 2013 - 04:58 AM.


#91 DamnBlackCap

DamnBlackCap
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Eredar
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 28
  • Talents: Frost

Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:50 AM

You got it from snares, as well in wotlk, if you think FoF makes mage burst too strong, youre very mistaken.

#92 dionim

dionim
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Arthas
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 506
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/0/1/2/1
  • 2v2: 883

Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:14 PM

PoM should not be a talent and be Arcane only, Deep Should be Frost only, and to replace PoM they should add the Thing that reduced the First Frostbolt/FIreball/Arcane cast by 0,5/0,8 seconds.

Deep Glyph Removed (it would lower the burst by 1 global)
Revert the FB nerf and put it into FBomb in players
Nerf the Orb chance(or remove it) to generate FoF and buff the Fbolt chance

Edited by dionim, 08 May 2013 - 12:14 PM.


#93 Dagin

Dagin
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Lightninghoof
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 1508
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/0/2/1/0
  • RBG: 2049
  • LocationNew Orleans

Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:13 PM

View Postaffix, on 07 May 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

These posts are really silly because you're basically describing what arenas have been about since day 1 of season 1:  Force cooldowns, then kill things before they come up again.

Are you insinuating that Mages shouldn't have deep?  Or that Druids shouldn't have clone?  Or that NS it too strong?  Or that Mages shouldn't have DF+ICS?  that 8 seconds is too short of a time for you to go full to empty (people seem to have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that in every single season of every expansion, people's health bars regularly went 100-0 in 4 seconds or less).

The reality is that against any comp, no matter what it is, you know you're in danger when your healer's trinket is down, and you're expected to play accordingly.  You could totally argue that it's too easy for Mage comps to prevent you from playing defensively in those situations.  But you're not really doing that - you're saying "If I eat a triple CC chain and then I eat another triple CC chain 30 seconds later, I die!  WTF".  Uh, yeah.  That's literally always been the case since level 70 and has nothing to do with any one comp or class.

Another thing that has happened since day 1 of season1 is things are op people get some redic ability of can burst someone down in a stupid way. It then is compained about and the class in questions defends it's class for whatever reason most because they feel justified since their "class" had it rough last patch or season or some fucking worthless excuse. In the end it gets nerf like it should be. Mage is the only class that of the major classes right now that have recieved no over view of. If you think mages are fine you are super fucking biased Hunters needed to be adjusted I agreed with poer shot and comething had to be done about cc I still think bm should not be reset by readiness as well and increase cd to 2 minutes but make the pet immune like before not the hunter to some effect. Anyway now that I have somewhat covered my ass back to mages. Mages play style is all instant no cast dmg atm it sure as hell didn't get like that over night so I don't expect it to be reworked back to how it was if that is the direction they want to take it in overnight. They can start by nerfing incanter's ward and alter time I think would need a reworking as well. But hey I don't play a mage I have one as an alt but have never played it in arena seriously so lets hear from yall what ya think needs to happen......
Signature removed
"Too Big"- Nerd Vexo
Sorry guys too big
Dale
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=m-gVxKrzb4g
Posted Image

#94 Mirionx

Mirionx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1243
  • Talents: Holy 1/2/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2662

Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:37 PM

https://twitter.com/...124110404595713

Dw bois.

#95 Dagin

Dagin
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Lightninghoof
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 1508
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/0/2/1/0
  • RBG: 2049
  • LocationNew Orleans

Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

View PostMirionx, on 08 May 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Holinka@holinka1h
@Jeff60338516 frost bolt change was primarily PvE driven. Looking at flameglow and occasional 400k burst during deep freeze

legit.
Signature removed
"Too Big"- Nerd Vexo
Sorry guys too big
Dale
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=m-gVxKrzb4g
Posted Image

#96 Mirionx

Mirionx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1243
  • Talents: Holy 1/2/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2662

Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:00 PM

View PostDagin, on 08 May 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

Holinka@holinka1h
@Jeff60338516 frost bolt change was primarily PvE driven. Looking at flameglow and occasional 400k burst during deep freeze

legit.

Well it was obvious that bolt change was for PvE already, if you thought else you don't really follow how blizzard thinks :P

#97 Pritchard

Pritchard
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 617
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/0/0

Posted 08 May 2013 - 05:33 PM

View PostDamnBlackCap, on 08 May 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

You got it from snares, as well in wotlk, if you think FoF makes mage burst too strong, youre very mistaken.

that would be why i said they can add things like perhaps proccing off snares as a set bonus.  Im very well aware of how fof worked in wotlk. And yes, fof makes mage burst too strong, seeing as my fof lances hit for 80k+, and all i have to do is through 2-3 of them into someone as a frost bomb explodes to kill them, and if they manage to live i throw the FFB in there.  Either the damage from the lances need reduced, as well as FFB, or the procs need nerfed so you getting them requires more effort than simply throwing a pet nova down, or pressing your orb button.



Also, you only got fof from snares in wotlk when frostbite proc'd., and that was only a 15% chance.  Most of the procs from snares came from frost armor with melee training you.  If that wasn't happening, the procs were pretty rare from snares unless you could land a 3+ target CoC, and that still wasn't a guaranteed proc.  FoF procs are WAY too guaranteed now.  In wotlk frostbolt was on FoF as well so you would use procs from casting as well, now you only lose from deep and lance.

Edited by hairpiece, 08 May 2013 - 05:38 PM.


#98 Nightmonkey

Nightmonkey
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 499
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/0/0
  • RBG: 1999

Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:14 PM

Look at this army of mages in here defending what is quite obviously one of the strongest classes in the game.

This thread is a joke, mages need nerfs and you assholes are asking for shit like undispellable frost bomb?

And Garrote is worse than Deep Freeze?  What game are you playing?  You don't take 400% increased damage from the rogue during a garrote.

The bottom line is that no class/spec should be able to kill anyone 100-0 in one or two short cooldown CC's.  Nobody should be doing 400k damage in a single stun.  Period.  Nobody cares that you can be peeled, because everyone can - that is not unique to mages.  What is unique to mages is their ability to annihilate a target of their choice every 30 seconds.  If they're going to do such retarded damage, it needs to be on a longer cooldown so that defensives are ready for the next one.

Seriously get this "L2P mages are fine" garbage out of here.  Mages have some of the best burst, exceptional defenses, exceptional mobility, exceptional control, and very strong consistent damage.  If you're not constantly peeling them off of whatever they are hitting, it usually dies - then they log on the forums and bitch about getting trained by mongo melee retards.

#99 Shizz

Shizz
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 32
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/0/2
  • RBG: 2178

Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:48 PM

View PostBraindance, on 07 May 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

And good mages stop the peels so easily:

1) Deep the kill target
2) Cs the healer
3) Have someone from your team cc the other person or pom sheep

It's extremely easy to stop 2 people, and slightly harder to stop 3.Only teams that can somewhat easily stop this are godcomps. Other teams just bend over.

lol most biased person ever calling everyone else out, Im sure you were super quiet last season.  " Its so easy to control the entire team"  So you are saying that if a team sets up proper cross CC you shouldnt die? DUMB DUMB DUMB... I would MUCH rather play against god comp than thug cleave, talk about brainless instant cc and unhealable dmg.  If one person succesfullycc's the entire team and kills one of you something is very wrong with your positions/playstyle/mental capacity

#100 Mbgz

Mbgz
  • Junkies
  • Worgenclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 62
  • Talents: Restoration 1/0/2/1/1/2
  • RBG: 2097

Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:52 PM

View PostNightmonkey, on 08 May 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

Look at this army of mages in here defending what is quite obviously one of the strongest classes in the game.

This thread is a joke, mages need nerfs and you assholes are asking for shit like undispellable frost bomb?

And Garrote is worse than Deep Freeze?  What game are you playing?  You don't take 400% increased damage from the rogue during a garrote.

The bottom line is that no class/spec should be able to kill anyone 100-0 in one or two short cooldown CC's.  Nobody should be doing 400k damage in a single stun.  Period.  Nobody cares that you can be peeled, because everyone can - that is not unique to mages.  What is unique to mages is their ability to annihilate a target of their choice every 30 seconds.  If they're going to do such retarded damage, it needs to be on a longer cooldown so that defensives are ready for the next one.

Seriously get this "L2P mages are fine" garbage out of here.  Mages have some of the best burst, exceptional defenses, exceptional mobility, exceptional control, and very strong consistent damage.  If you're not constantly peeling them off of whatever they are hitting, it usually dies - then they log on the forums and bitch about getting trained by mongo melee retards.

this guy is right.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<