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Affli, Mage and holy pally changes incoming?

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#61 Deadscumlord

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:54 PM

View PostBamflol, on 07 May 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

So what do you do in this situation:
Your healer gets deeped, you get ns cloned.
You trinket to stop the mage.
30 seconds later, you get cloned and ur healer is in a deep again and dead from 100-0.

I'm going to shadow meld the Clone and stop the burst again.

#62 Bamflol

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:01 PM

implying the mage wont just wait until you get cloned/sheeped/feared/blanketed/priest silenced? either way, the point is, for you calling people biased because the fact is you can solo almost anything 100-0 if they dont have a passive abilitiy or OHSHIT button that they can use while stunned. Regardless, you're a hypocrite, please stop flaming others and saying we're biased and we're wrong.

#63 Mattadoro

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:04 PM

in this thread mages and hunters defending themselves by bringing up the other class... fyi both classes are over the top and need toning down...

it's like calling kim jung un a quality guy because osama was once out there or vice versa
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#64 diglett23

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:08 PM

View PostChristymarie, on 07 May 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

And for the next one someone else should have to trinket and then peel for those who don't.   I play mage and you know who i'm not afraid of?  Mages becasuse im not stupid and can stop them.

I don't let my healers get globaled by mages.

Can we ban this guy?

#65 Welgard

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:08 PM

View PostZerlog, on 07 May 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

Blanket mage? Stun mage, fear? i can go on forever with this list, even step kick? maybe sac etc etc life grip deep? and everyone whos good knows when the mage ORB + deep you need help within the next 5sec, its like a warrior goign swifty or rogue or any one really..

Some teams don't have as much to work with.  People complain about warriors tunneling healers all day, but that's how they create pressure, by doing raw damage (especially with CDs up) to a single target.  Aoe fear on a min cd iirc, and they have a charge and a shockwave.  That's it.  How are you supposed to stop a mage with CDs up when your shockwave charge and fear are on CD from building up pressure on the other team?  You could try to intervene if you aren't nova'd, good luck.  You're stuck in a situation where you either hang on to every single one of your abilities and use them defensively, or you use them offensively at the most opportune time to gain momentum.  The problem is that momentum means absolutely nothing in the current state of the game. All it takes is one small burst window that you don't have the tools to stop, and something dies.

#66 diglett23

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:20 PM

I have said this before and I will say this again..

Casters such as mages will always reign dominate in the current game meta, people always say melee cleaves are so mindless and wizard cleaves have to cc to win. This is very incorrect, running PHD you play against any half decent godcomp or MLS and you can just see how strong they are against melee. The biggest part being the dispel change in MoP, having a 8 second cooldown on dispell makes classes such as mages have complete control over melee. I have had this happen many times this season, I am running PHD or double melee cleave against a mage and we land a CC on healer and pop our CDS on a dps, lets just say a shadow priest. The mage just polys once, I dispell and polys again. This automatically makes it a  4 second CC that you cannot get out of and the shadow priest gets topped. Now it wasn't that I was cced and couldn't dispell, I am simply just sitting there because dispell is on CD and if this was CATA or WOTLK I could of dispelled my DK again and we would've won. Lets just say DK trinkets that 4 second poly, the mage can immedietly nova him and blanket healer, another CC on a very short cooldown. After any good wizard peels melee's CD's, its all in the wizards hands to set up a kill. AOE fear dps with no out, and deep on healer forces a major CD or a kill pretty much every time.

For those who say rofl S12 KFC look how melee dominated, I agree KFC was a top notch comp, one of the best. How come it was not rank 1 on BG9? Simple answer, a good godcomp, for example Jahmili or a good FPS could always beat a top notch KFC, its just how the game is. You live the burst, by spamming CC that you can only dispel once every 8 seconds, then set up a kill.

TLDR;

The dispell change in MoP made wizards with spammable CC to powerful, espically mages because of the ability to spam poly and nova and blanket on very short DR and CDS.

#67 Apsco60

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:57 PM

Mage damage needs to be looked at period. Good surv, crazy burst, and spam cc.

#68 watchmepwn

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:59 PM

Seriously how many times do I have to say this. By comparing a mage with a hunter. Mage damage can easy be interrupted. A hunter damage can't be interrupted. A mage cc can be interrupted. A hunter's cc besides a scatter+trap comb, is hard to interrupt unless you stun or cc the hunter before he cc's anyone in your team.

Yes mage damage is retarded in the burst (all cooldowns up) it does 80-90% damage of someone's HP pool. But a mage can never, yes this is true, never ever score a kill without this setup. That is how they are designed nowadays. I would love to see blizzard removes frostbomb and nether tempest. Upgrade frostbolts damage so a casting mage is hard to allow for the enemy team. I want to see a mage to be able to do 4 shatter combo's in a row wich drops someone. This means casting + icelance, casting+icelance etc. But then remove the interrupts from the game. Warriors have too much interrupts, every melee and even healers have interrupts now. If a mage has to cast those shatters to do pressure, it will be the end of mages because there are to many interrupts. By the end you faked all interrupts, you are able to do 2 or 3 casts before the interrupts are back from cooldown.

#69 Deadscumlord

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:50 PM

View Postwatchmepwn, on 07 May 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Seriously how many times do I have to say this. By comparing a mage with a hunter. Mage damage can easy be interrupted. A hunter damage can't be interrupted. A mage cc can be interrupted. A hunter's cc besides a scatter+trap comb, is hard to interrupt unless you stun or cc the hunter before he cc's anyone in your team.

Yes mage damage is retarded in the burst (all cooldowns up) it does 80-90% damage of someone's HP pool. But a mage can never, yes this is true, never ever score a kill without this setup. That is how they are designed nowadays. I would love to see blizzard removes frostbomb and nether tempest. Upgrade frostbolts damage so a casting mage is hard to allow for the enemy team. I want to see a mage to be able to do 4 shatter combo's in a row wich drops someone. This means casting + icelance, casting+icelance etc. But then remove the interrupts from the game. Warriors have too much interrupts, every melee and even healers have interrupts now. If a mage has to cast those shatters to do pressure, it will be the end of mages because there are to many interrupts. By the end you faked all interrupts, you are able to do 2 or 3 casts before the interrupts are back from cooldown.

Dude keep saying it. They won't listen, because the cant understand power of  a mere Blanket Silence.

If 1 person on a team isn't in CC, a Mages damage can be stopped.

If all 3 people are CCd with no trinkets or CDs then  they deserve to die.

Diggles plz don't hate me. Your friends say our voices sound a lot alike in skype lol

Edited by Christymarie, 07 May 2013 - 08:55 PM.


#70 Marshmellow

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:55 PM

Mages will never get nerfed if there is PvE content in the game


Edit: and why are actual quality posts being deleted from this thread while this Christymarie character continuously posts his/her braindead nonsense?

Edited by Marshmellow, 07 May 2013 - 09:05 PM.

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#71 Deadscumlord

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:04 PM

View PostMarshmellow, on 07 May 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Mages will never get nerfed if there is PvE content in the game

The problem is the way to nerf mages. it's a hard thing to do with all the interrupts, stuns, etc.

They need to make frostbomb undispelable, (so when we do get it off it sticks), but then nerf out overall damage from procs and mastery.

If every frost bomb that landed actually hit but did less damage would increase our constant damage and lower burst.  

and as for the nether tempest issue. i really don't know it's OP and super boring.

#72 Conviqx

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:04 PM

still think the dispell CD made arena worse

BUT HEY its not like blizzard takes any advice from this site anyway, instead talks to 45 year old pve'rs for pvp changes xdxdxdxdxdxdxd

Edited by Conviqx, 07 May 2013 - 09:05 PM.

http://www.twitch.tv/conviq

Dost Thou Even Hoist?

#73 Welgard

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:05 PM

View Postwatchmepwn, on 07 May 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

But then remove the interrupts from the game. Warriors have too much interrupts, every melee and even healers have interrupts now. If a mage has to cast those shatters to do pressure, it will be the end of mages because there are to many interrupts. By the end you faked all interrupts, you are able to do 2 or 3 casts before the interrupts are back from cooldown.

The issue isn't the interrupts, but the blanket silences, stuns, and incapacitating effects that they have on top of the interrupts.  I'm all for bringing back hardcasting, for both healers and caster dps, especially if it means there won't be any blanket silences but just hard interrupts.

The fact of the matter is that the number of spells interrupted in an arena are actually at an all-time low.  The cooldown on all melee interrupts plus wind shear increased significantly, while actual lockout time upon being interrupted has gone down.  Many casters have two viable spell schools now, where if you're locked out on one you can still do mediocre damage with the other or heal or peel or something else.

The problem is that there are now too many silences and stuns in the game.  Warriors have too many stuns, windwalker monks have practically everything.  You can blame not being able to do damage on interrupts, but they aren't the cause of the problem.  The issue is faking the pummel and getting shockwaved.  You blink that and get charge stunned.  Your next cast gets stopped by an intimidating shout.  Then you might be able to get a cast off, if the warrior doesn't have disrupting shout.  Add another melee into the mix and you won't have a good day.  The system is far too lenient when someone misses an interrupt (and my own class is certainly no exception to that), when the person has a couple stuns, silences, or other ways to stop the cast that aren't an actual interrupt.

#74 Persephones

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:08 PM

Spell cleaves requiring more cordination than melee cleaves is an ancient joke. These days you can easily kill shit by spamming random and near unhealable damage on whatever is out in the open. You don't have to cordinate jack and eventuelly you'll land a kill during a cs or simply oom the healer. Spell cleaves (this includes teams with elems too) are the new melee; spam near unhealable damage from range with 10x the cc and tools to stop damage incoming.

You can watch streams of multiple top ranked players, a lot of them play godcomp like this; just hit whatever is out in the open.

Edited by Persephones, 07 May 2013 - 09:09 PM.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#75 Marshmellow

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:10 PM

View PostConviqx, on 07 May 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

still think the dispell CD made arena worse

BUT HEY its not like blizzard takes any advice from this site anyway, instead talks to 45 year old pve'rs for pvp changes xdxdxdxdxdxdxd

Its because they put a CD on Dispel and didn't remove all of the spammable CC
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#76 Deadscumlord

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:26 PM

View PostMarshmellow, on 07 May 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

Its because they put a CD on Dispel and didn't remove all of the spammable CC

No they added more

#77 affix

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:32 PM

View PostBamflol, on 07 May 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

So what do you do in this situation:
Your healer gets deeped, you get ns cloned.
You trinket to stop the mage.
30 seconds later, you get cloned and ur healer is in a deep again and dead from 100-0.
These posts are really silly because you're basically describing what arenas have been about since day 1 of season 1:  Force cooldowns, then kill things before they come up again.

Are you insinuating that Mages shouldn't have deep?  Or that Druids shouldn't have clone?  Or that NS it too strong?  Or that Mages shouldn't have DF+ICS?  that 8 seconds is too short of a time for you to go full to empty (people seem to have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that in every single season of every expansion, people's health bars regularly went 100-0 in 4 seconds or less).

The reality is that against any comp, no matter what it is, you know you're in danger when your healer's trinket is down, and you're expected to play accordingly.  You could totally argue that it's too easy for Mage comps to prevent you from playing defensively in those situations.  But you're not really doing that - you're saying "If I eat a triple CC chain and then I eat another triple CC chain 30 seconds later, I die!  WTF".  Uh, yeah.  That's literally always been the case since level 70 and has nothing to do with any one comp or class.

#78 Bamflol

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:11 PM

View Postaffix, on 07 May 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

These posts are really silly because you're basically describing what arenas have been about since day 1 of season 1:  Force cooldowns, then kill things before they come up again.

Are you insinuating that Mages shouldn't have deep?  Or that Druids shouldn't have clone?  Or that NS it too strong?  Or that Mages shouldn't have DF+ICS?  that 8 seconds is too short of a time for you to go full to empty (people seem to have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that in every single season of every expansion, people's health bars regularly went 100-0 in 4 seconds or less).

The reality is that against any comp, no matter what it is, you know you're in danger when your healer's trinket is down, and you're expected to play accordingly.  You could totally argue that it's too easy for Mage comps to prevent you from playing defensively in those situations.  But you're not really doing that - you're saying "If I eat a triple CC chain and then I eat another triple CC chain 30 seconds later, I die!  WTF".  Uh, yeah.  That's literally always been the case since level 70 and has nothing to do with any one comp or class.
I was basically just questioning his logic on how he says it's just our teammates fault if we eat a deep and they can't peel for the person who is deeped. I'm not saying mages shouldnt have deep or druids shouldnt have clone, I was just giving a random example of 2 classes that could control 2 people while killing the other. The only thing I really am against is the fact I can get SOLOd by a mage, or die in the deep prewalled.
Naturally say against rmp im ok with me dying to their swaps if I don't time my wall right or prepare for the swap properly because it's TWO people, not one player soloing me because his screen is flashing and going HEY U GOT PROCS. I just don't believe the game should allow one class to be able to solo people every 30 seconds, it practically forces me to play with a shadow priest to get mds/swaps/heals.

#79 Numbtoes

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:36 PM

I only really play a mage so I will try to sound as unbiased as possible.
Frozen orb needs to be nerfed to where it only slows/feeds procs like how it was in data. People don't really complain about it but it doesn't really fit into the mage playstyle and does rediculous damage. In a deep it will do about 125k damage (with cd's up) and feed the mage two FoF procs. Along with a frozen orb nerf, mages should get a ~15% damage nerf to frosbomb and nt (maybe more). Maybe a 5% nerf to frosbolt too. I don't really see a problem with pom alter time, but then again I don't really use if for double polymorphs. I think it is stronger as a pom ring > pom sheep. The whole last tier for mage talents is akward and there isn't a really a good solution to the incanters problem except for a nerf. But that would just shift mages to take invocation imo.

I think mages are most fun when they are played as a support burst role. Good cc, decent damage and good survivability. Mages should be able to spam cc (current dispel system makes this too strong for all spamable cc classes) and land a shatter whilst coordinating with their partner to get a kill. Where the majority of the damage is done by their partner and they add just a little bit of damage.

#80 Tsx

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:48 PM

View PostNumbtoes, on 07 May 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

I only really play a mage so I will try to sound as unbiased as possible.
Frozen orb needs to be nerfed to where it only slows/feeds procs like how it was in data. People don't really complain about it but it doesn't really fit into the mage playstyle and does rediculous damage. In a deep it will do about 125k damage (with cd's up) and feed the mage two FoF procs. Along with a frozen orb nerf, mages should get a ~15% damage nerf to frosbomb and nt (maybe more). Maybe a 5% nerf to frosbolt too. I don't really see a problem with pom alter time, but then again I don't really use if for double polymorphs. I think it is stronger as a pom ring > pom sheep. The whole last tier for mage talents is akward and there isn't a really a good solution to the incanters problem except for a nerf. But that would just shift mages to take invocation imo.

I think mages are most fun when they are played as a support burst role. Good cc, decent damage and good survivability. Mages should be able to spam cc (current dispel system makes this too strong for all spamable cc classes) and land a shatter whilst coordinating with their partner to get a kill. Where the majority of the damage is done by their partner and they add just a little bit of damage.
u only play a mage and u say that frostbolt needs a nerf , get a clue then come here pls.What needs nerf which ive been saying and will always say is incanters ward and propably frozen orb.




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