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Cloak and Dagger no longer works during Shadow Dance


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#41 Kaylol

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:24 AM

View PostDoomnatrah, on 03 May 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

great change.  Even if rogues cant "solo" healers after porting around the map cheap shotting/garroting everything, they can certainly peel an entire team with little effort.

This is a great change for the game.  Hopefully the nerfs continue roll down the line to mages, resto shamans, hunters, DKs

why are you even posting in this thread? you're a shaman, you arent good. get out and leave your useless dribble for your 1900 friends. they are actually butchering this class

#42 Kaylol

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:26 AM

View Postflay117, on 03 May 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

Feels like most people here are just saying "GOOD CHANGE CAUUZ I WILL HAVE MORE RATINGS"

I don't play a rogue but I think this might be a little too much. Maybe they should change it so that you get one charge of CnD when you dance, so you can actually swap properly, but not bounce around the map, which seems what most people are whining about, which doesnt really makes sense. If a rogue decides to spend his offensive cooldown and all his energy to peel, he should be able to peel quite good, like most classes can without using any cds at all.
also, rep this man. someone with a brain

#43 varellz

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:36 AM

View PostWildeHilde, on 03 May 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Cloak and Dagger was too strong but I think at this point it would be better to scrap the talent entirely and increase rogue mobility a bit. Shadowstep was fine before Displacer Beast, Blazing Speed and other high mobility talents/skills were introduced. Now I think the cooldown should be slightly lower (20 instead of 24 seconds).

Maybe redesign Tier4 into either:


- Shadowstep Baseline 40 (maybe 45) seconds and a talent to reduce the CD to 20 seconds
- Hit and Run as talent
- Burst of Speed remains as talent
- Alternatively Shadowstep gets 2 charges similar to the Monk Roll / DK Rune mechanic

At this point I sure rogues are overnerfed with the glyph changes, the PvP Power changes, the nerfs to Shadow Priests and Hunters, the Find Weakness change and now Shadowstep as mobility cooldown and buffs to classes we are currently to good against. Not saying Cloak and Dagger should stay but I think rogues now need some help in the sustained damage and mobility area.

Maybe make the Glyph of Expose Armor passive or give Sub a passive ArPen of 20% and combined 50% with Find Weakness or increase Backstab damage to Cataclysm levels.

good ideas but i would like to see a change for Sanguinary Vein like hemo back on it. its just overkill to make so many finishers with this kind of mobility

#44 Omglockzorx

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:37 AM

View PostIsumi, on 03 May 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

why does everybody here have no clue bout rogues?

when you cheapshot the whole team, u have no energy left and can't solo a healer at all.

people write so much bullshit when they have absolutely no knowledge about the class.

and no, I don't play a rogue and I don't want to defend rogues, they are overpowered but soloing a healer while cc'ing the whole team with cheapshot is bullshit
they usually have another teammate who will do most of the dmg to the healer, if its a mage for example, then he will just solo the healer :)

#45 Environ

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:46 AM

Really think if all this 5 or 6 nerfs (lost count) go live, rogues will suck dick in 5.3.

Rogues need nerfs really bad on the burst department and yea cnd/subterfuge synergy is too good but if they do something like "cnd now doesn't work during dance" just goes to one of those forever alone talents so why put it in the game..

Ppl still whine about rogues burst and it is pretty retarded but they also have the worst survival in arena i don't think i ever died in a season this fast.. plus not gonna comment on rogues damage outside of theyr dance ppl don't go below 80% i feel like i do as much damage single target as a warlock outside of dances/vanish/restealths.

Damage reduction buff when recuperate is up(10%?) or something and buff hemo/backstab, then all this nerfs together for sure, think that would be a way to fix rogues, this is just feeling like the typical blizzard either the class stays retarded or nerfed to the ground change, i personally hate the state of rogues right now its dumb and not fun to play its nice for a laugh once in a while when you solo 1 shot a healer.. but.. seriously ? What i hate the most is that blizzard never balances stuff either stays 5.1 warrior state or 5.2 kind of thing.

Edited by Environ, 03 May 2013 - 01:26 PM.


#46 Theles

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:51 AM

This will make druids really good again.. Also I think you can peel rogues shadowdance too easy if you take Cloak and dagger out.

ShS needs a 30-35yd range also.

#47 mirox

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:04 AM

If they just gave us Hit and run as passive talent, decreased CD on shadowstep and made it break roots, then they can remove both CnD and shuriken toss for all I care...

Edit: Also, please make faerie fire have a CD in PVP rather then being spammable "novanishforyouwhilemywizardsmeltyourface" ability!

Edited by mirox, 03 May 2013 - 11:28 AM.


#48 helpx

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:17 AM

View PostIsumi, on 03 May 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

why does everybody here have no clue bout rogues?

when you cheapshot the whole team, u have no energy left and can't solo a healer at all.

people write so much bullshit when they have absolutely no knowledge about the class.

and no, I don't play a rogue and I don't want to defend rogues, they are overpowered but soloing a healer while cc'ing the whole team with cheapshot is bullshit

Marked for death 160k evis :D

#49 varellz

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:19 AM

View PostAndylulz, on 03 May 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Marked for death 160k evis :D

maybe with berserk buff , pve trinket up, pvp proc trinket and ingigloves.

#50 helpx

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:20 AM

View Postvarellol, on 03 May 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

maybe with berserk buff , pve trinket up, pvp proc trinket and ingigloves.

Human rogue running 2x pve trinkets

#51 Hyuru

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:29 AM

View Postvarellol, on 03 May 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

maybe with berserk buff , pve trinket up, pvp proc trinket and ingigloves.
I crit fully geared resto druid for 156k as nelf yesterday (pve trinket, dancing steel and engi gloves procced). Stop defending rogue burst >_> it's fucking retarded and if you believe otherwise you're an idiot, that simple.

I wish they buffed sustained dmg so I can actually do some preasure on my own, while nerfing burst (i dont know if 5.3 changes are enough). On topic though. I hope they buff shadowstep so it either break roots or they reduce the cooldown on it, else rogue mobility will be horrible with the changes to cloak and dagger and glyphs...
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#52 watchmepwn

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:29 AM

Good, now rogues need to get restealths again.

#53 helpx

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:30 AM

View PostHyuru, on 03 May 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

I crit fully geared resto druid for 156k as nelf yesterday (pve trinket, dancing steel and engi gloves procced). Stop defending rogue burst >_> it's fucking retarded and if you believe otherwise you're an idiot, that simple.

I wish they buffed sustained dmg so I can actually do some preasure on my own, while nerfing burst (i dont know if 5.3 changes are enough). On topic though. I hope they buff shadowstep so it either break roots or they reduce the cooldown on it, else rogue mobility will be horrible with the changes to cloak and dagger and glyphs...

This, allthough i think root breaking on it would be ott. Reducing the cd of it would be nice though

#54 WildeHilde

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:32 AM

PvE trinkets are stupid and I feel rogues get nerfed because of PvE gear to some extent. I really want to see all these number from rogues without PvE gear and Engineering like they will have on the tournament realm.

#55 Hyuru

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:39 AM

View PostWildeHilde, on 03 May 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

PvE trinkets are stupid and I feel rogues get nerfed because of PvE gear to some extent. I really want to see all these number from rogues without PvE gear and Engineering like they will have on the tournament realm.
You're biased, sorry. Rogue burst is fucking retarded, If stars allign you can solo any class in a kidney shot.
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#56 mimmick

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:41 AM

View Postmirox, on 03 May 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

If they just gave us Hit and run as passive talent, decreased CD on shadowstep and made it break roots, then they can remove both CnD and shuriken toss for all I care...

Edit: Also, please make faerie fire have a CD in PVP rather then being spammable "novanishforyouwhilemywizardsmeltyourface" ability!
Or remove faerie fire from game dumb ability that only shits on rogues

#57 Hyuru

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:44 AM

View Postmimmick, on 03 May 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Or remove faerie fire from game dumb ability that only shits on rogues
I was just talking about this the other day, that ability is outdated as fuck, dispell used to not have a cooldown so it was "ok" i guess(?) for this ability to be in this game, but now it's a dumb ability that completely counters rogues...

REMOVE FAERIE FIRE 2013
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#58 Bigpapapump

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:47 AM

So to summarize:
1) Intelligent people realize that  rogue burst is pretty crippled with this change :duckers:, we will be waddling to targets without a root break (vanish if you dont want to have defensive cds), our sustained damage is still in the trash, and no ranged ability like ST in 5.2 to at least build combo points to keep 2 of the 3 finishers we need up.. Although I'll grant you ST did need a nerf.
2) Mongo mouthbreathers rejoice because they dont realize that rogue's "OP 1SHOT BURST" came from having pve trinkets and sb/dance/pve trinket up. They just thought "Oh hey every time he dances he does 500k damage, and spends 120 energy CSing the whole team, 135 garroting the whole team, and another 200 to get all those ambushes in."
Rogues needed nerf but c'mon man. Why would they use their brain and remove pve gear in arena, tone down burst, and adjust sustained?

Edited by Bigpapapump, 03 May 2013 - 11:48 AM.


#59 averuki

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:02 PM

It was pretty annoying. You see a rogue dancing you root him, gain some distance , jk he cloaks/ gets dispelled and is instantly back on you.
Faerie Fire should be changed and its duration is way too long. Esp now that dispels have 8 sec cd. Maybe reduce FF duration to 8 sec?

#60 WildeHilde

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

Fearie Fire should probably be split into two debuffs, one magical stopping stealth for maybe 6-10 seconds and a physical debuff to reduce armor which can stay for 30 seconds.




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