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Cloak and Dagger no longer works during Shadow Dance


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#21 Braindance

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 03:22 AM

Rogues are fine l2p

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#22 Milky

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 03:26 AM

I'm fine with the changes but I'd like to see hemo back on sanguinary vein. With the nerf to find weakness as well it'd be nice to have 1 less finisher to juggle if we're going to do less dmg and have less mobility. Hopefully there are mage nerfs in the works..

#23 mimmick

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:04 AM

5.3 5.1 will be fun looking forward to it.

#24 flannelsoff

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:07 AM

enjoy ur final days scum
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#25 Dragomir

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:16 AM

View PostPedroMiguel, on 03 May 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

YAH SURE, what is rogue normal burst to you? Cheap shot an entire team and 20 garrotes+kidney+20 cheapshots and kill the healer? NICEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

View PostIsumi, on 03 May 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

why does everybody here have no clue bout rogues?

when you cheapshot the whole team, u have no energy left and can't solo a healer at all.

people write so much bullshit when they have absolutely no knowledge about the class.

and no, I don't play a rogue and I don't want to defend rogues, they are overpowered but soloing a healer while cc'ing the whole team with cheapshot is bullshit

View PostDragomir, on 03 May 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

Nah they're spot on, it's a solid strat to blow 120 energy cheap shotting 3 people.  We can easily solo a healer with all that energy we have left (let alone that it's not enough to ambush even a single time).


#26 mimmick

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:17 AM

View Postflannelsoff, on 03 May 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

enjoy ur final days scum
yeah cuz dks are the worst class and arent dumb with 6 trinkets 5 if you were 2 dps trinkets and just do insane damage.

#27 flannelsoff

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:27 AM

View Postmimmick, on 03 May 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

yeah cuz dks are the worst class and arent dumb with 6 trinkets 5 if you were 2 dps trinkets and just do insane damage.
yea im not arguing that heheheheeheah1!!e111
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#28 fant0m8

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:02 AM

Meh. Personally I don't think you need to port all around the map to get kills in this game. Your partners are the ones that should be concerned with the 2nd and 3rd enemies, you're melee.

Rogues still have good mobility and this won't affect restealths, which are easy to get and let you do whatever the fuck you want anyway.
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#29 Kaylol

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:26 AM

Rogues are fine, hunters and priests make the class look like gods. When those 2 are in the dumpsters with everyone else, and power and pve gear is scaled, the class would have been fine. Still annoying, which rogues should be, but fine. This will make rogues a lot worse than 5.1

#30 Dylon187

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:53 AM

You gotta be fucking kidding me.... I agreed with the 20 yard nerf and the 20% off our find weakness.. but just takin that shit straight out of shd? come on now

Edited by Dylon187, 03 May 2013 - 05:54 AM.


#31 Hyuru

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:56 AM

View PostFlabbert, on 03 May 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

It was abit retarded yes. Start dance, cheap shot yourself instantly across the entire map on the 2 dps before you instantly cheapshot yourself towards the healer so the 2 dps are helpless out there for further cc's while your having fun soloing a healer, fun times indeed.
ya, cuz rogues can solo healers starting with no energy rofl.

edit: dont mind if its nerfed, but this basicly makes cnd useless, would rahter see it ONLY usable during dance tbh (with the range buff) that will make what you pick vs different comps a decission, now it looks like ill just use shadowstep all the time.

Edited by Hyuru, 03 May 2013 - 06:00 AM.

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#32 Doomnatrah

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:01 AM

great change.  Even if rogues cant "solo" healers after porting around the map cheap shotting/garroting everything, they can certainly peel an entire team with little effort.

This is a great change for the game.  Hopefully the nerfs continue roll down the line to mages, resto shamans, hunters, DKs

#33 mimmick

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:06 AM

View PostDoomnatrah, on 03 May 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

great change.  Even if rogues cant "solo" healers after porting around the map cheap shotting/garroting everything, they can certainly peel an entire team with little effort.

This is a great change for the game.  Hopefully the nerfs continue roll down the line to mages, resto shamans, hunters, DKs
yeah waddling around the map getting kited is a great change mate

#34 Hyuru

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:08 AM

View PostDoomnatrah, on 03 May 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

great change.  Even if rogues cant "solo" healers after porting around the map cheap shotting/garroting everything, they can certainly peel an entire team with little effort.

This is a great change for the game.  Hopefully the nerfs continue roll down the line to mages, resto shamans, hunters, DKs
you mean like an aoe fear + blanket on healer?
spam sheep, nova + blanket on healer?
paralyze, aoe 4 sec stun thing, ring of peace?
double grips?
hex and frost shock?
aoe fear, aoe root, ramdom fear cast pet, lifegrip, lifeswap, shields and heals (might not be "peeling" but still it's just as good)

list goes on, EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME can peel an entire team with little to no effort...
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#35 Structural

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:19 AM

really hope this change is real so all the dogshit rogues go back 1600 to where they belong. remove mind numbing and shroud while they are at it

#36 flay117

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:34 AM

Feels like most people here are just saying "GOOD CHANGE CAUUZ I WILL HAVE MORE RATINGS"

I don't play a rogue but I think this might be a little too much. Maybe they should change it so that you get one charge of CnD when you dance, so you can actually swap properly, but not bounce around the map, which seems what most people are whining about, which doesnt really makes sense. If a rogue decides to spend his offensive cooldown and all his energy to peel, he should be able to peel quite good, like most classes can without using any cds at all.

#37 augiddin

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:32 AM

View Postflay117, on 03 May 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

Feels like most people here are just saying "GOOD CHANGE CAUUZ I WILL HAVE MORE RATINGS"

I don't play a rogue but I think this might be a little too much. Maybe they should change it so that you get one charge of CnD when you dance, so you can actually swap properly, but not bounce around the map, which seems what most people are whining about, which doesnt really makes sense. If a rogue decides to spend his offensive cooldown and all his energy to peel, he should be able to peel quite good, like most classes can without using any cds at all.
Ok well no melee can actually spam peels without using cds, some casters can I.E. mages/locks/druids but thats about it. I've played rogue for a long time and CnD was one of the reasons I didn't gear my rogue up this season. The problem with it is that its 100% thoughtless, for example if a bad rogue wastes step then he risks getting peeled/ not bieng able to get back quickly to peel so he can't just press it whenever he wants and he had to actually pay attention to positioning. Now a rogue can just mongo 1 target and when he wants 2 burst or peel he just presses dance and spams abilities, you can literally just dance and tab cheap shot and not even know where the hell anyone is but it does't matter cuz the talent plays for you. Sure some people love to QQ and their are some people here that just want to see rogues burn but the talent is poorly designed and was a good target for a nerf. The passive SHOULD be weaker then the active, my only gripe would be to move step back to a 20s cd like it was before it randomly got nerfed in cata.

#38 Numbtoes

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:51 AM

it should have been the opposite where CnD isn't affected by subterfuge. I think that would make CnD and ShS about equal and you would probably be choosing between them with each match, which is the way it should be.

#39 mimmick

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:59 AM

View Postaugiddin, on 03 May 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

Ok well no melee can actually spam peels without using cds, some casters can I.E. mages/locks/druids but thats about it. I've played rogue for a long time and CnD was one of the reasons I didn't gear my rogue up this season. The problem with it is that its 100% thoughtless, for example if a bad rogue wastes step then he risks getting peeled/ not bieng able to get back quickly to peel so he can't just press it whenever he wants and he had to actually pay attention to positioning. Now a rogue can just mongo 1 target and when he wants 2 burst or peel he just presses dance and spams abilities, you can literally just dance and tab cheap shot and not even know where the hell anyone is but it does't matter cuz the talent plays for you. Sure some people love to QQ and their are some people here that just want to see rogues burn but the talent is poorly designed and was a good target for a nerf. The passive SHOULD be weaker then the active, my only gripe would be to move step back to a 20s cd like it was before it randomly got nerfed in cata.
or put SHS same cd as charge?

#40 WildeHilde

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:45 AM

Cloak and Dagger was too strong but I think at this point it would be better to scrap the talent entirely and increase rogue mobility a bit. Shadowstep was fine before Displacer Beast, Blazing Speed and other high mobility talents/skills were introduced. Now I think the cooldown should be slightly lower (20 instead of 24 seconds).

Maybe redesign Tier4 into either:


- Shadowstep Baseline 40 (maybe 45) seconds and a talent to reduce the CD to 20 seconds
- Hit and Run as talent
- Burst of Speed remains as talent
- Alternatively Shadowstep gets 2 charges similar to the Monk Roll / DK Rune mechanic

At this point I sure rogues are overnerfed with the glyph changes, the PvP Power changes, the nerfs to Shadow Priests and Hunters, the Find Weakness change and now Shadowstep as mobility cooldown and buffs to classes we are currently to good against. Not saying Cloak and Dagger should stay but I think rogues now need some help in the sustained damage and mobility area.

Maybe make the Glyph of Expose Armor passive or give Sub a passive ArPen of 20% and combined 50% with Find Weakness or increase Backstab damage to Cataclysm levels.




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