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Mages the Overlords of 5.3

mages hunters all other classes mongo mad nerf buff 5.3

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#161 Syia

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:53 PM

View PostChristymarie, on 03 May 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

i mean for real. A blanket can usually kill all of a mages damage inside of deep. Unless cross CC is provided  stopping a mages burst is very simple.

The one time a mage's burst isn't stopped, is basically a kill against any class in the game. In a five second stun, and can be done every 30 seconds with another dps.

Edited by Syia, 03 May 2013 - 08:55 PM.


#162 Cyanne

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:24 PM

View PostKIA Skill, on 03 May 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

So clueless.

Why would anyone complain about mages with hunters and rogues in their current states? That is like complaining about spilled milk when you're in the middle of a hurricane.

Again i must urge you to read the TITLE, the OP and the up to date patch notes.
Hunter burst get's lowered, hunter cc will get nerfed one way or another.
Rogue cc and bursts get's toned down.
Mages... nothing yet.

So the hurricane just passed and we are left behind with spilled milk all over us.

Actually, sorry, it's not spilled milk it's nether tempest. my bad.

#163 Zedkek

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:38 PM

View PostChristymarie, on 03 May 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

i mean for real. A blanket can usually kill all of a mages damage inside of deep. Unless cross CC is provided  stopping a mages burst is very simple.
It doe not matter that it is easy to spot. Mage damage is still really high and comes up rather quickly.

#164 Deadscumlord

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:05 PM

The prob is tho that blizzard forces us to global people. We have no way to not look OP when as soon as a heal goes off or bubble is put up  our damage is gone.  so we know that in that 6 sec window  u have to get every global off perfect with minimum CC globals to max out our damage.   if i stopped to CC during my burst nothing would ever die.
.

+rep

Edited by Christymarie, 03 May 2013 - 11:45 PM.


#165 Tosan

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:14 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 02 May 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

and the mage does his own damage.

I never understood why this is used as a consistent arguing point about hunters.  Saying "the pet does all your damage for you" is like saying "the power of frost does all of your damage for you", or something less hilariously outrageous, "ice lance and frostfire bolt do all your dmg for you".  It's a video game, doesn't matter what form the damage takes as long as the player is still pushing the buttons, and Kill Command/Blink Strike are indeed keybinds just like Ice Lance, they're not on auto-cast.  Derp.

People make themselves look like the biggest idiots with that argument.

#166 Tosan

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:16 PM

View PostChristymarie, on 03 May 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

The prob is tho that blizzard forces us to global people. We have no way to not look OP when as soon as a heal goes off or bubble is put up  our damage is gone.  so we know that in that 6 sec window  u have to get every global off perfect with minimum CC globals to max out our damage.   if i stopped to CC during my burst nothing would ever die.

This is true, Mages design is similar to rogues.  Not much consistent damage/pressure, randomly dance/bomb and global, or randomly deep/blanket and global.  Without that they have a hard time landing kills.  The whole design is flawed.  Classes like DK's/Warrior's/WW Monks/etc are all good examples of consistent, expected damage/pressure.  Most classes need some form of consistency.

#167 Deadscumlord

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:46 PM

All Hail Overlord Tosan for understanding



+rep.

Edited by Christymarie, 03 May 2013 - 11:46 PM.


#168 Numbtoes

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:00 AM

View PostTosan, on 03 May 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

I never understood why this is used as a consistent arguing point about hunters.  Saying "the pet does all your damage for you" is like saying "the power of frost does all of your damage for you", or something less hilariously outrageous, "ice lance and frostfire bolt do all your dmg for you".  It's a video game, doesn't matter what form the damage takes as long as the player is still pushing the buttons, and Kill Command/Blink Strike are indeed keybinds just like Ice Lance, they're not on auto-cast.  Derp.

People make themselves look like the biggest idiots with that argument.
This is probably just a response to hunters being a ranged class that doesn't need to be in LoS to do damage(Burst damage).

#169 Thaya

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:08 AM

View PostTosan, on 03 May 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:



This is true, Mages design is similar to rogues.  Not much consistent damage/pressure, randomly dance/bomb and global, or randomly deep/blanket and global.  Without that they have a hard time landing kills.  The whole design is flawed.  Classes like DK's/Warrior's/WW Monks/etc are all good examples of consistent, expected damage/pressure.  Most classes need some form of consistency.
I don't think that's flawed design, just a different design. I played warlock and unholy dk, meaningful pressure is what I miss the most in this game so I'm not biased. Playstyles based around pulling off bursts should exist and that's fine.

The problem is how all of it is instant and binary - not just CC, but also heals/saves. These things should be harder to pull off. Then burst can also be reduced and take more gcds/time to perform, making it harder to do as well. And then consistent pressure makes a comeback.
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#170 Deadscumlord

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:22 AM

View PostThaya, on 04 May 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

I don't think that's flawed design, just a different design. I played warlock and unholy dk, meaningful pressure is what I miss the most in this game so I'm not biased. Playstyles based around pulling off bursts should exist and that's fine.

The problem is how all of it is instant and binary - not just CC, but also heals/saves. These things should be harder to pull off. Then burst can also be reduced and take more gcds/time to perform, making it harder to do as well. And then consistent pressure makes a comeback.

100% Right.  Any season in the game you could "get globaled".  but getting globaled back in the day  was called "Coordinated Burst" and it took 2 and 3 people to pull off..

Like an  RMP CCing 2 people and then having all 3 of them dump every offensive CD into a perfect swap. and the player still took almost a full kidney to kill.

Edited by Christymarie, 04 May 2013 - 12:22 AM.


#171 Filthpig

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:26 AM

Know what I hate the most about this game right now? The unpredictable nature of class mechanics and gameplay. I liked it in previous expansions when there was a right way to play in a sense, ie.: using your offensives to force the enemy's defensives in order to earn a chance at killing something. You literally just tunnel things until they have nothing left now.

People just spam random damage and cooldowns at will now and sometimes you literally randomly die. I played a game the other day on my warlock where I was being trained by a beast cleave, after living through all of their cooldowns I still had dark bargain up. My healer got cap stunned or interrupted one time while I was at 70% and without cooldowns they were able to kill me before I could dark bargain even though I was spamming it. In wrath I could literally predict every thing most teams would do a few seconds before they would do it just due to the mechanics of a game (trinkets, bubbles, DMG cooldowns etc, the stuff that any good player would see being telegraphed) nowadays it's completely random when people do shit for the most part.

I think the major problem is STILL cooldown oriented kill windows. I think it's okay to have a couple of specs that are cooldown or burst oriented like destro lock or ele shaman, but when most classes are designed that way, all you're going to get is a stale game where a few comps rule the roost.

They also need to work out a better way to handle cc, I'll admit that when I play my hunter I literally have so much cc at my disposal that I can do it completely randomly against some teams and still kill them without having to try. Most games I just dump every cc into healers and it completely works minus a SS to cover traps etc. I think just have two dr tables would address it fine, or add a resolve-esque mechanic where if you get cc'd longer than 12 seconds or setting ou become immune for 12s.

#172 Tibzdtf

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:39 AM

Oh nice, nobody has complained about this game before, what striking news!
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#173 Gekz

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 02:44 AM

I would love to fight a mage over a hunter any day.

#174 Djandawg

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 02:46 AM

View PostTosan, on 03 May 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:


I never understood why this is used as a consistent arguing point about hunters.  Saying "the pet does all your damage for you" is like saying "the power of frost does all of your damage for you", or something less hilariously outrageous, "ice lance and frostfire bolt do all your dmg for you".  It's a video game, doesn't matter what form the damage takes as long as the player is still pushing the buttons, and Kill Command/Blink Strike are indeed keybinds just like Ice Lance, they're not on auto-cast.  Derp.

People make themselves look like the biggest idiots with that argument.

View PostNumbtoes, on 04 May 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:


This is probably just a response to hunters being a ranged class that doesn't need to be in LoS to do damage(Burst damage).

I thought that was a trivial point, missing it and making the power of frost / icelance - frostbolt analogy was pretty  gross.

Regardless of LoS of hunter, hunter being cc'd or doing something else, you still get hit by the pet, which does substantial damage. Otherwise no one would give a fuck about what ability / damage school  / method you use to do damage. Other ranged classes don't have that hunter ability, I mean affli locks would do it , if they weren't doing 85 level damage.

Edited by Djandawg, 04 May 2013 - 02:56 AM.


#175 Djandawg

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 02:47 AM

View PostGekz, on 04 May 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

I would love to fight a mage over a hunter any day.
It's a sentiment shared by all non holy paladin comps lol.

#176 Deadscumlord

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:57 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 04 May 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

It's a sentiment shared by all non holy paladin comps lol.


When i see a holy pally i grab a spoon and NOM NOM NOM

#177 Persephones

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 04:41 AM

View PostChristymarie, on 03 May 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

i mean for real. A blanket can usually kill all of a mages damage inside of deep. Unless cross CC is provided  stopping a mages burst is very simple.

Yeah that's why good mages set it up. If the enemy team is meant to stop your burst, what do you think your team is supposed to do?

This arguement is dumb. Both teams should either set it up or try to prevent it, but that one time where it isn't prevented, shit dies.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#178 Icekingx

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 05:21 AM

Is it me or are these titles getting more and more misleading? When I first opened the thread I thought I would see crazy buffs in 5.3 that should never happen.

Edited by Icekingx, 04 May 2013 - 05:28 AM.

Rawrbertlol, on 14 June 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Best signatures on entire website.
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#179 Pradafiend

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 05:32 AM

View PostGekz, on 04 May 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

I would love to fight a mage over a hunter any day.


#180 Capstone

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 05:45 AM

i'm not going to entertain the idea of nerfing other classes with rogues, hunters, and shadowpriests in their current implementation

literally every caster in the game has a different style, takes a different talent, positions differently against rogues. every class makes different use of their trinket against rogues, every class with a dispellble cc has to commit another cc to the shadowpriest to make their control effective (this is unique - no other class except 5.2 ret paladins can do this)

all the most powerful comps contain at least one of those classes, and most of the strongest contain two. most dps classes work with the classes above. it's 100% proof that those three classes singlehandedly control the current meta

admittedly mages are the first to get looked at when you get the game to a place where those three classes don't control the state of arena, but i'm not going to entertain this thread about how action has to be taken now against mages, especially when your "fix" is changing the scaling of a dispellable buff. apply your fix in game and dispel it if that's all it takes to balance the class





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: mages, hunters, all, other, classes, mongo, mad, nerf, buff, 5.3

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