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It's me or MoP made the game unskill ?


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#61 fant0m8

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:29 PM

View PostROKMODE, on 27 April 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Well, AJ was a hell of a lot more active back then, and the community in general was more vocal and engaging
A lot of those pages are s6 and whatnot as well with the good ol TSG pictures
Even then, wizards could be beaten, but a lot of caster comps had the advantage. The option to win vs better teams was there in wotlk. You could actually beat counter comps too.


You're being ridiculous. You can beat counter comps now too. You act like they have 100% win rate.

Not sure what you played in Wotlk, but there were plenty of times where you felt helpless against certain comps (at least I know that was the case if you weren't a Wizard).


Playing with a Prot Warrior was pretty much the only time that I felt strong against wizard cleaves in Wrath. Every other time was an uphill battle, and any mistake (ex. 1 CC landed on my healer without a trinket up and I'm not already behind a pillar) resulted in an almost guaranteed loss. Particularly against wizard teams that didn't have a mage.

Without the absurdity of Prot Warriors being viable in 3's, the expansion would have been pretty damn awful near the end. And you just have to look at all the LAN tournaments that were played after coL.Black fell off to see a perfect example. Nothing but casters vs. casters.
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#62 Hackattack3

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:16 PM

It's amazing that us (the consumers/customers) don't take ANY blame for the problems caused in pvp due to the things that WE were requesting.

Examples:


1.  people bitched all specs were too linear in tbc, people wanted to feel a uniqueness to their character/playstyle

What happened?  wotlk came out and we saw prot/holy and prot/ret monstrosities.  We saw holy pallies that had repent and could sprint across the map, playing up to +2500 with zero pvp gear.

I think blizz finally got this right with glyphs and controlled talent tiers.

2. people bitched about too much counter-comping.  The felt like the game was predetermined before the gates opened.  Rock/papper/scissors.  You could even say this was the case in Cata w/ 3xdps vs RLS vs xx/hpal.  

What happened?  We have this current sup-comp (thug/god comp) shit show.  People are frustrated and feel there are practically zero options to design a 3s team to counter them.

#63 Hackattack3

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:22 PM

View Postfant0m8, on 27 April 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

You're being ridiculous. You can beat counter comps now too. You act like they have 100% win rate.

Not sure what you played in Wotlk, but there were plenty of times where you felt helpless against certain comps (at least I know that was the case if you weren't a Wizard).


Playing with a Prot Warrior was pretty much the only time that I felt strong against wizard cleaves in Wrath. Every other time was an uphill battle, and any mistake (ex. 1 CC landed on my healer without a trinket up and I'm not already behind a pillar) resulted in an almost guaranteed loss. Particularly against wizard teams that didn't have a mage.

Without the absurdity of Prot Warriors being viable in 3's, the expansion would have been pretty damn awful near the end. And you just have to look at all the LAN tournaments that were played after coL.Black fell off to see a perfect example. Nothing but casters vs. casters.

I don't understand what you are going on about.  I ran destro lock + hunter + rdruid for a good part of wotlk and I have to say it felt like the most fun and balanced comp I've ran in arenas.  RLS/RMP, rogue/dk/priest, and TSG would train me (lock) into the ground, we had to cross cc a dps to keep pressure down and the healer so we could kill something.  Against caster cleaves they would train my hunter and I had to peel for him.  We would absolutely destroy RMPs, dispell cleaves, and 2xhealer crap.

The only thing that remotely countered us was lock/el shammy + rdruid.

Edited by Hackattack3, 27 April 2013 - 07:22 PM.


#64 fant0m8

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:34 PM

View PostHackattack3, on 27 April 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

The only thing that remotely countered us was lock/el shammy + rdruid.


Exactly.

Also, Destro/Hunter was more of an S6/S7 comp iirc. I'm specifically talking about the end of S7 and S8 after ICC was fully released.

Edited by fant0m8, 27 April 2013 - 07:37 PM.

Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#65 Jeffisnumberone

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostHackattack3, on 27 April 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

It's amazing that us (the consumers/customers) don't take ANY blame for the problems caused in pvp due to the things that WE were requesting.

Examples:


1.  people bitched all specs were too linear in tbc, people wanted to feel a uniqueness to their character/playstyle

What happened?  wotlk came out and we saw prot/holy and prot/ret monstrosities.  We saw holy pallies that had repent and could sprint across the map, playing up to +2500 with zero pvp gear.

I think blizz finally got this right with glyphs and controlled talent tiers.

2. people bitched about too much counter-comping.  The felt like the game was predetermined before the gates opened.  Rock/papper/scissors.  You could even say this was the case in Cata w/ 3xdps vs RLS vs xx/hpal.  

What happened?  We have this current sup-comp (thug/god comp) shit show.  People are frustrated and feel there are practically zero options to design a 3s team to counter them.
Nah just play double bm hunter rdruid like Kettu you'll get those gods playing a comp stomped
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#66 Jontex

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:24 PM

yea it's weird. Look at dks, rogues, hunters.. and dont get me started on dps monks, holy fuck they are retard friendly.
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#67 Djandawg

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:14 AM

Actually wotlk and mop are pretty similar in a way that during both expansions, killing through heals has been a thing. This season and last season people could easily die when healers are free casting.
One of the differences is, during wotlk you were something like 7 to 3 dog when you were countercomp'd, now it's 9 to 1. You can't play better and overcome imbalance because of the strength of offensive cooldowns and instant(unavoidable) cc..

#68 Absolutely

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:35 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 28 April 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

Actually wotlk and mop are pretty similar in a way that during both expansions, killing through heals has been a thing. This season and last season people could easily die when healers are free casting.
One of the differences is, during wotlk you were something like 7 to 3 dog when you were countercomp'd, now it's 9 to 1. You can't play better and overcome imbalance because of the strength of offensive cooldowns and instant(unavoidable) cc..

In Wrath


In MoP

Edited by Absolutely, 28 April 2013 - 12:36 PM.

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#69 Disection

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostAbsolutely, on 28 April 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

In Wrath


In MoP


You in Cata

said nerdscream of peace

Edited by Disection, 28 April 2013 - 12:47 PM.


#70 Absolutely

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:47 PM

basically there was never skill in wotlk cata and mop i agree
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#71 Pradafiend

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 06:54 PM

why does this thread even have 4 pages. this is awkward

#72 kannetixx

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:04 PM

idk i kind of feel like i see more comp variations in MoP than i have in other expansions there is definitely a bigger mix of comps now than there was before

like someone mentioned the pace of the game has gotten quicker sometimes a little too quick to where you're mid global and just die because you put a shield up or something i kind of look at the game as half full - i know if i see a thug cleave its going to be one funny game where its just you and your team trying to survive for the first minute then turning the pressure back on them

i think its honestly just about you having fun with the game man stop this whole "they suck they just started playing the game!" people lose all the time and people get lucky all the time it happens.
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#73 Saregar

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 09:51 PM

its not just u. its like that.

#74 fant0m8

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 12:49 AM

People got globaled all the time in Wrath. That was the signature of the expansion.

The only difference now is that every class has cooldowns that can make them do the same level of damage that some people did without cooldowns in Wrath.


And everyone has even more defensive cooldowns to blow through.

And more CC.
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#75 ROKMODE

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:15 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 27 April 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

You're being ridiculous. You can beat counter comps now too. You act like they have 100% win rate.

Not sure what you played in Wotlk, but there were plenty of times where you felt helpless against certain comps (at least I know that was the case if you weren't a Wizard).


Playing with a Prot Warrior was pretty much the only time that I felt strong against wizard cleaves in Wrath. Every other time was an uphill battle, and any mistake (ex. 1 CC landed on my healer without a trinket up and I'm not already behind a pillar) resulted in an almost guaranteed loss. Particularly against wizard teams that didn't have a mage.

Without the absurdity of Prot Warriors being viable in 3's, the expansion would have been pretty damn awful near the end. And you just have to look at all the LAN tournaments that were played after coL.Black fell off to see a perfect example. Nothing but casters vs. casters.
I don't play mop, so sorry if I implied that I did. I was speaking purely from playing cata where a lot of teams suffered heavily from next to impossible matchups, especially with the introduction of triple dps. Kind of weird how you talk about how bad the hypothetical end game of wotlk would have been considering wotlk ran unpatched in s8 for an insanely long time. There was a ton of development and adapting during that period. My bias and inexperience in mop shows, but it seems like from just watching streams, I can tell how much positioning has lost its value. That was my main problem with cata, and it seems only amplified in mop. Positioning used to ALWAYS be a do or die thing throughout wotlk. I'm seeing a lot more teams just sitting in the middle of the map chucking shit. I liked the fast pace style of wotlk. It made the game always engaging and chaotic. The lack of homogenization pre cata was also really nice. You really have to expect these large differences in opinions though with a ridiculous system overhaul like the core changes in pvp from wotlk/early cata to post s9.

Edited by ROKMODE, 29 April 2013 - 05:16 AM.

Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#76 Eycore

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:19 PM

Heres my take on it. Wrath had it's fair share of problems with DK'S in s5, wizard cleaves (which I played), and beast cleaves. Yet, there were so many viable wizard combos, RMP and RLS was solid, shadowcleave, RPS, african turtle, Double healer warriors with shadowmourne etc. People discussed about being globalled in Wrath by a gimicky beast cleave, and I would like to point out in agreement with the above guy to defend this. Positioning meant everything in Wrath, if you got globalled it was your own fault, damage was preventable, and you could juke pretty effectively. Forget about the small amount of cases where cheese does occur (beast cleave in rov - which is no arguement for the experience of the whole of wotlk), generally if you were better than the other team you could outplay them and win.

I havent played MOP (I quit early cataclysm, like alot of people) but surely an expansion flooded with so much CC, interupts and instants makes the following above pretty much impossible to execute. From this perspective, perhaps skill in MOP has decreased, or perhaps due to the nature of the game people prioritise other skills instead which I am not aware of. Regardless, Wrath was a better expansion for arena. You can only take a look at how dead my battlegroup forums are now compared to how active it was back then to understand this.
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#77 Braindance

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:44 PM

View PostEycore, on 30 April 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

Heres my take on it. Wrath had it's fair share of problems with DK'S in s5, wizard cleaves (which I played), and beast cleaves. Yet, there were so many viable wizard combos, RMP and RLS was solid, shadowcleave, RPS, african turtle, Double healer warriors with shadowmourne etc. People discussed about being globalled in Wrath by a gimicky beast cleave, and I would like to point out in agreement with the above guy to defend this. Positioning meant everything in Wrath, if you got globalled it was your own fault, damage was preventable, and you could juke pretty effectively. Forget about the small amount of cases where cheese does occur (beast cleave in rov - which is no arguement for the experience of the whole of wotlk), generally if you were better than the other team you could outplay them and win.

I havent played MOP (I quit early cataclysm, like alot of people) but surely an expansion flooded with so much CC, interupts and instants makes the following above pretty much impossible to execute. From this perspective, perhaps skill in MOP has decreased, or perhaps due to the nature of the game people prioritise other skills instead which I am not aware of. Regardless, Wrath was a better expansion for arena. You can only take a look at how dead my battlegroup forums are now compared to how active it was back then to understand this.
Positioning meant everything forever. Positioning means everything now.

The game was very enjoyable for wizards - for melee it was not unless you had a shadowmourne and 2 healers to play with, a playstyle which was an abomination. If you played anything else you had to los till you had cds up again. This was nothing close to enjoyable or fun.

Interrupts are weaker than ever with increased cds. It is secondary interrupts (stuns, silences etc) that pose a problem.

You can always outplay anyone and anything to win no matter the expansion. So no, wrath wasn't a better expansion for arena. More popular yes, better no.

Finally, although this is your opinion and I respect it, refrain from bold statements like "wrath was better" if you haven't even played MoP.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#78 dionim

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:56 PM

Wotlk roll back right now! best exp ever!
PVP / PVE
Fucking awesome ulduar best dungeon ever made

#79 Pawzz

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:18 PM

View PostFilthpig, on 26 April 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

MoP - Very few viable comps, very few viable specs, some classes not even viable whatsoever, short uneventful games due to arbitrary cc and ridiculous damage.

There are enough comps and almost all specs are viable, just some are god status.

Also the games are retarded atm, either the game is over in 30 seconds, or everybody waits for their cds again, spam 30 ccs onto the healer, dont even care if you overlap them because you have 50 more, then global something.

#80 Hackattack3

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:24 PM

Just canceled account, enjoy MOP boys and girls!




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