Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

It's me or MoP made the game unskill ?


  • Please log in to reply
85 replies to this topic

#21 Hackattack3

Hackattack3
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 985
  • Talents: Destruction 1/2/0/1/0/0
  • 2v2: 1609
  • 3v3: 1792
  • RBG: 2050

Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:26 PM

View Postcrazieh, on 26 April 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

WotLK was the best by far I think for arena, specifically s7/s8. There will never be balance in the game but I would say that s7/s8 was the best we're gonna see regarding fun/skill and with such a huge variety of comps and fast paced play, people even spammed 2s even though you couldn't get a title in those seasons (and took it seriously).


This absolutely, s7/s8 was closest to balance wow has ever seen.  Late Cata would have been there if pve trinkets were removed, rogues were toned down (hero class entire expansion), and mmr abuse issues were fixed.


The problem comes with the speed of the game.  The faster the speed of game (MOP feels fast compared to tbc) the more chances for mistakes.  Couple that with Mongo comps/abilities and most people are only using 75% of their class abilities anyway.  How many of these top tier god comps do the druids bother to sooth?  How often do you even see cross cc now?

You get to a point where the game is moving so fast (mostly b/c absurd CDs) that clean play is not as crucial.

#22 Hackattack3

Hackattack3
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 985
  • Talents: Destruction 1/2/0/1/0/0
  • 2v2: 1609
  • 3v3: 1792
  • RBG: 2050

Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:28 PM

View PostBraindance, on 26 April 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

Please elaborate on that. What is stopping players now from exhibiting the same "skill" levels as in WotLK.

Speed/pace of the game allows for sloppy play.

#23 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3683
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:34 PM

View PostHackattack3, on 26 April 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Speed/pace of the game allows for sloppy play.
And instant gibs for 30% of the games was skill play?

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#24 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3683
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:40 PM

I am sure that if you approach the current expansion more critically in comparison to the previous ones you will see that it's superior. As I said, try really hard to remember how each season during bc/wotlk/cata was and put it next to s12.

Again, I think that you have this "illusion" of more involved play etc about wotlk, because there were tons of tournaments and no there are none. I am 100% sure that if you put the same players that played those tournaments back then, play a tournament right now, it will be far more impressive than any other expansion.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#25 Thaya

Thaya
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 2458
  • LocationRussia

Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:41 PM

View PostBraindance, on 26 April 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:


Please elaborate on that. What is stopping players now from exhibiting the same "skill" levels as in WotLK.
Nothing is. That's not what I was trying to say.

What I was trying to say is that it will have a lesser effect on the outcome. I'll use this example again, but Vileroze got rank 1 in 3v3 in S8 with full S6 gear because he outskilled and destroyed everybody on his way. Now that's completely impossible because gear became a much bigger factor, and as a result of this, all the other factors became smaller factors than before.

It's best if you imagine and try to lay out - in percent - how much all the different gameplay elements contribute to a victory in a certain matchup. I'm not saying skill is gone, or skill ceiling went down, I'm saying that skill has a lesser impact because the impact of gear and comp has only increased, and that, in my opinion, is why WotLK was the most fun expansion, where skill had the highest impact compared to the other expansions.

The same can be said about several other elements of the game, but I don't have good and concrete examples to attach to them. You're free to disagree.
Default UI Scripts - Compilation & how-to

#26 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3683
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:44 PM

View PostThaya, on 26 April 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

Nothing is. That's not what I was trying to say.

View PostBraindance, on 26 April 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

This whole post reeks of oblivion and lament for the lost "good times". MoP has by FAR the greater amount of viable specs and a decent variety of comps. There are always comps that are better than others but I would rather have 5 top comps than 2.

People say thug and thug and thug. Wanna compare thug to atc? Or beastcleave? Or s6 tsg? Or rls? Retarded comps ALWAYS existed.


Take a piece of paper and write down retarded stuff in each season. By doing that you will see that s12 easily makes it to the top 4 most balanced seasons.

The main reason all of you say "OH WOTLK MAN SO NICE" or "BC ALL THE MONEY MAN", is that tons of people played back then and you were getting instant queues at any mmr any time of the day, that kept your thirst to play sated, even tho balance was utter shit.

So, try to short some stuff on your head and you will see how good MoP actually is compared to the "good ol' times". I know, I'm an old timer after all.

View PostBraindance, on 26 April 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

And instant gibs for 30% of the games was skill play?

View PostBraindance, on 26 April 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

I am sure that if you approach the current expansion more critically in comparison to the previous ones you will see that it's superior. As I said, try really hard to remember how each season during bc/wotlk/cata was and put it next to s12.

Again, I think that you have this "illusion" of more involved play etc about wotlk, because there were tons of tournaments and no there are none. I am 100% sure that if you put the same players that played those tournaments back then, play a tournament right now, it will be far more impressive than any other expansion.
What I was trying to say is that it will have a lesser effect on the outcome. I'll use this example again, but Vileroze got rank 1 in 3v3 in S8 with full S6 gear because he outskilled and destroyed everybody on his way. Now that's completely impossible because gear became a much bigger factor, and as a result of this, all the other factors became smaller factors than before.

The same can be said about several other elements of the game, but I don't have good and concrete examples to attach to them. You're free to disagree.

View PostThaya, on 26 April 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

Nothing is. That's not what I was trying to say.

What I was trying to say is that it will have a lesser effect on the outcome. I'll use this example again, but Vileroze got rank 1 in 3v3 in S8 with full S6 gear because he outskilled and destroyed everybody on his way. Now that's completely impossible because gear became a much bigger factor, and as a result of this, all the other factors became smaller factors than before.

The same can be said about several other elements of the game, but I don't have good and concrete examples to attach to them. You're free to disagree.
This wall of text is why I disagree. Besides, many players that haven't played since wotlk came back for mop and that means something.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#27 Tsx

Tsx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Ravencrest
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 1501
  • Talents: Arcane 1/2/0/2/2/2/.
  • 2v2: 2457
  • 3v3: 3078
  • 5v5: 2693
  • RBG: 2347

Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:56 PM

View PostBraindance, on 26 April 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

Please elaborate on that. What is stopping players now from exhibiting the same "skill" levels as in WotLK.
spam instants , all classes have instant proccs, locks have instant dots , shit like that u know .

#28 Thaya

Thaya
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 2458
  • LocationRussia

Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:56 PM

In the end, it's all very subjective because everyone has a different idea of "fun", and we can't measure and compare any of the things we're talking about.
Default UI Scripts - Compilation & how-to

#29 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3683
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:58 PM

View PostYarmyxx, on 26 April 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

spam instants , all classes have instant proccs, locks have instant dots , shit like that u know .
I accept that, but it's not enough to say that wotlk took more skill. In any case this will change some time in the future™

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#30 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3683
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:00 PM

View PostThaya, on 26 April 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

In the end, it's all very subjective because everyone has a different idea of "fun", and we can't measure and compare any of the things we're talking about.
Fun=/=balance. Funwise I had more fun in wotlk yes (although I absolutely despised it as an expansion), not because the game was balanced, but because I was young and I could wake up at 2 pm and q non stop all day till 6 am. That kept me happy.

I can't do that now, and I'm psure most of us can't since we are growing older (and wiser?).

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#31 Salutations

Salutations
  • Mugènleßoss
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Culte de la Rive noire
  • Vengeance / Rache
  • Posts: 298
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/0
  • RBG: 1721

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:02 PM

i think we are at least all agreed on one thing, MoP seasons are the worst since arena started because there is always a big balance issue in the game.

5.1 : warriors, bms, shadowpriest and some classes totally useless.
5.2 : rogues, bms, shadowpriest,mage and still some useless classes.
5.3 : melee teams gonna be far far superior than any caster, will make the game so so annoying.

Edited by Salutations, 26 April 2013 - 11:11 PM.


#32 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3683
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:03 PM

View PostSalutations, on 26 April 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

i think we are at least all agree on one thing, MoP seasons are the worst since arena started
No we don't. For locks yes - for all the rest no.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#33 Mirionx

Mirionx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1243
  • Talents: Holy 1/2/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2662

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:09 PM

View PostSalutations, on 26 April 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

melee teams gonna be far far superior than any caster, will make the game so so annoying.

games so much fun when its all casters right and not at all annoying

#34 Thaya

Thaya
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 2458
  • LocationRussia

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:17 PM

View PostBraindance, on 26 April 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:


Fun=/=balance. Funwise I had more fun in wotlk yes (although I absolutely despised it as an expansion), not because the game was balanced, but because I was young and I could wake up at 2 pm and q non stop all day till 6 am. That kept me happy.

I can't do that now, and I'm psure most of us can't since we are growing older (and wiser?).
That was TBC for me. It's the expansion I had most fun in BY FAR, but TBC balance is absolutely horrible and it was so unpopular that they ended up taking it off AT. I still say that WotLK had the most fun gameplay and arena balance, and this is also partly based on my experience on WotLK AT - it's not just nostalgia, it's actually comparing MoP vs WotLK, right now, today.
Default UI Scripts - Compilation & how-to

#35 Salutations

Salutations
  • Mugènleßoss
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Culte de la Rive noire
  • Vengeance / Rache
  • Posts: 298
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/0
  • RBG: 1721

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:18 PM

Quote

No we don't. For locks yes - for all the rest no.

I don't know what fun you get from pushing a macro or stomp everything because you play the fotm classe ?

Edited by Salutations, 26 April 2013 - 11:21 PM.


#36 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3683
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:20 PM

View PostThaya, on 26 April 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

That was TBC for me. It's the expansion I had most fun in BY FAR, but TBC balance is absolutely horrible and it was so unpopular that they ended up taking it off AT. I still say that WotLK had the most fun gameplay and arena balance, and this is also partly based on my experience on WotLK AT - it's not just nostalgia, it's actually comparing MoP vs WotLK, right now, today.
I also had the same fun in BC for the same reasons I had fun in wotlk. However, even though I loved every aspect of the game, I grew tired of having 20 minute games in 2s. I had a game once vs hunter druid. I literally went afk to have a coffee with my friends for an hour after 50 minutes of play, and when I came back my druid was still 50% mana and I was 50% health. And then I left the arena, because I was sick of going trap root root root clone clone clone trap root root root clone clone clone

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#37 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3683
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:21 PM

View PostSalutations, on 26 April 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

I don't know what fun you get from pushing a macro or stomp everything because you play the fotm classe ?
Fotm= Flavor of the Month. I assure you warriors are not the flavor of the month right now.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#38 Koshimo

Koshimo
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 605
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • 2v2: 1805
  • 3v3: 2099
  • RBG: 1706

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:41 PM

Ever since cata I feel like they've been adding so many random and dumb new mechanics to the game that just all add up to make the game less fun and skillful in some regards.

Some examples would be the dispel revamp, blood fear (may have been changed but was still in the game for an entire season, the addition of more instant unavoidable cc in general, psyfiend, this new cloak and dagger shit for rogues, and the list goes on.

Also in terms of doing damage/healing in general, I'm pretty sure they've dumbed down like every "dps/healing rotation" by removing/merging certain abilities and mechanics.

#39 Ilidio

Ilidio
  • Premium Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • EU-Grim Batol
  • Misery
  • Posts: 92
  • Talents: Restoration 0/2/1/1/0/0
  • RBG: 384
  • LocationLisbon

Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:46 PM

it wasnt mop it was cata.
Posted Image

#40 Djandawg

Djandawg
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Genjuros
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 1038
  • Talents: Shadow

Posted 27 April 2013 - 12:04 AM

This is obviously relative but S12 has been ruined for me because of hunters. I think it's safe to say that I have lost %90 of the games I played vs 2300+ mmr hunter teams. In 3v3, it is an impossibility to deal with traps when the enemy team has a slight clue. Their partner usually has the tools to shut down the guy that is going to disrupt trapping if not, hunters have enough additional tools to prevent that.

I know mages, shadowpriests  and rogues are also retarded, they have tons of stuff that should not even be in the game; we can somewhat manage them, but we can't deal with hunters, their damage is retarded, undispellable disengage root, powershot / explosive trap knocking people down on Z-axis maps on top of their instant cc rapes our entire team, we can't peel them, we can't cc them, it's just not possible to beat hunter teams for us. And that made me stop queuing serious 3s, I had enough of losing 24 points to 2100 mmr hunters.

Edited by Djandawg, 27 April 2013 - 12:17 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<