WildeHilde, on 28 April 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:
There are a ton of potentially overpowered abilities in the game. Rogues took several nerfs, rogue partner classes took several nerfs and rogues are probably hit more than any other class by the PvP Power nerf.
The abilitiy was obviously not over the top in 5.1 when Subterfuge, the exact same talent, wasn't taken by many of the highest rated rogues.
If all special snowflakes are removed the game becomes boring. And if Subterfuge is gone we will have the dance in the opener, probably with Marked for Death and a nearly full energy bar due to Shadow Focus. Rogues will have to rely on extremely strong dances and if they can't force the healer trinket in the opener the game is lost.
Subterfuge and Shuriken Toss make the burst smaller, divide it instead of creating these 7 seconds of doom every minute. Subterfuge opens up new options with restealths and Shuriken Toss gives options to deal damage while being kited. Like this the class has a solid toolkit. I doubt you will enjoy playing against rogues that turtle for 50 seconds, run around pillars and then go out with all cooldowns and procs. This is already a playstyle that is shitty but effective and any changes to these talents will emphazize that playstyle even more.
Let 5.3 play out for a bit and I'm pretty confident that the nerfs were big enough (especially when looking at the hunter and spriest nerfs that came along). If rogues should still be over the top, Subterfuge can be tuned down.
But one more time for everyone: 5.1 rogues were considered to be bad. They had Subterfuge back then.
Now that I've read/thought about all the changes some more, I agree to see how things turn out. I'm fairly certain Rogues will be in a good state. The PvP power adjustment will indeed have a big effect on Rogue game-play and sadly will most likely make specs like Assassination and Combat even more inferior to Subtlety. There are still a lot of changes I would like to see happen, but that is an entirely new topic.
Anyways, I do want to point this out. The reason rogues were weak in 5.1 is because:
You had to choose between Prep or ShS.
CnD didn't exist, thus no synergy with Subterfuge.
CoS was a 2 minute cooldown.
Shuriken Toss was sub-par and Redirect was practically useless compared to Marked for Death.
And last but not least, gear scaling.
I could have been more detailed with my post, but it's getting late and I have to work early in the morning. TLDR Agreed.