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#281 Conviqx

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:56 PM

warlocks are the biggest whiners i have ever seen in my fucking life, i see locks like azeal playing and beating high rated teams in all 3 specs even when hes playing with a mage like daanzka, but yeah i guess he also gets carried right fellas

i am disgusted by the thought that i will have to kill a gateway that will have roughly 450k hp + resil over and over again if i don't want 3 people jumping 100 yards every time i can get a kill and even if the gate dies, u just get a fear/howl or anything to peel for the lock and cast a new gateway in only 3 seconds, which, if u don't want to puke from the retardation of that ability, u have to kill again. gateway should be disabled in arena or atleast be nerfed to a limit of 1 charge which takes 10hours to generate, why give a class that can already spam port to be safe ANOTHER port that works for the whole god damn team

i said it before, you locks are WAAAAAAAY to used to being the most overpowered class in wow that now u are somewhat weaker than other wizards, who btw are broken to begin with, u all went emo.
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#282 brosearch

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:17 PM

View PostConviqx, on 13 May 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

warlocks are the biggest whiners i have ever seen in my fucking life, i see locks like azeal playing and beating high rated teams in all 3 specs even when hes playing with a mage like daanzka, but yeah i guess he also gets carried right fellas

i am disgusted by the thought that i will have to kill a gateway that will have roughly 450k hp + resil over and over again if i don't want 3 people jumping 100 yards every time i can get a kill and even if the gate dies, u just get a fear/howl or anything to peel for the lock and cast a new gateway in only 3 seconds, which, if u don't want to puke from the retardation of that ability, u have to kill again. gateway should be disabled in arena or atleast be nerfed to a limit of 1 charge which takes 10hours to generate, why give a class that can already spam port to be safe ANOTHER port that works for the whole god damn team

i said it before, you locks are WAAAAAAAY to used to being the most overpowered class in wow that now u are somewhat weaker than other wizards, who btw are broken to begin with, u all went emo.

i hate to say this but...

you are one of those people on aj who we all laugh at. You finallyyyyyyyyyyyy get your access and you post everyday all day because now you believe you are qualified to do so.

1. if the rating requirement was 2200 you wouldn't even be able to post.
2. if thug cleave wasnt insanely op you wouldn't break 2k let alone 2200.
3. stick to pve cuz that is basically what thug is.

do us all a favor and reduce your posting frequency by about 98%. you will only look more intelligent.

#283 Milchev

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:26 PM

View PostHektic, on 13 May 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

full of mongoloid scandinavian teenagers playing godcomp or thugcleave

win.

#284 averuki

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:55 PM

Totemic restoration change would be a really nice buff to warlocks.
Also small changes like portal doesnt cost mana anymore.

#285 duskfallx

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:23 PM

View PostConviqx, on 13 May 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

warlocks are the biggest whiners i have ever seen in my fucking life, i see locks like azeal playing and beating high rated teams in all 3 specs even when hes playing with a mage like daanzka, but yeah i guess he also gets carried right fellas
Ofc he gets carried. He never had any real contribution to brackets. I've reached 2652 as both affliction and demo as well, but it doesn't mean locks are good, they're fucking shit, just the fact he wins games doesn't mean they're fine.
You're one of these clueless people who never achieved anything whatsoever, plays best class in the game and yet you whine about things you clearly don't understand. Everytime you post something it's literally filled with complete lack of clue and intelligence. Come back when you get to know this game better. How you even have access to these forums is beyond me.

#286 Persephones

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:57 PM

If Warlocks were so good or "fine" or "balanced" etc I'm pretty sure you'd face one more than once every 20th game, no?

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#287 Braindance

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:02 PM

View Postduskfallx, on 13 May 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Ofc he gets carried. He never had any real contribution to brackets. I've reached 2652 as both affliction and demo as well, but it doesn't mean locks are good, they're fucking shit, just the fact he wins games doesn't mean they're fine.
You're one of these clueless people who never achieved anything whatsoever, plays best class in the game and yet you whine about things you clearly don't understand. Everytime you post something it's literally filled with complete lack of clue and intelligence. Come back when you get to know this game better. How you even have access to these forums is beyond me.
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View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#288 osskar

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:13 PM

Saffie Arab King #1 :D

#289 Nadagast

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:37 PM

Everyone try to remain civil.  :D

I have to say that I think I tend to agree more with the non-chanimals people here than chanimals.  I think that affliction's damage is in a really sad state.  Of course you can do decently if you play with an extremely good healer and an overpowered dps friend (like a mage or shadow priest).  Nobody disagrees with that.  But I think that, chanimals, you underestimate how much your dps buddy carries you in damage on kill attempts.  Of course warlocks have spammable fear and gateway, and those are two really strong abilities.  But our damage is just not at all scary in the slightest.  In a 5-10 second burst window we are probably contributing, at best, half the damage of our partner dps.  If the game was in a state where heals were weaker and people remained wounded for longer, then maybe affliction could be good.  But with the current importance of burst and strength of defensive CDs + heals, I think affliction just does not fit.  There are certainly some comps that affliction can pressure effectively, but there are not enough of them.

About the nerf-OP-classes vs buff-warlocks thing that's been going on: I again have to disagree with chanimals.  I know that shadow priests and mages are overpowered and I don't expect to be buffed to their level.  At the same time, I would not want to play a game of WoW if every dps was balanced as affliction is.  Games would simply never end.


I'm now gonna rant a bit about some thoughts I've been having after some discussions with other players:
As a general point, I think us players need to be careful when asking for nerfs to crazy burst classes.  I don't want to play arenas if every game goes on for 15 minutes, and ideally I want healer/dps 2s to be fun again.  You're going to have to lose games (and in doing so, die) sometime.  If anytime we die, we ask for it to be nerfed, then we're just setting ourselves up for a terrible situation where games always time out (for example, wizard mirrors currently take forever and can time out a lot).  I really dislike zergy comps that spam every CD in the opener, and I don't want that to be viable, but I also don't want to harass the devs so much that every game starts timing out.

I think Wrath was a good balance of 2v2 still being fun (which is important for new players, I think, as well as just being fun sometimes) with dps being able to generate pressure on their own, but being not too crazy in 3s (besides certain comp) and very positioning and skill (rather than cooldown) dependent.  Pressure was also very possible to shut down due to the differences in healers.  Damage was crazy in certain cases in Wrath, but it was crazy in a (usually) counterable way, if you played properly.

It was also possible to sit CC in Wrath for a long time.  Nowadays people complain as soon as they sit a decent CC chain, but half the healers didn't even have dispel in Wrath.  I wonder if Cataclysm spoiled everyone dispel-wise.  Just some stuff I've been thinking about.


I guess a lot of my rant comes down to this: You're supposed to die sometimes.

Edited by Nadagast, 13 May 2013 - 10:38 PM.


#290 pyrellael_3428244

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:24 AM

View PostNadagast, on 13 May 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Everyone try to remain civil.  :D

I have to say that I think I tend to agree more with the non-chanimals people here than chanimals.  I think that affliction's damage is in a really sad state.  Of course you can do decently if you play with an extremely good healer and an overpowered dps friend (like a mage or shadow priest).  Nobody disagrees with that.  But I think that, chanimals, you underestimate how much your dps buddy carries you in damage on kill attempts.  Of course warlocks have spammable fear and gateway, and those are two really strong abilities.  But our damage is just not at all scary in the slightest.  In a 5-10 second burst window we are probably contributing, at best, half the damage of our partner dps.  If the game was in a state where heals were weaker and people remained wounded for longer, then maybe affliction could be good.  But with the current importance of burst and strength of defensive CDs + heals, I think affliction just does not fit.  There are certainly some comps that affliction can pressure effectively, but there are not enough of them.

About the nerf-OP-classes vs buff-warlocks thing that's been going on: I again have to disagree with chanimals.  I know that shadow priests and mages are overpowered and I don't expect to be buffed to their level.  At the same time, I would not want to play a game of WoW if every dps was balanced as affliction is.  Games would simply never end.


I'm now gonna rant a bit about some thoughts I've been having after some discussions with other players:
As a general point, I think us players need to be careful when asking for nerfs to crazy burst classes.  I don't want to play arenas if every game goes on for 15 minutes, and ideally I want healer/dps 2s to be fun again.  You're going to have to lose games (and in doing so, die) sometime.  If anytime we die, we ask for it to be nerfed, then we're just setting ourselves up for a terrible situation where games always time out (for example, wizard mirrors currently take forever and can time out a lot).  I really dislike zergy comps that spam every CD in the opener, and I don't want that to be viable, but I also don't want to harass the devs so much that every game starts timing out.

I think Wrath was a good balance of 2v2 still being fun (which is important for new players, I think, as well as just being fun sometimes) with dps being able to generate pressure on their own, but being not too crazy in 3s (besides certain comp) and very positioning and skill (rather than cooldown) dependent.  Pressure was also very possible to shut down due to the differences in healers.  Damage was crazy in certain cases in Wrath, but it was crazy in a (usually) counterable way, if you played properly.

It was also possible to sit CC in Wrath for a long time.  Nowadays people complain as soon as they sit a decent CC chain, but half the healers didn't even have dispel in Wrath.  I wonder if Cataclysm spoiled everyone dispel-wise.  Just some stuff I've been thinking about.


I guess a lot of my rant comes down to this: You're supposed to die sometimes.

Nada have my children please.

On topic, Nada is pretty much right on all things that was said, when I play my lock and I play aff my damage is what I like to call "fake damage"

My mage partner even says it doesn't matter what your damage is, just get them down like ~10-15% and i'll finish and guess what if he isn't peeled he finishes them.

However if I go destro and i'm allowed to cast chaos bolts without severe cc put into me I do scary things, but a lot of the top comps have many ways to prevent you from actually doing this pve style damage of bursting with 4 embers and conflags etc.

The thing about affliction damage... and I'm not sure if anyone ever noticed this but, back in 5.1 I was aff w/ grim of sac and I kept fighting this TSG they would tunnel my healer and I would actually just do a full pve rotation of dots/haunt/mal grasp and one of the games we killed the war my mage said wtf did you do to that guy I didn't even use procs .So to what chanimals said I think part of it is a playstyle adjustment.The only problem with tunneling mal grasp into a target is most teams won't let you do that especially when trained.

I just think if they'd make sacrifical pact equal for all specs I'd hate my defensives a lot less, sometimes I die right through all of them and sometimes I feel like they're really strong.

I also feel A LOT Better about my class when I play with a shaman so I wonder how much of it is also my healer not just my dps partner. Currently I'm running MLD and I feel like MLS would be like an extra 200 rating, most of our losses are from insane unhealable damage that a shaman can heal way better.

And back to what nada said, You're supposed to die sometimes, fine by me just lets nerf all the other classes that kill me through sac pact wall and dark regen/HS all used at the sametime >.>

#291 Domesauce

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:42 PM

View PostPoobandit, on 13 May 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Whilst locks only are very good in comps where the 2nd dps can pretty much solo something

This was pretty much all that ever needed to be said in this thread.

Many of us saying locks are shit were successful during this expansion, that doesn't make it fun to be a gateway/cs/fear bot so your teammate can solo stuff.

#292 Selicia

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

Warlocks, as do many classes, need a lot of change (which is ironic, because MoP overhauled many of them - Warlock especially). It's common knowledge affliction is lacking heavily in the damage department.

One thing that really needs to be emphasized, in part to both raise the skill cap of affliction, but also help their damage is to reward them for manually applying dots. The new Soul Swap mechanic is awful. Unfortunately, it won't be gutted until the next expansion. Instead, Blizzard could make additional changes, such as amending the 4pc bonus:

Warlock PvP 4-piece set bonus now increases damage dealt by Agony, Corruption, Doom, Immolate, and Unstable Affliction by 10%. In addition, when these spells are cast individually, their damage is increased by an additional 15%.

By individually, I mean applied without using Soul Swap. The goal of this change would be to reward hard casting to manually apply dots. I chose 15% because it would result in manually applied dots doing 25% more damage, which is roughly the amount lost by the recent PvP Power change. This use of a percentage here also, dare I borrow Ghost Crawler's phrasing, provides the developers another knob to turn when tuning is needed.

I also really dislike Malefic Grasp. It just isn't feasible in arena against cleave teams, or any team with a monk or rogue that want to control the Warlock. It would be interesting if Twilight Ward became a talent. It could be changed to absorb all damage (physical & magical), and have the cooldown and mana cost tuned accordingly. I realize it would be simply be a copy of Ice Barrier, but I don't see such a basic defensive common to two classes being a problem. This change would also free up the 2pc bonus, allowing the following change:

The new 2pc would remove Malefic Grasp. It would also make Haunt no longer require a soul shard, but instead have a cooldown.

I doubt such a change (Twilight Ward + 2pc) would be performed by the developers during an active season. Perhaps 5.4 will allow them to explore such ideas.

I'm just throwing out these ideas to generate some additional discussion (if you dislike them, no worries). Regardless of what happens in 5.3, I'm going to continue to playing with an affliction Warlock. I've always enjoyed playing with one.

Edited by Selicia, 14 May 2013 - 05:20 PM.

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#293 Thaz

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:34 PM

Everything Nada said. +1
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#294 Dagin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:21 PM

View PostNadagast, on 13 May 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Everyone try to remain civil.  :D

I have to say that I think I tend to agree more with the non-chanimals people here than chanimals.  I think that affliction's damage is in a really sad state.  Of course you can do decently if you play with an extremely good healer and an overpowered dps friend (like a mage or shadow priest).  Nobody disagrees with that.  But I think that, chanimals, you underestimate how much your dps buddy carries you in damage on kill attempts.  Of course warlocks have spammable fear and gateway, and those are two really strong abilities.  But our damage is just not at all scary in the slightest.  In a 5-10 second burst window we are probably contributing, at best, half the damage of our partner dps.  If the game was in a state where heals were weaker and people remained wounded for longer, then maybe affliction could be good.  But with the current importance of burst and strength of defensive CDs + heals, I think affliction just does not fit.  There are certainly some comps that affliction can pressure effectively, but there are not enough of them.

About the nerf-OP-classes vs buff-warlocks thing that's been going on: I again have to disagree with chanimals.  I know that shadow priests and mages are overpowered and I don't expect to be buffed to their level.  At the same time, I would not want to play a game of WoW if every dps was balanced as affliction is.  Games would simply never end.


I'm now gonna rant a bit about some thoughts I've been having after some discussions with other players:
As a general point, I think us players need to be careful when asking for nerfs to crazy burst classes.  I don't want to play arenas if every game goes on for 15 minutes, and ideally I want healer/dps 2s to be fun again.  You're going to have to lose games (and in doing so, die) sometime.  If anytime we die, we ask for it to be nerfed, then we're just setting ourselves up for a terrible situation where games always time out (for example, wizard mirrors currently take forever and can time out a lot).  I really dislike zergy comps that spam every CD in the opener, and I don't want that to be viable, but I also don't want to harass the devs so much that every game starts timing out.

I think Wrath was a good balance of 2v2 still being fun (which is important for new players, I think, as well as just being fun sometimes) with dps being able to generate pressure on their own, but being not too crazy in 3s (besides certain comp) and very positioning and skill (rather than cooldown) dependent.  Pressure was also very possible to shut down due to the differences in healers.  Damage was crazy in certain cases in Wrath, but it was crazy in a (usually) counterable way, if you played properly.

It was also possible to sit CC in Wrath for a long time.  Nowadays people complain as soon as they sit a decent CC chain, but half the healers didn't even have dispel in Wrath.  I wonder if Cataclysm spoiled everyone dispel-wise.  Just some stuff I've been thinking about.


I guess a lot of my rant comes down to this: You're supposed to die sometimes.

Based off your conclusion Dr. with his dps buddies ie mages and spriest you're saying they probably need a nerf and since spriest have already been on the chopping block along with rogues, dks ,and hunters we can conclude the next on the list =).
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#295 Toitles

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:03 PM

Well 5.3 is tomorrow and it looks like Affliction (and Frost and Holy) won't be getting any more changes.  On the bright side, the 4 set bonus seems like it'd be pretty easy to hotfix upwards if it's not enough damage; I haven't really tested it, but from playing on live I kind of feel like it should be closer to 15 or 20% than 10%, though 20% sounds a little too high.  Some passive healing would have been really great, maybe on Haunt or just on Drain Life so that it wouldn't be so insanely awful.  It'd also be nice to get a return to our old 20% (or even 15%) damage reduction and 20% extra healing, but with all our modern defensive cooldowns that'd probably be over the top (though I'd rather extra DR that makes us a bad training target!)

Ok so I've only done 2s so far but actually maybe affliction damage is alright.

Edited by Toitles, 22 May 2013 - 12:03 AM.

affix said:

The #1 sign that your thread was unnecessary is if the you can copy+paste the thread title in to google, hit 'I'm feeling lucky', and get your answer

#296 fant0m8

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 03:50 AM

View PostNadagast, on 13 May 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Of course you can do decently if you play with an extremely good healer and an overpowered dps friend (like a mage or shadow priest).  Nobody disagrees with that.  But I think that, chanimals, you underestimate how much your dps buddy carries you in damage on kill attempts.

It was also possible to sit CC in Wrath for a long time.

1) If Warlocks weren't "carried" in kill attempts (i.e. they had great single target damage like other classes) they would be the most absurdly powerful class this game has seen in a long time. You can't keep your "dot 4 targets and do very high constant but spread out DPS" playstyle and ALSO have great spike damage (not even touching the CC/interrupts/defensives side of things).

2) What? Wrath was the expansion of 1 shots. Only wizard cleaves could sit in CC chains because their partners were making the enemy team also sit in CC chains. The rest of us were constantly avoiding the 1 shot. (I like that style, so don't take this as me hating on Wrath, I just don't see how you think people lived longer without heals in Wrath).
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#297 Nadagast

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:20 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 22 May 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

1) If Warlocks weren't "carried" in kill attempts (i.e. they had great single target damage like other classes) they would be the most absurdly powerful class this game has seen in a long time. You can't keep your "dot 4 targets and do very high constant but spread out DPS" playstyle and ALSO have great spike damage (not even touching the CC/interrupts/defensives side of things).

2) What? Wrath was the expansion of 1 shots. Only wizard cleaves could sit in CC chains because their partners were making the enemy team also sit in CC chains. The rest of us were constantly avoiding the 1 shot. (I like that style, so don't take this as me hating on Wrath, I just don't see how you think people lived longer without heals in Wrath).

1. I don't expect affliction to do frost mage burst, but the amount that it contributes is pathetic, with the current state of damage vs healing.

2. I meant DPS could (and often did) sit CC, not healers.  I do think healers could certainly sit some amount of CC in Wrath.  I'm not sure if they could more or less than now, (5.2 or 5.3?) but that wasn't my point.

#298 Chanimal

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:27 AM

just me or do we seem like gods atm?

haven't seen enhance ferals yet, but vs everything else it seems like locks just dominate

on a side note, what happened to drain soul returning shards on pets? why did they revert it? i feel like draining pets is so broken and such a bad mechanic
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#299 Persephones

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:13 AM

View PostPoobandit, on 22 May 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

on a side note, what happened to drain soul returning shards on pets? why did they revert it? i feel like draining pets is so broken and such a bad mechanic

Unless I'm mistaken, drain souling shadow adds from spriests required dots to be on the target, now it's possible with simply drain soul - I thought it was going to be gone entirely too

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#300 saffie

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:25 AM

they removed the drain souling pets all together.

Btw I was thinking perhaps they can make warlock dots ignore resillience to some extend that wouldnt fuck up pve damage, also I've been saying this since MoP release but we really need coil/howl together like the good old times.




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