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Changes I would Like to see for a Balance Druid (5.3)


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#1 Hackattack3

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:39 PM

I saw a few of these posts on other class forums and think it's a great idea to give the devs or whoever is reading some ideas that might not have been mentioned or are not getting enough attention.  If anyone wants to add anything I will add it to my original post and credit the idea accordingly.  I really don't have a lot of requests since I feel that balance druids are in a pretty good place right now.


Recommendations for Balance Druids

1.  Allow a druid to retain eclipse or solar state when arena gates open.  A lot of arena matches are decided upon initial pressure and forcing early CDs.  It puts balance druids at a big disadvantage in arenas (which you don't notice in RBGs) to have to channel to reach eclipse state when the gates drop.  Not to mention hunters, dks, and monks can interrupt or mark you during the channel, so it is risky.  Starting at zero eclipse state leaves the druid with an enormous ramp up time to get any damage rolling (Option A, put up shit dots, spam 20k wraths to get anywhere or Option B, channel behind a pillar while teammates get opened on hard).  Hunters can open with a full zoo/readiness/BW w/ zero ramp up time, mages can drop mirrors/veins/orb right out of invis.  No effect on pve

2.  Small passive snare would be nice, something similar to frostbolt.  Balance druid comps are dependent on a teammate "holding something still" for the boomer to get some casts off, either a mage or rogue.  It's too easy to run around a pillar out of LOS of a balance druid when we don't have starsurge procs and are trying to cast wrath/starfire.  Would also create a larger gap between spamming moonfire/sunfire and actually getting casts off.  This would hopefully provide more versatility to boomer comps so they aren't dependent on a teammate's snare.  No effect on pve

3.  Toning down rogues in any way or form will have a positive impact on balance druids.  We are basically a shittier version of a mage.  

4.  A more attractive 4pc set bonus.  The 2pc bonus is alright since it helps get to eclipse while being trained, but we have soo many escapes and abilities to kite that it's not really necessary.  The 2pc also lowers the effectiveness of the 4pc since you have to channel a lot less.  I am willing to guess that when resil is removed from pvp gear in the upcoming patches a lot of boomers will be running with pve gear for better set bonuses.  Look at the current 2pc and 4pc bonuses on pve gear, 10% crit chance to starsurge?  +1,000 crit and mastery when in nature's grace?  Do we want to see balance druids with close to a 40% crit chance with starsurge?

4. I personally don't like lunar shower. It feels cheesy. If it had a longer duration and didn't punish you for hard casting spells and dropping the stack i'd be more inclined to not run around spamming MF/SF and instant starsurge procs. Maybe a new 4set could be an increased duration on lunar shower so it lasts 5-10 seconds instead of 2. We don't need to be able to move while casting the eclipse thing, it's probably the worst 4-set in game. (Compliments Snuggli)

5. The other option would be giving us a way to actually get starfire/wrath casts off so that we can actually cast in arena: maybe owlkin frenzy makes us immune to pummel for 4 seconds? (long enough to get a cast off)  Making it proc off of frenzy would make it so you couldn't use it offensively, and only use it when you were getting trained by a melee and unable to cast.  Could even just make it provide a cast time reduction on starfire after juking a pummel so that it actually rewarded the fake and they couldn't just LOS it/run circles around you while you cast it. (Compliments Kermithefrog)




With that said I want to say that I very pleased with the current state of balance druid and feel it's one of the only specs out there with several interesting choices on several talent tiers that greatly change gameplay.
displacer beast vs wild charge (T1)
mass entanglement vs typhoon (T3)
incarnation vs force of nature (T4)*force of nature had significant buffs and I don't feel people have played around with it enough
vortex vs bash vs roar (T5)
Heart of wild vs nature's vigil

Edited by Hackattack3, 23 April 2013 - 02:44 PM.


#2 Snuggli

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:47 PM

1 is needed, it's just annoying more than anything to have to run around flailing your arms at the start of each game for 3-4 seconds before you can start doing damage / go into stealth.

2 is definitely debatable. Ranged classes with slows generally rely on more casted spells to do damage, while DoT classes aren't really given a slow. I do agree though, because of this, the only real comps that work are ones with stuns and slows who can babysit the Druids inability to lock down and slow targets, otherwise you could just get pillared for the entire game.

Edited by Snuggli, 22 April 2013 - 07:47 PM.

View PostBraindance, on 11 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#3 Hackattack3

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:53 PM

View PostSnuggli, on 22 April 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

1 is needed, it's just annoying more than anything to have to run around flailing your arms at the start of each game for 3-4 seconds before you can start doing damage / go into stealth.

2 is definitely debatable. Ranged classes with slows generally rely on more casted spells to do damage, while DoT classes aren't really given a slow. I do agree though, because of this, the only real comps that work are ones with stuns and slows who can babysit the Druids inability to lock down and slow targets, otherwise you could just get pillared for the entire game.

1.  and it's risky, getting caught with hunter's mark while tryin to channel ruins your opener.

2.  every ranged class I can think of has a ranged/spammable slow/snare.  Hunters (conc shot or pet w/ snare), mage (obv), spriest (mind flay), lock (destro - conflag, demon - stuns and roots), even shamans (frost shock + ability to move while casting).

#4 Snuggli

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

View PostHackattack3, on 22 April 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

2.  every ranged class I can think of has a ranged/spammable slow/snare.  Hunters (conc shot or pet w/ snare), mage (obv), spriest (mind flay), lock (destro - conflag, demon - stuns and roots), even shamans (frost shock + ability to move while casting).

I said DoT classes, by that I meant Spriest, Affli and Boomer. The Spriest can't slow a target when he's dotting, bursting or healing. Affli locks lose damage by slowing. Boomkins CAN spec into Faerie Swarm and have a spammable slow but it reduces our utility (have to get rid of typhoon or mass root).

I'm not saying whether I agree with it or not, but I think Blizzards design intention was probably that these classes didn't 'need' a slow, because they could do damage even while the target was LoS. It's pretty outdated though, considering all 3 now rely on damage during CDs and their dot damage is pretty balls.

View PostBraindance, on 11 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#5 Contrololold

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

Starsurge dazes the target for 4 seconds.  Plz
twitch.tv/xrags  -- streaming boomkin PoV:  dk/boom/rsham, mage/boom/rsham, rogue/boom/rsham, etc.

Sometimes resto / Mistweaver

#6 Omglockzorx

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

I dont really like the fact that boomies can remove 50% of your health with 1 instant starsurge :s

#7 Snuggli

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:08 PM

View PostOmglockzorx, on 22 April 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

I dont really like the fact that boomies can remove 50% of your health with 1 instant starsurge :s

I don't really like the fact that you can deterrence as soon as the chicken goes massive and red, disengage round a pillar and take 0 damage for all of their 3 min cooldowns.

doesn't really compare.

View PostBraindance, on 11 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#8 Hackattack3

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:09 PM

View PostOmglockzorx, on 22 April 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

I dont really like the fact that boomies can remove 50% of your health with 1 instant starsurge :s

Big crits like that happen rarely (i.e. low crit chance).  For one starsurge to crit 50% of  your hp it would need to crit for >200k.  My high starsurge crit this season is 155k on a mage.

Balance druids also do not have an execute ability like hunters.  If you crit someone over 150k w/ power shot you are rolling your face on kill shot waiting to win.

#9 Hackattack3

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:10 PM

View PostContrololold, on 22 April 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Starsurge dazes the target for 4 seconds.  Plz

Starsurge is plenty boss right now and doesn't need a slow daze.

I was referring to wrath and starfire.

#10

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:38 PM

People actually defending instant cast 150k starsurges lol. Stop being idiots, nothing should hit that hard. Boomkin damage is actually really really high, they need to be careful with buffing them because they could easily be pushed over the edge into the rogue/hunter/mage/spriest category.

#11 Hackattack3

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:51 PM

View PostRadejjj, on 22 April 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

People actually defending instant cast 150k starsurges lol. Stop being idiots, nothing should hit that hard. Boomkin damage is actually really really high, they need to be careful with buffing them because they could easily be pushed over the edge into the rogue/hunter/mage/spriest category.

I agree that 150k crit is too high.

Do you feel there is a difference between a class that can crit for 150k every minute (hunter w/ power shot + BW + trinket) and a class that can crit for 150k every 3 minutes? (boomer w/ starsurge + trinket + incarnation + CA).  Now what if the class that can crit 150k every minute also has a stun, blanket silence, and an execute?

Can we agree 150k starsurges are far from the problem then?

#12

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:58 PM

View PostHackattack3, on 22 April 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

I agree that 150k crit is too high.

Do you feel there is a difference between a class that can crit for 150k every minute (hunter w/ power shot + BW + trinket) and a class that can crit for 150k every 3 minutes? (boomer w/ starsurge + trinket + incarnation + CA).  Now what if the class that can crit 150k every minute also has a stun, blanket silence, and an execute?

Can we agree 150k starsurges are far from the problem then?

This always makes me laugh, whenever someone says something is op, everyone defends it by saying WELL OTHER PEOPLE DO IT TO.

150k starsurges are dumb, 150k power shots are dumb, but they atleast need to be cast. 150k eviscerates are really dumb, and so on and so on. Boomkin damage is really good, all I'm saying is they need to be careful with any kind of buffs they get because they have the potential to quickly become too good.

#13 Zerud

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:38 PM

Agree with 1 and 4.
I'd love if they made moonkin burst reliable like shadow orbs/shatter/fury or embers, not rng reliable. But that would require a whole class overhaul so thats not going to happen.

I'm going to drop Incarnation for the new force of nature next patch. 1min cd no cluncky placement and gcd anymore with 20sec insta root recharge.

#14 Z4muZ

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:47 PM

View PostZerud, on 22 April 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

Agree with 1 and 4.
I'd love if they made moonkin burst reliable like shadow orbs/shatter/fury or embers, not rng reliable. But that would require a whole class overhaul so thats not going to happen.

I'm going to drop Incarnation for the new force of nature next patch. 1min cd no cluncky placement and gcd anymore with 20sec insta root recharge.

Owlbearpig knows best.

Edit: Come AT!

Edit2: Nice sig!!1

Edited by Z4muZ, 22 April 2013 - 09:48 PM.

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#15 Hackattack3

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:59 PM

Posting this on behalf of my friend Udderly (Kermithefrog):

My biggest peev with Moonkin right now (and don't get me wrong, I agree that we are in a fantastic state compared to where we've been) is that I would love to see more changes in line with what they did to Nature's Vigil.  We are so loaded around a 3 minute set of cooldowns that do insane damage and then not doing much for the rest of the match.  Finding a way to buff dots outside of cds and reduce them during would be a great start.  The other option would be giving us a way to actually get starfire/wrath casts off so that we can actually cast in arena: maybe owlkin frenzy makes us immune to pummel for 4 seconds? (long enough to get a cast off)  Making it proc off of frenzy would make it so you couldn't use it offensively, and only use it when you were getting trained by a melee and unable to cast.  Could even just make it provide a cast time reduction on starfire after juking a pummel so that it actually rewarded the fake and they couldn't just LOS it/run circles around you while you cast it.

I do love our talents, and it's one of the only classes that I play where I change talents a ton while doing arenas.

I miss access to lifebloom, but that isn't something I expect to ever get back.  

Nice thread, keep up the discussion!

#16 Hackattack3

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:09 PM

My response to Kermithefrog:

Nature's Vigil change is fantastic, if you just pop it whenever it's up we have 33% uptime.  I've opened recount after short games  and it's healing 5-8k static while doing damage.  Problem I see with an interrupt immunity is people would use it to get un-interruptable cyclones off, which I feel is a bit too strong.  

Another Idea could be once you have 3 stacks of lunar shower active you can cast wrath and starfire while moving.


Off Topic to Other Posts:

It's a shame that people who are passionate about boomer and have valuable input have a tough time contributing due to accessibility and shitters that know nothing about the class can fling garbage in every thread.

We should separate forums where you can only post in a specific class forum if you have "2k" or something along those lines.  General forums and 2s/3s/5s forums should be where everyone can contribute but I don't feel people who have zero idea about a class or how a class works should be able to jump around class forums flinging garbage.

#17 dionim

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:25 PM

View PostHackattack3, on 22 April 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

With that said I want to say that I very pleased with the current state of balance druid and feel it's one of the only specs out there with several interesting choices on several talent tiers that greatly change gameplay.
displacer beast vs wild charge (T1)
mass entanglement vs typhoon (T3)
incarnation vs force of nature (T4)*force of nature had significant buffs and I don't feel people have played around with it enough
vortex vs bash vs roar (T5)
Heart of wild vs nature's vigil

ya, every talent tree should be like that, blizz did really well with druids talents

Edited by dionim, 23 April 2013 - 02:26 PM.


#18 Snuggli

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:27 PM

View PostHackattack3, on 23 April 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

maybe owlkin frenzy makes us immune to pummel for 4 seconds? (long enough to get a cast off)  Making it proc off of frenzy would make it so you couldn't use it offensively, and only use it when you were getting trained by a melee and unable to cast.  Could even just make it provide a cast time reduction on starfire after juking a pummel so that it actually rewarded the fake and they couldn't just LOS it/run circles around you while you cast it.

Actually a really interesting idea, as it'd have absolutely no effect on PvE, which a lot of other changes would. Owlkin frenzy giving an aura mastery effect to wrath/starfire would be nice. I'd leave starsurge/clone out of the effect though, so people can still lock out our biggest hitting ability and our cc.

I personally don't like lunar shower. It feels cheesy. If it had a longer duration and didn't punish you for hard casting spells and dropping the stack i'd be more inclined to not run around spamming MF/SF and instant starsurge procs. Maybe a new 4set could be an increased duration on lunar shower so it lasts 5-10 seconds instead of 2. We don't need to be able to move while casting the eclipse thing, it's probably the worst 4-set in game.

View PostBraindance, on 11 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#19 Hackattack3

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:40 PM

View PostSnuggli, on 23 April 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:


I personally don't like lunar shower. It feels cheesy. If it had a longer duration and didn't punish you for hard casting spells and dropping the stack i'd be more inclined to not run around spamming MF/SF and instant starsurge procs. Maybe a new 4set could be an increased duration on lunar shower so it lasts 5-10 seconds instead of 2. We don't need to be able to move while casting the eclipse thing, it's probably the worst 4-set in game.

Absolutely agree,

I'm dropping 4-set the second they remove resil from gear.  I'm going w/ pve 2pc for 10% starsurge crit chance.

Increasing the duration of lunar shower is a great idea.  It's so short right now that it punishes you for wanting to do anything other than spamming.  If you cast a healing touch, cyclone, or wrath/starfire/starsurge it will certainly drop off.  

Adding those ideas to initial list.

#20 Michaelltnt

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:45 PM

back in the days before we had starsurge, blizzard had a knockback stun on it for like 1-2sec just like warrior charge. But it dident go live

Nerf boomkin cooldowns to 2min. but make it less powerfull.
Hearth of the Wild should be nerfed to 3min - uptime 15sec, just gives us an extra cd to survive vs impossible stuff.

ps: scumbag ww monks cant run cant hide from them :(

Edited by Michaelltnt, 23 April 2013 - 03:49 PM.





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