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#61 samuser1234

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:25 AM

View PostBraindance, on 21 April 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

What is the point of sharing an opinion if you are not trying to convince someone? I am sorry you feel offended and find my attitude disgusting but I also find your opinion on zeker rage disgusting and biased.

He must be disgusting and biased because when he decided to post his opinions about what he thought would improve the game, he happened to think differently than you.

There are a lot of game improving changes that would be nerfs to classes, just because those classes arent FOTM doesnt mean the game cant be improved by changing things. Yeah, on my list of shit i wish was different, berserking rage is pretty damn low, but the CD is still a little too short. The only real way to fix this game is to nerf everything to the ground and build it back up, not keep buffing classes in a cycle to keep everyone feeling viable every other season. Swallow your pride and accept that in the end every class has silly mechanics that could be looked at.

For instance, CnD and Subterfuge together is stupidly OP and i would like to see changes even though that hurts my class. Does that make me disgusting and biased? No it means i want to improve the game.

Now please stop complaining about a spell simply because its your classes, were trying to have a rational discussion and youre getting all bitchy and emotional.
#1 rogue trip deepz USA, u mad bro?

#62 Persephones

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:27 AM

It's true that in an arguement your goal is generally to convince the other part to take your stand, but your way of doing it is retarded. It's basically "agree or you're a dumb kiddy". If people aren't being convinced, it could be that your argument is just stupid as shit.

Let me give you a few examples of useless shit:

View PostBraindance, on 21 April 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

I am terrified at the thought that some blizz developer might see all this elementary level bs you are writing about zeker rage

Quote

.....do not ever compare warriors to other melee. Other melee have more lockdowns and more ways to avoid cc. Warriors do NOT. The ONLY thing that warriors can do is damage. I have watched my class being stripped of everything that defined it. You will NOT take zeker rage out.
I could go on looking through your post history, but cba.

Yeah it's obviously us (the ones wanting tremor/berserker looked at) that are extremely biased nad you're the king of arguements with those fine statements.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#63 Braindance

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:29 AM

View Postsamuser1234, on 21 April 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

He must be disgusting and biased because when he decided to post his opinions about what he thought would improve the game, he happened to think differently than you.

There are a lot of game improving changes that would be nerfs to classes, just because those classes arent FOTM doesnt mean the game cant be improved by changing things. Yeah, on my list of shit i wish was different, berserking rage is pretty damn low, but the CD is still a little too short. The only real way to fix this game is to nerf everything to the ground and build it back up, not keep buffing classes in a cycle to keep everyone feeling viable every other season. Swallow your pride and accept that in the end every class has silly mechanics that could be looked at.

For instance, CnD and Subterfuge together is stupidly OP and i would like to see changes even though that hurts my class. Does that make me disgusting and biased? No it means i want to improve the game.

Now please stop complaining about a spell simply because its your classes, were trying to have a rational discussion and youre getting all bitchy and emotional.
I am getting bitchy and emotional because people like this turned my class into a braindead damage dealing machine. Intercept is op let's remove it. Shield block is too strong vs melee let's remove it. Reflect is op let's triple the cd.

Any slight touch of finesse my class had has been removed and now we are talking about removing niche abilities that are older than those forums. So yes, I will get emotional.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#64 Braindance

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:31 AM

View PostPersephones, on 21 April 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

It's true that in an arguement your goal is generally to convince the other part to take your stand, but your way of doing it is retarded. It's basically "agree or you're a dumb kiddy". If people aren't being convinced, it could be that your argument is just stupid as shit.

Let me give you a few examples of useless shit:



I could go on looking through your post history, but cba.

Yeah it's obviously us (the ones wanting tremor/berserker looked at) that are extremely biased nad you're the king of arguements with those fine statements.
Go through all my posts in this thread and you will see why I am acting like this. I explained in detail why nerfing zeker is bad:
No. And why not? Simply because:

a) Warriors are by far the easiest dps class to control (apart from rets)
b ) Berserk rage is one of the oldest abilities in the game.
c) I cannot recall a single patch where psychic scream's cooldown was adjusted, especially due to brage
d) Warriors are far from being immune to fear nowadays
e) Brage has a duration of 6 seconds now down from 10, whilst, at the same time more fears where introduced in the game (psyfiend)
f) No one ever whined about zeker rage even in BC where landing a fear on a warrior awarded you a feat of strength. Just because tremor is retarded, doesn't mean that zeker rage is retarded as well

Wanna take abilities like this out of the game? Sure. Then remove:

1) AMS
2) IBF
3) Remove blink's component that removes stuns
4) Cloak of shadows
5) Druid shapeshifting
6) Lichborne

Remove the above then remove zeker rage which is the weakest element in this equation.

Can you see my point now?

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#65 samuser1234

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:33 AM

Its not like warriors wouldnt get compensated, but when any class has an on demand short CD cc breaker, all other classes get CC buffs to compensate, then classes get more cc breakers, and the cycle repeats.  Just look at the difference in CC each Xpack. Its not like nerfing berserker rage would be an independent nerf, it would probably go along with nerfs to instant cc's/BM/cloak/DK cc breaks/tremor etc, and it would be good for the game to remove some ccs and immunities, i for one want to play my character.
#1 rogue trip deepz USA, u mad bro?

#66 Persephones

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:44 AM

View PostBraindance, on 21 April 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

1) AMS
2) IBF
3) Remove blink's component that removes stuns
4) Cloak of shadows
5) Druid shapeshifting
6) Lichborne

Remove the above then remove zeker rage which is the weakest element in this equation.

Can you see my point now?

This "list" of abilities are all either tied into survivability CDs or have a much longer CD. No other class in the game beside shamans/druids have got this "lols I'm countering your class defining shit".

Speaking of which, I think it's worth noting that the arguably two best healers in the game are also partly immune certain forms of CC. Shamans countering warlocks, spriest/dspriest pretty hard whilst druids counter mages pretty hard. All of which are dominant in the current meta game. Guess why paladins are lackluster along with priests generally being funneled into rushdown comps (thugs, jungle)

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#67 Doomnatrah

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:46 AM

lets not act like shamans haven't been nerfed in MoP.  Last season we saw the removal of using totems while silenced, shear moved to a 12 sec cd, purge glyph nerfed, Ancestral Swiftness CD increased,

All of these nerfs were because of Resto Shamans.

Ele and Enhance historically were infamous for caster control, and cc prevention.  With the nerf to using totems while silenced any decent team just blankets the shaman to prevent grounding totem, tremor totem etc.  These days its quite the opposite, long cd on shear, CD on defensive dispel, allows mages and locks to just spam cc over and over again.

So are we suggesting for those claiming tremor needs to be removed, that elemental and enhance are deserving of ANOTHER staple to the shaman dps specs being removed?

Btw i agree 34 sec tremor is pretty broken, but so are alot of things in this game.

#68 samuser1234

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:49 AM

View PostPersephones, on 21 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Guess why paladins are lackluster along with priests generally being funneled into rushdown comps (thugs, jungle)

Im gona go with shadow priest as my final answer. TBH, paladins will be in a much better place after the MD nerfs. Although they still need a bit of a healing buff to compensate the silly mastery nerf for PVE heroes.... Or maybe not, we will see how the changes to battle fatigue/PVP power change things.
#1 rogue trip deepz USA, u mad bro?

#69 samuser1234

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:51 AM

View PostDoomnatrah, on 21 April 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

So are we suggesting for those claiming tremor needs to be removed, that elemental and enhance are deserving of ANOTHER staple to the shaman dps specs being removed?


I thought the argument was that it was too short a CD and shouldnt be on their silly readiness ability, not for removal.

Also, i could see the changes being spec dependent like the priest changes in 5.3 in order to not gut enhance/elemental

Edited by samuser1234, 21 April 2013 - 06:51 AM.

#1 rogue trip deepz USA, u mad bro?

#70 Braindance

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:52 AM

View PostPersephones, on 21 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

This "list" of abilities are all either tied into survivability CDs or have a much longer CD. No other class in the game beside shamans/druids have got this "lols I'm countering your class defining shit".

Speaking of which, I think it's worth noting that the arguably two best healers in the game are also partly immune certain forms of CC. Shamans countering warlocks, spriest/dspriest pretty hard whilst druids counter mages pretty hard. All of which are dominant in the current meta game. Guess why paladins are lackluster along with priests generally being funneled into rushdown comps (thugs, jungle)
And that is why I don't believe in removing immunities. I like the way the game works now where you have to press a button to counter something. If you could get ccd for 10 seconds every minute then yes remove immunities. But with how cc works right now you simply cannot take immunities out. You can't keep adding cc in the game without adding immunities. Just look at how many more cc abilities classes got since bc. Almost every expansion each class gets 1 more cc (apart from warriors who only get more braindead buttons). So, unless they totally re haul the whole cc system zeker should stay as is. On the contrary, tremor is a game breaker simply because it removes fear from 3 people not 1 person, thus completely negating well placed triple fears etc. I don't think zeker rage has ever deprived anyone of a killed or ruined someones quality of life.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#71 Djandawg

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:59 AM

View Postdjp771133, on 21 April 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

k, tremor is broken as fuck yeah.  Whoever brought zerker rage into this thread had to be fucking high, I'm pretty sure nobody has a problem with zerker rage, because there is like a million and a half other ways to peel a warrior.  The reason tremor is broken is because shaman healers are immune to like half the cc in the game.  As a warrior it is actually impossible to fear a shaman, unless we have more fears on the team.  I feel as though it feels the same as a lock or any other class that relys on fears for cc.
Obviously tremor totem is incomparably worse for the game than berserker rage but people complained about that for quite some time , they just gave up and/or warriors got more retarded stuff to complain about. That said any self cc breaking ability is retarded, it used to be  a paladin thing because they were too susceptible to cc.
I go out of position, risk possible cc chain / swap on me to land a "melee range" fear and half of the classes can break it. I would like to see a 30 second cd  stun breaker or 30 sec cd poly/disorient breaker on a few classes, then how would people like the state of the game?. There would be endless qq posts, right? Some people are not being objective right now because it's breaking another classes cc, so it's ok.

They really need to remove extra trinket like abilities. It's a healer's job to dispel cc, and like I said million times,  they should revert the dispel system back to the way it was during cata, dispel cd and extra trinket abilities are disgusting and ruining the game.They also should get rid of some CC added on MoP.

Edited by Djandawg, 21 April 2013 - 04:08 PM.


#72 samppax

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:13 AM

as disc is not that hard burn tremor with psyfiend

#73 Nightmonkey

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:46 AM

View PostPersephones, on 21 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

This "list" of abilities are all either tied into survivability CDs or have a much longer CD. No other class in the game beside shamans/druids have got this "lols I'm countering your class defining shit".

Speaking of which, I think it's worth noting that the arguably two best healers in the game are also partly immune certain forms of CC. Shamans countering warlocks, spriest/dspriest pretty hard whilst druids counter mages pretty hard. All of which are dominant in the current meta game. Guess why paladins are lackluster along with priests generally being funneled into rushdown comps (thugs, jungle)

Berserker Rage is one of those class defining abilities though.  Warriors have always been difficult to fear, far more so in the past than they are now.  It's one of their quirks, they're hard to fear.  Back in BC some classes hard countered others and that's a part of why we saw a very limited number of classes at the higher levels of PvP.  In WotLK there was a lot more variety in the classes/specs that could be successful in PvP.

Now we have a game where almost anything can be viable at fairly high ratings with the right players, but we paid for it with the loss of a lot of unique class defining quirks.  Whether or not that is a good or bad thing is up for debate.  The problem is that once you get to a certain level you still only run into something like 3 different comps.

In this specific case though, I feel like nothing should be done to Berserker Rage.  The case against it is very flimsy.  Berserker Rage has stood the test of time in many different iterations of this game that were very different from each other because it feels right for the class. To remove it would feel like removing blink from a mage.  It's just one of those iconic things that they do, and while it might feel obnoxious to you since you are a Warlock, it doesn't make any difference against some other classes.

#74 Mirionx

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 11:39 AM

tremor is fine because sps are getting nerfed

logic

#75 Conviqx

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:00 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 21 April 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Obviously tremor totem is incomparably worse than berserker rage


hold on am i reading this right? I just woke up so i just want to make sure, u think tremor, Will of the Forsaken for your whole party on a 30s cd, is worse than an ability that has the same cooldown and breaks out 1 target from a fear that some people even use to break out of saps and gouges?
http://www.twitch.tv/conviq

Dost Thou Even Hoist?

#76 KIA Skill

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:36 PM

Tremor totem is literally the most anti-fun, skill-less, and completely braindead mechanic to exist in this game currently. It literally requires no skill to use. You don't have to use it preemptively and it cleanses your whole team, you don't even have to target....

Just follow my guide and re-role totem and collect free glad until they fix their shit game.

#77 Environ

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:18 PM

View PostBraindance, on 21 April 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

No. And why not? Simply because:

a) Warriors are by far the easiest dps class to control (apart from rets)
b ) Berserk rage is one of the oldest abilities in the game.
c) I cannot recall a single patch where psychic scream's cooldown was adjusted, especially due to brage
d) Warriors are far from being immune to fear nowadays
e) Brage has a duration of 6 seconds now down from 10, whilst, at the same time more fears where introduced in the game (psyfiend)
f) No one ever whined about zeker rage even in BC where landing a fear on a warrior awarded you a feat of strength. Just because tremor is retarded, doesn't mean that zeker rage is retarded as well

Wanna take abilities like this out of the game? Sure. Then remove:

1) AMS
2) IBF
3) Remove blink's component that removes stuns
4) Cloak of shadows
5) Druid shapeshifting
6) Lichborne

Remove the above then remove zeker rage which is the weakest element in this equation.

Your so biased it makes my eyes bleed. I bet your the kind of guy that though warriors in 5.1 could do with a couple more buff's in fact because they weren't perfect.

Anyway to make posts from certain people just not show ?  Pretty please ?

Edited by Environ, 21 April 2013 - 01:22 PM.


#78 Chanimal

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:49 PM

View PostZilea, on 21 April 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

.. i was trying to say that tremor totem on a 45s cooldown is still too short

You weren't clear at all, I thought 45s was a bit of a stretch tbh
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#79 Jeffisnumberone

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 02:38 PM

Just remove Tremor from Totemic Restoration..problem solved.
Posted ImagePosted Image

#80 gangstalicious

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 03:18 PM

mana drain was a class defining ability :duckers:




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