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(Boomkin) RBG Help again! ):


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#1 MrCer

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 02:18 PM

So I found this guy that does runs 2.2k+ RBGs and occasionally does an alt run @1.9kcr+(his DK is 1.9kcr atm).

Anyways, all his DPS are amazing. Even if the team we are facing has really good locks, our mage/spriest can out damage them somehow.

Anywho, our DK managed to do half a million more damage than me somehow. The rogue was in last place in damage. The Shadow Priest, Lock, and Mage were top 3 in the damage charts. That same game, I did 4.5million Healing(rej spamming and popping tranq when needed).

The DK(our rbg leader) said that I need to pick up the DPS. He says he should never be out dpsing me(he is using honor wep and I'm using tyrann wep). However that game, I was in a heavy resil set. I just changed my boomkin gear to a more glasscannon-type.



A few questions:

1. I linked two other boomkins, one stacks Crit/Mastery and the other stacks Crit/Haste. Which of them are gearing correctly?

2. Looking at my current gear, what else can I do to it so I can pump out more damage?

3. Is there a PvE trinket worth getting that will allow me to do even more damage or should I stick with the PvP trinket?


4. Jade Spirit or Glorious Tyranny?


5. For topping the damage charts, Should I DoT Spread as much as possible and instart-starsurge Kill targets? Or should I be hard casting non-stop on the kill targets instead?

6. When I pop all my CDs, Should I be DoTtabbing everything or should I hardcast? Which will allow me to do the most overall damage?

7. The other team we faced had two Monk Healers, would their AoE Cleanse also be a reason why I couldn't put out as much damage?

8. Troll or Tauren for RBG Boomying?

EDIT: I tried to post armory links, but says I need 10+ posts ):

#2 Zaephyr

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 02:43 PM

dk can + should easily do the most damage in a rbg group
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#3 Nodge

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:57 PM

3. Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault is an easy to obtain trinket that would increase damage at the cost of survivability and it not being guaranteed to be up with CDs. There are probably other PvE trinkets from raids that are better but I've no idea which.
4. Jade Spirit
5. If you only care about damage then you should just DoT every possible target and not even use starsurge procs unless there's no more targets without DoTs on them. However, it's better to just multi DoT and use starsurge procs on kill targets for the group overall as it will help with kills more.
6. Dotting everything will give the most damage. It's generally only worth hardcasting if you're nuking a FC or have noone else to dot and no starsurge procs. In these cases it's best to cast starfires.
7. That would lower your damage a bit but not by a crazy amount as it has a long CD and they're probably not using it on CD either.
8. Troll

#4 MrCer

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:03 PM

Ty Nodgey!

Should I go with Crit > Mastery > Haste or Crit > Haste > Mastery for damage output?

#5 Nodge

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:33 PM

I'm not really sure; the only maths I've seen regarding stat priority is for PvE and so doesn't really apply to PvP for various reasons. I would "guess" that it's best to go haste to 6637 as this is the breakpoint for an extra DoT tick without Nature's Grace up and Nature's Grace won't have a particularly high uptime in a PvP environment (breakpoint calculator here). Then I think mastery would be better if you were only dotting and ignoring starsurge procs and crit would be better if you were dotting but using starsurge procs. I am not at all sure about this though; there's so many different factors to take into account that you'd really have make a spreadsheet to figure out the absolute optimum.
Out of the two you listed though I think Crit > Mastery > Haste for RBGs.

#6 MrCer

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:41 PM

I really appreciate the helpfulness of these forums. I'll check out the link and do some hard theorycrafting for how my gearing will look in full tyran by using those haste breakpoints.

Thank you again!

#7 MrCer

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:41 PM

I appologize in advance if doubleposting is not allowed.

Ty again for linking me that site. I did a lot of theorycrafting and here's what I came up with:


With 5% Haste buff, the haste cap is 6637(nearly impossible to reach in tyrann gear unless you gem haste or use a pve trinket with haste).

With 5% haste + NG, the haste cap is 5273. This is reachable, however you lose 3-5% Crit and just about all your mastery to reach this. Which means yeah you have the haste cap, but you lose a lot of baseline damage from eclipse and CDs popped.

That being said, most people don't stack haste this season and go with Crit > Mastery > Haste.

However, assuming you're popping all your CDs, If you went Trollracial w/ Herb + NG + 5% Haste buff; the haste cap is only 2802. This will still allow you to have 24% Crit and almost 3.6k Mastery. And for those who didn't know, boomkins in BiS gear(who don't stack haste) will sit at about 4.1k mastery, 25% crit, and about 1.8k haste.

Basically that haste cap is you blowing all your CDs, and maxing out your dmg from DoTtabbing the entire team.

Would this be a good way to go? You're losing about 500 mastery and 1% crit to get a reachable Haste cap(an extra 1,000 haste) when you're popping CDs. And like you said Nodgey, the only time you'll ever be hardcasting with CDs popped is when everyone is focusing down the EFC.

Wouldn't this be the best option to go with, to maximize your damage, while your CDs are up-- from dot-tabbing the entire team?(for horde at least)

EDIT: Not to mention, more haste means faster cyclones/roots/rejticks/heals/hardcasting :)

#8 Nodge

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:12 PM

Yeah that definitely seems a good way to me; it'd probably mean slightly lower overall damage but a fair bit more damage when you're popping CDs. If I wasn't gearing primarily for arenas that's probably what I'd aim for.

#9 MrCer

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:51 AM

Also

as a bookin, my offheals are pretty good. This goes for just about any rbg team, there comes a time when your 3 healers get put into a CC chain or the other team unleashes a big heep of damage all at once.

My question is:
how often should a boomkin be throwing rej's out in rbgs?

Every time I use a rej, that GCD could of been used to deal more damage. When ever I take the time to throw offheals, it'll lower my damage output. So should I be focusing less on offhealing(let the dps dps and the heals heal) and more on the damage dealing?

#10 Nodge

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:14 PM

Not very often in fights involving the majority or the entire team. It can occasionally be worth it when your whole team is low and you're pretty confident that most of the rejuv will actually heal them and they won't just get topped or die a second after you put it up as it will help your healers conserve mana a little bit.

In smaller fights it is more often worth rejuving if your healer(s) is/are struggling as it is more likely that your rejuvs will last their full duration and do healing each tick. If there are no friendly healers around then it's just about always worth keeping rejuvs on anything below about 80%.

It is difficult to keep an eye on your team's health and seeing when you should rejuv whilst watching enemy positioning, managing DoTs etc. so really until you're just basically on autopilot when it comes to dealing damage and positioning it's perhaps best to just forget about using rejuvenation outside of the small scale 1-3 v 1-3 ish fights and just use tranquility in the large fights until you barely have to think about what you're doing when it comes to DPSing.

Edited by Nodge, 22 April 2013 - 05:15 PM.


#11 Hackattack3

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

In regard to the haste cap,

You should be shooting for 5273 not 6637 since you will be dotting things up when you enter an eclipse state or pop CDs.

Haste cap is over-rated for pvp, a lot of times peopel will dispell and you have to re-apply.  It's only beneficial when the dot runs for close to the entire duration (and you get that extra tick).

Applying pve numbers to a pvp environment for a boomkin leads you to over-value haste and under-value mastery.  Our 2pc bonus allows us to move between eclipse states more freely than comparable pve gear and set bonuses, making mastery MORE valuable than when you see on spreadsheets.

For example,
Let's say your playstyle is to cc/off heal when not in eclipse and wait for damage procs or channeling to move into an eclipse state.  You will have close to 100% of your damage coming during an eclipse phase, meaning mastery is amazing in that situation.

If you hard cast wrath and starfire to move between eclipses then crit/haste is more valuable.


TL;DR, comes down to playstyle.

#12 Hackattack3

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostMrCer, on 22 April 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

Also

as a bookin, my offheals are pretty good. This goes for just about any rbg team, there comes a time when your 3 healers get put into a CC chain or the other team unleashes a big heep of damage all at once.

My question is:
how often should a boomkin be throwing rej's out in rbgs?

Every time I use a rej, that GCD could of been used to deal more damage. When ever I take the time to throw offheals, it'll lower my damage output. So should I be focusing less on offhealing(let the dps dps and the heals heal) and more on the damage dealing?

This is 100% situational.  If you run 2xheals it might be worth it to go heart of wild spec.

If you are left alone with the FC, might be good to off heal if they train down your healer.

#13 MrCer

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 03:32 AM

I have another question.

A lot of times i see people posting a recount on CC done in the RBG(on team maps) and recount doesn't count beam as a CC.

That being said, my CC is not very high compared to others. But I like to think I throw out 1 cyclone per minute. About how often should I be cycloning?




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