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#1 Pawzz

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:41 PM

I have been watching some streams lately, and most of the games the players sit in CC most of the game. 2x fear into cyclone into bash, then you try to catch up with the target and you are feared 2x again, sending you to the end of the arena. You get the point.
With the amount of burst and overall damage going on this is game breaking.
Thugcleave openers for example, there is no way you can cast for the first 20 seconds of a game, garrot, cheapshot, silencing shot, stun, kindney and maybe a fear to follow it up, while trying to fake the rogue kick.

I just want to know your opinion on the topic, is there too much cc or is it ok? What should be changed?

#2 Fleinflex

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:46 PM

I definetly think its too much CC in arena, against some spell cleaves and any hunter team I can't controll my character for 30 seconds straight-.-

I pay 10 euros a month for this game, can I play it plz?
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#3 Marshmellow

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:47 PM

Infracted for trolling
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#4 augiddin

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:49 PM

A blue mentioned a blog coming out tomarrow, interested to see what they have to say. He also said drs will be atleast brought up in the blog.

#5 Claynz

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:53 PM

I'm just tired of facing thug with shado-dog assault trinket.

#6 Pawzz

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

View Postaugiddin, on 18 April 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

A blue mentioned a blog coming out tomarrow, interested to see what they have to say. He also said drs will be atleast brought up in the blog.

Lets hope something good will come out of this.
http://blue.mmo-cham...-too-damn-high/

Quote

With regards to crowd control, we don't really feel like there is too much of it, right now. We feel that CC is integral to PvP because without it battles simply become about tunneling and burst cooldowns. This is actually another situation where the question is touched on in a bit more detail in the "Ask the Devs — The Answers" blog which we plan to post tomorrow. So be sure to keep your eyes open for that :)
"They" apparently think there is not "too" much cc, thats why I wanted to ask the AJ community.

#7 Conviqx

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

Remove 3rd DR from the game, thoughts?
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#8 Pawzz

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:02 PM

View PostConviqx, on 18 April 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Remove 3rd DR from the game, thoughts?
I would just increase the DR cooldown from ~20(?) to maybe 25 or 30 seconds and yes maybe remove the third DR.

#9 Pawzz

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:05 PM

I think the cause of the whole CC dilemma is the simultaneous introduction of CD on dispell aswell as the homogenization of the talent trees.
Every hunter can have Silencing Shot, every lock can have SF or Howl, every Pala can have rep, every Druid can have Bash, resulting in more cc across the board + less possible dispells.

#10 Mbgz

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:06 PM

there is way to much cc in arena, it is actually quite frustrating to play arena at the moment.

Ret/hunter/disc comes to mind, even when you win the game you are frustrated out of your mind as a healer since you were in scatter/trap/silence/fear/fist of justice spam for close to 80% of the game.

regardless of a balance perspective, it is just reaching a point where it's frustrating and unfun to play.

#11 Welgard

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:11 PM

The biggest problem imo isn't just the CC, but primarily the vast increase in available stuns and blanket silences.  The ability to cc someone, while absolutely annihilating their teammate with blanket stuns and silences, is just a mess.  3 players are able to chain so many stuns and silences into a single target while cc'ing both of his teammates that it's just crazy.  There is no way to stop half of it too, when very few things have a cast time.

#12 Hyuru

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:14 PM

View PostWelgard, on 18 April 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

The biggest problem imo isn't just the CC, but primarily the vast increase in available stuns and blanket silences.  The ability to cc someone, while absolutely annihilating their teammate with blanket stuns and silences, is just a mess.  3 players are able to chain so many stuns and silences into a single target while cc'ing both of his teammates that it's just crazy.  There is no way to stop half of it too, when very few things have a cast time.
Pretty much this, and people have been saying that for a loooong time, this isnt something new and I think everyone agrees.

This thread is pointless.

Edited by Hyuru, 18 April 2013 - 08:14 PM.

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#13 Pawzz

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

View PostHyuru, on 18 April 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

Pretty much this, and people have been saying that for a loooong time, this isnt something new and I think everyone agrees.

This thread is pointless.


Everybody agrees? Blizzard apparently doesn't and if this isn't brought to their attention then it wont get fixed.

Your comment is pointless.

#14 Artofmage

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostPawzz, on 18 April 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

I have been watching some streams lately, and most of the games the players sit in CC most of the game. 2x fear into cyclone into bash, then you try to catch up with the target and you are feared 2x again, sending you to the end of the arena. You get the point.
With the amount of burst and overall damage going on this is game breaking.
Thugcleave openers for example, there is no way you can cast for the first 20 seconds of a game, garrot, cheapshot, silencing shot, stun, kindney and maybe a fear to follow it up, while trying to fake the rogue kick.

I just want to know your opinion on the topic, is there too much cc or is it ok? What should be changed?
this cc ur talking about has been like that since wrath , any other news?

#15 Pawzz

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:19 PM

View PostYarmyxx, on 18 April 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

this cc ur talking about has been like that since wrath , any other news?
Since MoP there has been an increase in cc, simply because every class gets new spells each addon and the new talent tree also provide cc options. Also in Wotlk there was a cd on dispell, making sheep and fear weaker.

Also that doesnt mean it cant be changed now.

#16 Eveny

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:26 PM

Ah well at least you can eat cookies or dinner during cc before it gets cold lol

On a more serious note : maybe they should mess around with the dr tables more like switching shit up or merging some sorts of cc.
hell stop giving every class more cc abilities.
If you have problems understanding my post, don't assume something and hit the reply button but read it again.

#17 Conviqx

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:26 PM

re design the game so casters actually have to cast the majority of their spells and kick/interrupts actually matter, then u can start nerfing stuff like blanket CS/garrote/silencing shot/Strang etc. so u can actually outplay your oppenent by faking them atleast. should take away A LOT of the CC imo and promote some more skillfull gameplay.

Kicking someone now barely forces/does anything.
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#18 samuser1234

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:30 PM

The issue is that when the DR system was first put out, most classes had very few CCs and burst was lower. Back in the day mages just had sheep Drs and a counterspell, warlocks just had fear DRs etc, which was fine because burst was lower, and to get a team with a lot of CC you had to play pretty specific comps. Nowadays everyone is on about 3 different DRs at a minimum. I will include in this list only CCs that affect healers since the issue i hear from people is that they feel their healer never leaves cc, so he cant dispel their cc and they cant play their toons either.

Spriest: Silence/fear/horrify/mind control (Disc only have fear/MC, and MC is only used in 2s).
Mage: Silence/stun/sheep/dragons breath
rogue: sap/blind/stun/silence/slow cast
warrior: stun/fear/silence
DK: Stun/silence/slow cast
Hunter: stun/scatter/trap/fear (on beasts)
paladins: repent/stun/blinding light
warlocks: Fear/horrify/silence/some specs have stuns/cast slow
shaman: Hex/stun
druid: Cyclone/stun/disorient/Anything given by their bond
Monk: Sap/silence/stun

As we can see, a lot of CC has been added to the game without any sort of DR change. The bigger issue isnt that they can CC 1 person for days, its more than most ideal comps can rotate cc on 2 targets at once without issue. TBH i thing the major issue here is healer cc. (Except shaman, who had tremor to compensate). A lot of healers have gotten a giant CC boost, while this isnt the only issue, it works a s a gap filler in cc, so that when poly/fears ends on your healer against something like Mage/spriest/Hpaladin, instead of being able to heal or making the casters use a 30 second Silence cd, you could either get paladins stunned or blinding lighted, into a silence, which is enough time to get another fear set up.

The issue from this ofc is that the mage didnt even have to use his deep freeze or his counterspell, so now he can freely global someone in a DF without even sacrificing CC.

I suppose there are 2 ways to fix this issue, A. revisit the DR tables and make it a lot harder to cc chain people, this probably will be  a temp solution and wont fix many problems. Or B, remove some cc from players to limit their lockout ability. We already see this with BM hunters losing their pet stun or silence shot, there is no need for some casters to be on 4 separate DR lists, with most of the casts being instant... Which brings me to my final point, why is almost every CC In the game instant cast? Blind has considered extremely strong as a 2 minute fear with an instant cast (People were complaining a LOT when it got brought down from 3 min i 5.2), but now almost every class  has some 4-8 second duration instant CC that is semi spammable (usually 30ish second CD). And there is almost no skill in using it because with such a short CD there is no benefit to holding it.

Another huge issue with healers having so much CC is that when a team is ahead, he healer can spam CC and push the other team further behind, but the team who is behind needs to heal... So his healer cant cc, and it just spirals from there.



TLDR: Healers have too much CC, and a lot of other classes should be brought down on the amount of DRs they cover. And/Or the DR table needs to be revisited to prevent such little overlap by most classes.

Finally the last option is just to make more CCs have a cast time to make them more preventable/skillful.


Also i typed the CC table up off the top of my head, feel free to correct anything i missed

Edited by samuser1234, 18 April 2013 - 08:35 PM.

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#19 Mattadoro

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:37 PM

disarms as well
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#20 samuser1234

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:38 PM

View PostMattadoro, on 18 April 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

disarms as well

Was mostly worried about things that locked healers out, or would have included slows/roots/disarms
#1 rogue trip deepz USA, u mad bro?




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