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Theorycrafting - Which pala buff?


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#1 Persephones

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:06 PM

So, I'm unfortunate enough to be playing with a Paladin in 3s (DK/Lock/Pala) and we've been on the subject of which buff multiple times.

Blessing of Kings is a 5% intellect increase, so it obviously scales better.

But Blessing of Might gives 3001 mastery, which is ~15% DoT damage.

In my case I'm generally the target for the other team, so the vast majority of my damage comes purely from DoTs. Anyone have any idea which one of them is the better choice? I've been trying to look at the PvE nerds' website, and can't really find any indicater of their DPS increase.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#2 Filthpig

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:20 PM

Best way to determine this would be to play a game each with the buffs running recount and just see what your dots tick for in comparison with the alternative buff. Don't go off total damage dealt, but individual ticks and you'll be able to figure out what does more damage. Also, does kings stack with Dark Intent?

#3 Persephones

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

Dark Intent is spell damage, Kings is intellect, so yeah they stack.

I considered doing that, but felt so many factors could manipulate the numbers. Some people having more or less resilience, some classes having passive reduction etc etc.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#4 Nadagast

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 06:51 PM

Put a Corruption up on one target dummy with Kings, record the number, then have him put up Might, put up another Corruption.  Use whichever gives you a larger number.

If you wanted to be really thorough you could do this also for UA and Agony, although I expect that the answer (whichever way it ends up being) will be the same for all three dots.

I'd bet that Might is significantly better than Kings.

#5 Smygenv

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:13 PM

Well for your pala might is 10 times better
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#6 Feliclandelo

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:49 PM

You currently have 14200 intellect. What do you prefer? 710 intellect or 3000 mastery?

710 intellect would be 4,5 gems.
3000 mastery would be 9,4 gems.

So even if mastery is only worth half the value of intellect in terms of dps (which I highly doubt it is), it will still be better. Otherwise just do as the others say, put up a dot and check.

If you swapped all your resilience gems out for intellect, or get better gear, you can probably indeed start to consider using kings.

Edited by Feliclandelo, 18 April 2013 - 09:49 PM.


#7 Evolute

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:24 AM

I usually put might with warlocks, simply due to the fact that Paladin's ALSO adore mastery so even if it's a small decrease in overall damage compared to intellect, it's better for the holy paladin team as a whole.

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#8 Persephones

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:14 AM

Derp, don't know why I didn't think of the dummy test, or better yet, simply do a duel with Might and another with Kings against the same guy.

View PostFeliclandelo, on 18 April 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

You currently have 14200 intellect. What do you prefer? 710 intellect or 3000 mastery?

710 intellect would be 4,5 gems.
3000 mastery would be 9,4 gems.

So even if mastery is only worth half the value of intellect in terms of dps (which I highly doubt it is), it will still be better. Otherwise just do as the others say, put up a dot and check.

If you swapped all your resilience gems out for intellect, or get better gear, you can probably indeed start to consider using kings.

My gear wont get much better than it currently is, and intellect is actually really high because of my pve trinket due to the human racial. But building on that train of thought, why are some people gemming intellect then? Surely gemming mastery would be the better dps choice? Looking at some of the pve nerds, they gem mastery over intellect in raids (haste is pref due to mega gem and trinket procs, else mastery)

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#9 pyrellael_3428244

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:26 AM

View PostPersephones, on 19 April 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Derp, don't know why I didn't think of the dummy test, or better yet, simply do a duel with Might and another with Kings against the same guy.



My gear wont get much better than it currently is, and intellect is actually really high because of my pve trinket due to the human racial. But building on that train of thought, why are some people gemming intellect then? Surely gemming mastery would be the better dps choice? Looking at some of the pve nerds, they gem mastery over intellect in raids (haste is pref due to mega gem and trinket procs, else mastery)
I think and don't quote me because i'm no pve hero but mastery is only better than int until a certain amount of mastery but I have no idea and could be completely wrong

#10 DanAction

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 07:00 PM

When I played, we always had our paladin buff might. As a destro lock, 15% more on ember spells is more than you would gain with kings (or at least it feels that way), and not to mention it makes your ember taps larger. I imagine it would be the same for affliction since I'm fairly certain you stack mastery as your off stat in pve (could be wrong, I don't even play affliction anymore, or do pve). Not to mention that mastery is good for my teammates too.

#11 Persephones

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

Yeah I actually went ahead and did some dummy tests, this was as affliction though;

Without buffs:
Corr: 5855
UA: 9367

Kings:
Corr: 6044
UA: 9669

Might:
Corr: 6439
UA: 10301

This was with full gear, resi gems and shadow pan trinket

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#12 Persephones

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 11:50 AM

Speaking of int vs mastery, what's the stand on gems in 5.3? Resi/power gems are being cut in half, so I was thinking of gemming offensive. However I have trouble finding what's best for pve, some sites say int, some say mastery and some say haste (apparently for legendary meta gem/trinket procs) - I'm debating of going full out int vs mastery

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#13 Toitles

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 01:07 PM

I think from what I've been able to piece together of PvE stuff (which isn't much, because if I liked doing calculus I would've had a 4.0), Intellect is better than Mastery, but 2 Mastery is better than 1 Intellect, and thus Mastery gems outweigh Intellect gems.  Unless you play with a shadow priest I don't believe it's feasible to get to the ~12.5% haste plateau, so past the previous plateau (7.15%) you want Mastery over Haste.  If you do have a source of the 5% haste buff it might be worth it to try for 4717 haste unbuffed to get an extra tick of Corruption.

However, Mastery is possibly worth less in PvP than in PvE, because it affects nearly 100% of your damage in PvE (with the exception of Haunt and Malefic Grasp's base damage, though afaik it does increase the Malefic Grasp forced ticks), while in PvP you have a pet instead of Grimoire of Sacrifice, and Haste is valued more since faster casts do more than just increase damage done.

affix said:

The #1 sign that your thread was unnecessary is if the you can copy+paste the thread title in to google, hit 'I'm feeling lucky', and get your answer

#14 Persephones

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 01:18 PM

Yeah you have faster casts, but frankly how much do you cast outside of fears? I guess it'll be different in 5.3, but I barely ever cast dots these days due to drain souling spriest adds or in general pets.

I haven't been running recount etc to check what exactly is causing the most amount of damage, but with the amount of aoe cc, slows roots  etc I'd guess that our pet is doing very little, and because of that mastery would pull ahead?

Gonna download recount/skada for next session of 3s

Edited by Persephones, 19 May 2013 - 01:19 PM.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#15 Toitles

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:19 PM

Mastery probably contributes significantly more than haste, yeah.  I tend to cast a lot, but I rarely queue into shadow priest teams and haven't bothered doing a lot of drain souling of stuff for shards in general, since that's being removed in 5.3 and practicing a skill that's gonna dissapear soon struck me as a waste of time.  Also I miss when we had to cast all the time :(

affix said:

The #1 sign that your thread was unnecessary is if the you can copy+paste the thread title in to google, hit 'I'm feeling lucky', and get your answer




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