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Glyph of Garrote and Glyph of Cheap Shot nerfed


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#21 hid

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:35 PM

Trust me, you will all have way scarier melees to worry about come 5.3, no need whatsoever to try and get rogues nerfed more.

#22 Nadagast

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:48 PM

So, it's okay for Rogues to be quite OP, as long as other melee are as well?  Hmmm...

Edited by Nadagast, 15 April 2013 - 10:48 PM.


#23 hid

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:51 PM

View PostNadagast, on 15 April 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

So, it's okay for Rogues to be quite OP, as long as other melee are as well?  Hmmm...

As I said earlier in the thread I do not believe rogues will be the #1 melee come 5.3, even if they didn't nerf the glyphs. With the glyph nerfs they certainly won't be #1, and most likely not #2 either. They'll be fine, though.

Also, melees aren't the only ones getting buffs. A lot of things are changing in 5.3. And I hope you aren't suggesting that melees > casters now or in 5.3, because that's pretty silly.

Edited by hid, 15 April 2013 - 10:53 PM.


#24 Celaurthor

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:00 PM

They need to put a 2-3 second icd on cloak and dagger and make it so when you have subterfuge you come out of stealth but have stealth bar for 3 seconds.... someone tweet holinka i dont have twitter.

#25 varellz

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:02 PM

these nerfs are good, honestly.
now they just should reduce dance dmg and buff hemo to sanguary vain at least with a glyph and buff hemo/backstab dmg, playstyle like cata just without retarded 2 bombs and retarded dance dmg.

btw. rlly cant understand DMG buffs to other classes like feral/hunter/monk.


btw. my overall solution to fix arena is buff battle fatigue to  80% heal reduce and like 60-70% dmg reduce so health bars go up and down slowly and not like the shit right now  1 global  100-0 and 1-100 with 1 cast, but thats just what would make the game more fun for me.

Edited by varellol, 15 April 2013 - 11:04 PM.


#26 hid

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:10 PM

View Postvarellol, on 15 April 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

these nerfs are good, honestly.
now they just should reduce dance dmg and buff hemo to sanguary vain at least with a glyph and buff hemo/backstab dmg, playstyle like cata just without retarded 2 bombs and retarded dance dmg.

btw. rlly cant understand DMG buffs to other classes like feral/hunter/monk.


btw. my overall solution to fix arena is buff battle fatigue to  80% heal reduce and like 60-70% dmg reduce so health bars go up and down slowly and not like the shit right now  1 global  100-0 and 1-100 with 1 cast, but thats just what would make the game more fun for me.

Yeah, and rets got the highest damage buff any class has ever gotten in the history of the game (flat 15% damage buff on everything), outside of the damage buff ww monks got on the 5.2 PTR, before getting the dmg buff reverted (and turned into a nerf) 1 day before 5.2 going live. Hopefully they aren't done tinkering with changes in 5.3 just yet. :)

#27 hid

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:15 PM

View PostCelaurthor, on 15 April 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

They need to put a 2-3 second icd on cloak and dagger and make it so when you have subterfuge you come out of stealth but have stealth bar for 3 seconds.... someone tweet holinka i dont have twitter.

They made these changes for a reason, rogues were boring as hell to play, they screwed over the rogue playstyle pretty hard in MoP. Yes, those talents are strong, but take them away and rogues once again become the most unreliable and inconsistent class in the game.

If the 2 changes you suggest are implemented no one in their right mind would play with subterfuge or C&D.

#28 Environ

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:20 PM

View PostCelaurthor, on 15 April 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

They need to put a 2-3 second icd on cloak and dagger and make it so when you have subterfuge you come out of stealth but have stealth bar for 3 seconds.... someone tweet holinka i dont have twitter.



If cnd had a 3 sec icd considering subterfuge lasts for exactly 3 sec's i wonder why ever take those 2 talents together ever.
Its cool to call for nerfs surely rogues might need more maybe, but atleast don't say brainless things with 0 knowledge of the class your talking about, what you just said is nearly the same as saying please remove cloak and dagger from the game.

I Could remember quite alot of things id like to see out of the game too and hunters alone have quite a few :) :) :) but i suppose its pointless to say that.

Edited by Environ, 15 April 2013 - 11:22 PM.


#29 hid

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:40 PM

I strongly believe that a lot of the recent rogue hate is actually just people complaining about hunters(thugcleave) + pve trinkets or spriests+rogues, without understanding that the main problem isn't the rogue. (the problem was rogue control + retarded dmg from another class, a problem which they've solved with the CS/garrote glyph nerfs, hell, they might've even went overboard by nerfing both glyphs at the same time)

Holinka has also confirmed that they're nerfing pve trinkets even more https://twitter.com/...922750857150465

Keep in mind that if you take away too much control from a rogue there's absolutely no reason to bring one over any other melee class. (smoke bomb being the only thing the rogue brings in that case, seeing how other classes can do equal or better controlled burst and way more sustained damage.)

Edited by hid, 15 April 2013 - 11:44 PM.


#30 Celaurthor

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:46 PM

View PostEnviron, on 15 April 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

If cnd had a 3 sec icd considering subterfuge lasts for exactly 3 sec's i wonder why ever take those 2 talents together ever.
Its cool to call for nerfs surely rogues might need more maybe, but atleast don't say brainless things with 0 knowledge of the class your talking about, what you just said is nearly the same as saying please remove cloak and dagger from the game.

I Could remember quite alot of things id like to see out of the game too and hunters alone have quite a few :) :) :) but i suppose its pointless to say that.
I actually have a relatively solid knowledge of the class. Just because you cant spam peel cheap shots with your vanish doesnt mean you couldn't still make use of the talents via dance. I'm not saying to put both changes in but both abilities need to be revisited. I 100% agree that a lot of hutner abilities need to be nerfed which is the main reason I quit last season(i hate bm).


Right now rogues are unpeelable for essentially have a dance aswell as being able to peel and entire team solo.

#31 Conviqx

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:53 PM

View PostCelaurthor, on 15 April 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

I actually have a relatively solid knowledge of the class. Just because you cant spam peel cheap shots with your vanish doesnt mean you couldn't still make use of the talents via dance. I'm not saying to put both changes in but both abilities need to be revisited. I 100% agree that a lot of hutner abilities need to be nerfed which is the main reason I quit last season(i hate bm).


Right now rogues are unpeelable for essentially have a dance aswell as being able to peel and entire team solo.

people tend to forget cheap shot and garrote have quite a substantial energy cost. Mages on the other hand can spam peel a whole team with spammable sheep, novas and deeps with no cost at all.
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#32 samuser1234

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:23 AM

View PostConviqx, on 15 April 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

people tend to forget cheap shot and garrote have quite a substantial energy cost. Mages on the other hand can spam peel a whole team with spammable sheep, novas and deeps with no cost at all.

I remember when casters/healers (who arent disc) actually had to worry about mana :/
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#33 Marshmellow

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:26 AM

View Postsamuser1234, on 16 April 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

I remember when casters/healers (who arent disc) actually had to worry about mana :/

I remember when rogues actually had to worry about getting hit in stealth :/
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#34 kazuhmeer

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:27 AM

View PostNadagast, on 15 April 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

So, it's okay for Rogues to be quite OP, as long as other melee are as well?  Hmmm...

its ok these changes mean warrior/lock/druid is 1700 viable now

#35 Nadagast

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:28 AM

View PostConviqx, on 15 April 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

people tend to forget cheap shot and garrote have quite a substantial energy cost. Mages on the other hand can spam peel a whole team with spammable sheep, novas and deeps with no cost at all.

Sheep has a cast time, novas are only a root (which is good, but it's not a silence or a stun, which are far better), and deep is a sizable offensive CD (similar to dance).  They're also all magic, and therefore dispellable.

Cheap Shot and Garrote are both hard CCs (ie the person you apply them to basically can't do anything for the duration), have no cast time, and can't be dispelled.  Rogue CCs are far more powerful and reliable--there's a huge difference.

Edited by Nadagast, 16 April 2013 - 12:29 AM.


#36 Deeklol

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:49 AM

View PostConviqx, on 15 April 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:


Yes cuz casters have to cast, what

some actually do :angry:
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#37 hid

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:53 AM

View PostNadagast, on 16 April 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Sheep has a cast time, novas are only a root (which is good, but it's not a silence or a stun, which are far better), and deep is a sizable offensive CD (similar to dance).  They're also all magic, and therefore dispellable.

Cheap Shot and Garrote are both hard CCs (ie the person you apply them to basically can't do anything for the duration), have no cast time, and can't be dispelled.  Rogue CCs are far more powerful and reliable--there's a huge difference.

Let's not go down this road. Takes a dance or vanish for a rogue to do that peeling, both of which are big CDs, mages can peel without giving up a big defensive or offensive CD, both have their pros and cons.

#38 averuki

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:06 AM

Going for a "RE" is just too strong atm. Promotes teams to turtle the whole game. Every time you get a restealth you can stop the whole opposing team.

#39 Silhin

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:36 AM

View Postaveruki, on 16 April 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

Going for a "RE" is just too strong atm. Promotes teams to turtle the whole game. Every time you get a restealth you can stop the whole opposing team.

Simple don't let the rogue go for a RE its should be somthing worth paying attention too the class is built around stealthing letting them restealth should be somthing BIg not somthing u can just blow off

Its like Now When Somone says iam Deeped they don't act chill and don't worry about it they freak out cuz deep is what the mage class was built around or rather (frozen But unable to do anything )

Edited by Silhin, 16 April 2013 - 01:37 AM.


#40 Conviqx

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:57 AM

theres actually so many ways to keep a rogue from restealthing or atleast delay it for a decent period of time. People these days don't pay attention to the little things anymore. It's all about THE BIG SWIFTY'S MANG

I have had so many times where people just let me restealth in their god damn faces after a clone or whatnot and THEN people whine about subterfuge being OP since the rogue has his "mini shadow dance" every time he restealths. Subterfuge is partially so good because people are all to shit to actually prevent the most basic thing a rogue wants to do, PARTIALLY.
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