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#21 duskfallx

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:40 PM

In my opinoin they should bring back old Soul Link mechanic. It's not like anyone uses it outside of GoSac anyway, what indicates that it's just bad. We're meant to be more tanky than other casters. I don't care for my deffensive CDs at the moment, they're powerful, but the amount of damage we take forces us to use them all at the same time; to some fucked up comps, you die through all of them. (unless you play with a SP/boomkin)

Edited by duskfallx, 15 April 2013 - 10:41 PM.


#22 Thaya

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:43 PM

View Postduskfallx, on 15 April 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

In my opinoin they should bring back old Soul Link mechanic. It's not like anyone uses it outside of GoSac anyway, what indicates that it's just bad. We're meant to be more tanky than other casters. I don't care for my deffensive CDs at the moment, they're powerful, but the amount of damage we take forces us to use them all at the same time; to some fucked up comps, you die through all of them. (unless you play with a SP/boomkin)
Yep, SL is absolutely useless everywhere outside of being used with GoSac specs in PvE for the passive 20% HP.

Which is kinda stupid, that a talent that links your soul with your minion is only useful when you don't have a minion.

The mechanic of HP linking is really bad too. It's too complex, and it's hard to even think of its applications, let alone use it effectively.
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#23 Nadagast

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:43 PM

View PostSkenz, on 15 April 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

You will see next patch with all those melee buffs and b-e + dalaran changes + gateway nerf. They will just sit on you the whole game and you will randomly die at some point.

I don't disagree with you that the melee buffs for next patch are totally out of line.  I wasn't really talking about those (tbh I didn't even think of them when considering warlock defense).

I agree that new ramps will hurt us a lot defensively.

I also agree with the comments about changing Soul Link back to what it was.

Still, do you think Warlocks main problem is defense or offense?  If you had to pick one.

Edited by Nadagast, 15 April 2013 - 10:44 PM.


#24 duskfallx

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:48 PM

View PostNadagast, on 15 April 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Still, do you think Warlocks main problem is defense or offense?  If you had to pick one.
Offense is the main problem, of course, but fixing it would affect PvE big time and since our survivability is poor, they should at least fix that.

#25 Skenz

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:49 PM

View PostNadagast, on 15 April 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

I don't disagree with you that the melee buffs for next patch are totally out of line.  I wasn't really talking about those (tbh I didn't even think of them when considering warlock defense).

I agree that new ramps will hurt us a lot defensively.

I also agree with the comments about changing Soul Link back to what it was.

Still, do you think Warlocks main problem is defense or offense?  If you had to pick one.
Main problem is offense obviously. But i am really scared of melee cleaves next patch i guess we miss our old demon armor.

#26 Nadagast

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:51 PM

I don't necessarily disagree, other than the fact that maybe I think our defenses are a little bit better than you guys do.  But I did not consider the new ramps, melee buffs, and gateway nerf in 5.3.

Edited by Nadagast, 15 April 2013 - 10:51 PM.


#27 Bluckstack

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:08 PM

talking in terms of pvp:

(tested on one of my locks, 488 ilvl, with DI up, to simulate a bit the buffs while playing with shaman) 50% pvp power, 447k hp

before patch: glyph of siphon life heals yourself for 20% of the dmg done by corruption unaffected by the reduction of resilience.

corruption hits doomie for 5585 non crit, in pvp: (5585 + 5585*0,5) =8377.5  

20% of 8377.5 * 0.7 (battle fattigue) = 1172.85 real heal per non crit hit without MS in pvp

with MS: 1172.85 * 0.75 = 879.64 real heal per non crit hit with MS in pvp

after patch: Glyph of Siphon Life has been redesigned. Glyph of Siphon Life now heals the Warlock for 0.5% of their maximum health when Corruption or Immolate deal periodic damage.

447k hp. 0.5% ->2235

in pvp we will have around 65% pvp power after patch, we will get 40% of that pvp power into heal, so we get +26% heal which means:

(2235+2235*0,26)*0,5=1408 real heal per hit without MS in pvp

with MS: 1408 * 0.75 = 1056 real heal per hit with MS in pvp

the change its a buff, but you need to notice that you get more heal with crits on corruption before patch than you will get after, so its not a big deal

Edited by Bluckstack, 15 April 2013 - 11:09 PM.


#28 Salutations

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:20 AM

Quote

Would you mind sharing these ways?  Things that would fix the class in a satisfying way without affecting PvE and/or changing game mechanics.

- bring back old soul link, i feel like warlocks take too much damage without a passive reduction.
- make siphon life baseline and not a glyph.
- put howl on tier 60 talent, blood horror on tier 30 talent.
- increase shard proc rate against player OR make UA give a shard if it's dispelled, no sense to do it on haunt.
- DI undispellable.

very easy to do,doesn't affect pve, fix a lot of things.

Edited by Salutations, 16 April 2013 - 02:22 AM.


#29 Nadagast

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:22 AM

View PostSalutations, on 16 April 2013 - 02:20 AM, said:

- bring back old soul link, i feel like warlocks take too much damage without a passive reduction.
- make siphon life baseline and not a glyph.
- put howl on tier 60 talent, blood horror on tier 30 talent.
- DI undispellable.

doesn't affect pve, fix a lot of things.

I don't agree that these wouldn't affect PvE, although they'd definitely have less of an effect than messing with our damage.

But I think the main problem with Warlocks right now is our damage, not our defense.  While your changes are all things I'd like to see, I don't think they are things that would really fix the fundamental problems we have.


Edit: I'd also note that we basically have ~20% passive damage reduction right now.  Fel Armor gives 10% DR, 10% more HP, and 10% more healing taken, which is basically 20% DR.  It definitely doesn't stack up to when we had +Armor, 20% DR from Soul Link, more health than everyone, better self healing, and +26% healing taken, but it's still ~20% DR.

Edited by Nadagast, 16 April 2013 - 02:24 AM.


#30 Trendz

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:32 AM

Is it not possible to make dots do more dmg to player targets? I'm not saying this is the change i would want to see but would this not work for some type of fix until they figure out what they are going to do with sb:ss ?

#31 Marshmellow

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:48 AM

View PostTrendz, on 16 April 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

Is it not possible to make dots do more dmg to player targets? I'm not saying this is the change i would want to see but would this not work for some type of fix until they figure out what they are going to do with sb:ss ?

This seems possible, seeing as they basically did this but backwards with the mage bomb spells, and when they made it that taste for blood only got one stack on player targets but 5 on pve targets, they could do this for alot of abilities in the game imo
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#32 Limity

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:56 AM

View PostTrendz, on 16 April 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

Is it not possible to make dots do more dmg to player targets? I'm not saying this is the change i would want to see but would this not work for some type of fix until they figure out what they are going to do with sb:ss ?

They really dislike doing changes that way so I doubt you will see that happen, although it would be nice

#33 Braindance

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:03 AM

Well, what is the difference between pvp and pve? Gear.

What if they included a flat 20% more damage on all damage, but dots swapped with SS:SW do 50% less damage as a pvp 4 set bonus? Easy to code, doesn't effect pve (no1 would take 496 ilvl items with just 10ilvls you get ~ 20% more dmg+the nerfed SS:SW) and everyone would be happy.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#34 Mitoo

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:49 AM

Damage boost of DOTs as PVP set bonus. Last change, on twitter, it didnt get in patch notes.

Does not say how much.

#35 Persephones

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:00 AM

Suggesting that a UA dispell should reward us with a shard is complete bollocks as long as SS:SW exists, you might as well make dots nondispellable with that train of thought. But getting a free shard when Haunt is dispelled is an okay change when you decide to go "ham". They buffed the health of the gateway too, it's gonna last a little longer now and it might be possible to punish players that just faceroll tunnel it whenever it's up.

Can't wait to see what they'll do to our set bonus.

Edit: The had to do something to the gateway, the fact that you could instantly teleport the entire team from one side of an arena to another when the enemy team used offensive cds was kinda dumb.

Edited by Persephones, 16 April 2013 - 09:04 AM.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#36 Dakkrothy

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:09 AM

i would love to see howl of terror and coil on two different tiers

#37 saffie

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:58 AM

We have been talking on this subforum since the release of MoP what needs to be done to fix warlocks, I think most of us agree with the howl/coil thing, the pressure being low etc. We'll just have to wait and see but if they really cared about warlocks they wouldnt have called us "decent" at the end of last season and fix nothing in 5.2, whatever they do in 5.3 will not be big enough to make enough impact to the class because they think we are doing better than we actually are.

#38 Persephones

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:50 AM

Demo was very much "decent" last season tho, chaos waves were critting for ridic amounts of damage which was why we were viable. Even right now demo is still pretty okay with touch spam in mls. I don't think they ever mentioned that affli was alright though.

A lot of people on these forums are suggesting changes that are completely unrealistic though, you're only seeing the problem through your eyes. If it was as easy as you make it out to be, then why wouldn't they have done it to please their customers?

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#39 Tya

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:29 PM

View PostBluckstack, on 15 April 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

talking in terms of pvp:

(tested on one of my locks, 488 ilvl, with DI up, to simulate a bit the buffs while playing with shaman) 50% pvp power, 447k hp

before patch: glyph of siphon life heals yourself for 20% of the dmg done by corruption unaffected by the reduction of resilience.

corruption hits doomie for 5585 non crit, in pvp: (5585 + 5585*0,5) =8377.5  

20% of 8377.5 * 0.7 (battle fattigue) = 1172.85 real heal per non crit hit without MS in pvp

with MS: 1172.85 * 0.75 = 879.64 real heal per non crit hit with MS in pvp

after patch: Glyph of Siphon Life has been redesigned. Glyph of Siphon Life now heals the Warlock for 0.5% of their maximum health when Corruption or Immolate deal periodic damage.

447k hp. 0.5% ->2235

in pvp we will have around 65% pvp power after patch, we will get 40% of that pvp power into heal, so we get +26% heal which means:

(2235+2235*0,26)*0,5=1408 real heal per hit without MS in pvp

with MS: 1408 * 0.75 = 1056 real heal per hit with MS in pvp

the change its a buff, but you need to notice that you get more heal with crits on corruption before patch than you will get after, so its not a big deal

So factor in crit rate;

Pre 5.3
(880*1.12) = 986

Post 5.3
1056 per tick


So, you'll get (on average, including crits) 986 life per tick this patch, and 1056 life per tick next patch.

An increase of 7%.

Kinda odd.
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#40 Demonicsoul4

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:43 PM

View PostMitoo, on 16 April 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Damage boost of DOTs as PVP set bonus. Last change, on twitter, it didnt get in patch notes.

Does not say how much.

where did you see it? give link




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