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[Rogue] RBG wtf? -- EU EU EU


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#1 Koxylol

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:22 AM

So i was playing rbg with like 2.2-2.3k exped guys and they said im a noob/retard/insertrandomstuffhere because 'I didn't cc enough'.

So what happened actually:
It was wsg we played with mostly casters (wow u dont say) so I use my CC sub spec what is this.

I was playing like If i could go in steath i just cheapshotted/garroted 4 ppl (depending on DRs), or shd and just cheapshot/garrote trinket most of the time, gouged chaosbolts + some other stuff.

The thing is i wont overextend. this means: if i have perma feint up with recup and im not above 70-80% hp i wont go to harass a healer since i dont wanna die like rogues do usually.

wtf should i do? they expect me to cc the whole game but its like im getting instantly focused if i try to do anything outside vanish/subter buff or shd. Im not in an rbg to die and spend the 75% of the game at the graveyard.

so tbh i dont know wtf should i do, they were 2.2-2.3k exped i guess they're better than me since i dont even have 2.1k exp but what they say looks unlogical and totally impossible
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#2 WildeHilde

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:40 AM

You can use Deadly Throw to land interrupts outside of Subterfuge. In non-carrier bgs you also can use Smoke Bomb as raid wide shield wall during grip/vortext/beam. I usually go in with Subterfuge and move out again.

If you get focussed all the time you can also use Shadowstep and step back to your team but C&D is usually better for ccing ,multiple healers.

Usually I try to get restealths constantly and use Deadly Throw to annoy on range. Also interested what rogues with higher rating than me do in RBGs.

#3 Koxylol

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:22 AM

I tried deadly throw it was better to take nerve strike just to reduce treir damage for the time. It feels like deadly throw is there for arena but not for rbg.

I use smoke bomb as you say depending on the situation. I also try to save it on FC maps maybe we need it defensively.

Tried shadowstep but then i can't do decent cc because most players(including me) sometimes have a totally retarded type of server lag when you try to attack something like kidney or garrote, and you exactly stand on the enemy who is not moving, and it says out of range and 1-2 seconds after the just moves away. I'm talking about ~30 ms, also with the amount of slows in game i would hardly cc 3 targets with subter instead of 4.

about res:

It's totally random. If we face a decent enemy, i have to go to the back totally and I can hardly call for a dispell since we're fighting against a decent enemy. Against a bad team i can even restealth inside their team but if i can do it we dont really need it tbh...
It just feels wierd so yeah.

Overall thx for your reply maybe im gonna try it with shs but im still a bit confused what should i change or what to do :/
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#4 ardnut

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:16 AM

I wouldn't save smoke bomb defensively.  If used correctly on me (FC) it's guaranteed to get at least my Trinket HC leap and shield wall... sometimes it just out right kills me.
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#5 WildeHilde

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:29 AM

It's situational. If your carrier dies if you don't bomb you should use it but preferable is of course to kill their carrier with the bomb, Bomb can also be really effective for early waterwork caps.

A high-risk tactic is the glyph of Smoke Bomb. Due to the delay the rogue is only interruptable during in melee as the bomb lasts through the whole tap. I use that in rare occassions in EotS but I think too many players know about it now.

#6 Ciarzx

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:49 AM

well a lot of the time as a rogue you should just be harassing healers/efcs, going for as many restealths as you can, in kotmogu you need to be vocal about which orbs are being returned, and communicate efc positions on flagmaps. On gilneas and ab you should be keeping tabs on the other teams rogue/mage/boomkin to alert your team about inc ninjas and also be ready to break off and call for a mage/druid to help you ninja or force efc cooldowns, you should rarely be midfighting unless your team gets wiped. I only really go offensive if I have a vanish and or cloak up because yes, you wont get dispelled if youre sitting at the back harassing healers. The rest of the time I normally just try my best to peel for our healers and that's it really. If your team is raging at you then they probably just dont know what they are doing.
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#7 Unseenz

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:06 PM

Rogues are a lot better in teamfights than most of you guys give yourselves credit for, nerve strike is an amazing tool to lock down an entire line of casters, neilyo mode cheapshot everything is pretty much a 10 second cc on everyone, makes deadly throw pr much useless in rbgs.
Usually use my subterfuge for stuns, and dances for bursting down healers unless my team is wiping (then stun/silence everything). since 90% of teamfights nowadays is gorefiends grasp solar beam your biggest priority in assisting this is stunning the enemy paladin at the same time as the beam to prevent an aura mastery, this usually instantly forces a trinket -> am or bubble.
I don't think glyph of smoke bomb is ever worth it since no one really sits outside the range and lets the bomb ride out, almost everyone that defends has some sort of ranged ability to stop caps.
On fc maps, its not always the best idea to spend the entire game on the enemy fc (unless going for a quick cap) but when your team is falling behind i find it useful to break off and get on the efc in order to make the other teams healers drop back, and let off some pressure. Just remember, part of the reason rogues are good on fc maps is that rogues counter guardian druids. I cannot stress this enough- good guardian fcs know to use track humanoids and generally never come within thirty yards of anyone, stealth allows you to get the jump on them. in addition when a guardian is stunned with no barkskin they can't do anything, and guardians with no mobility (your job is to hinder their mobility) are sitting ducks. Make sure you dont smoke bomb during defensive cooldowns (wall, cocoon, pain suppression, spirit shell) unless you're sure to land a kill- one of my biggest pet peeves is when i see someone bomb on a flag carrier with wall up, or when im holding my bobm for after wall and i see the retard warlocks on my team toss in five chaos bolts. If your team wants/needs to make a flag push, and the efc is not in grip range, the first step is you opening on the flag carrier, make sure you have a cloak or vanish if this gets sticky, but basically this will make the other team collapse on their fc, making it extremely easy for your team to get in range to attack him/grip him in.
Temple, rogues are good at running around and killing high stack carriers by themselves, but they also have a lot of defensives that can be used while holding orbs unlike other classes like hunters, which makes them decent carriers as long as you have good situational awareness (when to pop everything on someone and collect +10, and when to sprint behind a pillar)
Mines, one of the only maps where i ever use defensive smoke bombs, good way to shut down a beam, or you can just bomb a healer and 100-0 it in a few seconds, always zerg healers on this map when youre not spam stunning warlocks, theres nowhere to hide and no LOS so you play a big part in dropping the other team before yours dies. ALWAYS try to jack carts, people are really stupid and stand on the wrong side which makes sapx3 + blind an easy cap, if your team is not going to get lava or top cart flip them upwards before they reach the side and make sure the other team doesnt flip it back, a longer travel time to the north cap = slower points for the other team.
Eots, pretty similar to teamfighting on mines, no LOS. try to hit people in the back because if your healers have a good position they should still be able to heal you, and this will make it easy for your casters to snipe the other teams overextended dps. Eots is a pretty easy map to get ninja caps on, because a lot of the bases are narrow and it's easy to find stealth at bases like mage tower and blood elf (usually pretty close to the flag due to retarded design), another strategy i utilize a lot on this bg is stand on a flag while a dk grips the defender downstairs fifty times and you cap it easily.
AB I suggest going to the LM fight, theres usually only two healers there and rogues have billions of ways to stop two healers from doing their job, as well as keeping up nerve strike on the dps.
On node maps it's a good idea to pressure bases by yourself because although rogues DO have good utility in teamfights, they are much more effective in 1v1 scenarios especially with two sets of cooldowns. If youre going for ninjas, ALWAYS keep track of the other teams floaters, if you are absolutely relying on getting a ninja off and not just banking on drawing people off of the teamfight, and you see an enemy floater, get someone to slow them down. If your team tells you to defend a base and you dont want to just lie and say your trinkets down.

Thats all i got for now, let me know if you have any other questions

Edited by Unseenz, 09 April 2013 - 12:47 PM.


#8 Koxylol

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:58 PM

Well thx guys for the help. Most of the hints are logical and i've been using them but I'm gonna try to restealth more if possible :/

I'm starting to think what most of the fails come from the random groups since no1 really wants a rogue for rbg on a fix stop with 2.1k exp. Literally everything logical and should happen but most of the time somehow it happens in a totally different way O.o
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