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#81 joaq

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:51 PM

View PostDU5KNOIR, on 11 April 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

i'm not sure if you actually know what you're talking about or anything but just because hackers are targeting it doesn't mean they're going to find anything.  the linux kernel is used on millions or billions of servers and other devices and yet, it's not getting hacked like java is, because it isn't coded like shit.

the fact is that popularity and security are in no way correlated.  java is shit software and skype is shit software.  there's software that is more and less popular than those two programs that are better coded.

linux is shit software then, you dont have a clue how many hacked websites running on linux we've found during the years. still, those exploit windows users thru them not linux users. if you dedicate enough brainpower and money ( because theres tons of money to be had, call it an investment ) you can find holes in everything. but if you dont believe read eugene: http://eugene.kaspersky.com/
theres a reason products like kaspersky detect most WOW hack tools used to steal ur accounts. wow is a popular product and theres tons of money to be stolen.

the software is not hacked because its better coded, it isnt hacked because it is not worth the time and effort for a well resourced hacker crew to hack it because so few people use it, thus limiting the lucrativeness of their work. if a product becomes popular enough there will always be demand for hacks and that demand will be satisfied usually pretty soon

#82 Regent

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 11 April 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Back in TBC/Wrath time it was called lag.
And what the fuck you trying to justify Skypes IP leaks for? I shouldn't have to protect myself with tunneling/vpn/proxies and whatnot to play a videogame with couple of my friends over the internet?

People ddos'ed back then, you just didn't hear about it because it wasn't wide enough spread.

I never said I was justifying skype, but simply saying that fixing the common problem won't save you from a determined person.

#83 Pretalethal

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:34 PM

Moojerk, did you find anyone from a different region and if there was any lag? I haven't ran into anything so far.

#84 DU5KNOIR

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:59 PM

View Postjoaq, on 11 April 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

linux is shit software then, you dont have a clue how many hacked websites running on linux we've found during the years. still, those exploit windows users thru them not linux users. if you dedicate enough brainpower and money ( because theres tons of money to be had, call it an investment ) you can find holes in everything. but if you dont believe read eugene: http://eugene.kaspersky.com/
theres a reason products like kaspersky detect most WOW hack tools used to steal ur accounts. wow is a popular product and theres tons of money to be stolen.
the software is not hacked because its better coded, it isnt hacked because it is not worth the time and effort for a well resourced hacker crew to hack it because so few people use it, thus limiting the lucrativeness of their work. if a product becomes popular enough there will always be demand for hacks and that demand will be satisfied usually pretty soon

i'm not even sure how people can be so dogmatic with regards to computer software that they'll look at contrary evidence and ignore it just to preserve their opinion of it, going so far as to make outrageous and unsubstantiated claims like "linux is shit software."

the argument that people don't care doesn't matter or make sense because there is more than enough money (or other gains) in linux to merit its exploitation; and yet, you've never, not once in your life, seen it exploited.

otoh, how many days has it been since java was exploited?  the funny part is that the site must not be updated often, because a zero day java exploit caused somebody to lose several thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins today.

View Postspaceship, on 11 April 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

Yeah, because it'd be a quality post for sure if there wasn't any financial incentive... :rolleyes:

didn't i just say there was no correlation?  i think you misunderstood me
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#85 Crawthz

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:11 PM

View PostRegent, on 11 April 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

People ddos'ed back then, you just didn't hear about it because it wasn't wide enough spread.

I never said I was justifying skype, but simply saying that fixing the common problem won't save you from a determined person.

Would make it way harder and probably would stop 99% of WoW related DDoS aswell.

View PostDU5KNOIR, on 11 April 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

otoh, how many days has it been since java was exploited?  the funny part is that the site must not be updated often, because a zero day java exploit caused somebody to lose several thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins today.

That was just regular phishing site, not a 0-day.
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#86 Nightmonkey

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 05:01 AM

There's a reason you don't hear about Linux or Mac exploits, because nobody gives a shit.  There's also a reason why Linux and Mac aren't as popular as Windows - because they are a pain in the ass to use.  I'm sure I could spend 5 minutes and find some random news story or statistic about Linux and Mac faults that will show they are not the flawless operating systems you seem to fanatically believe they are.

Even if you can get past having to get used to the completely different style of OS, you'll still have to deal with the 10,000 pound gorilla in the room - software compatibility.  You've already come in here complaining about it yourself.  You have to be a masochist, a hipster, or a person with a very specific reason to want to use Linux or Mac.

In my opinion it's kind of a good thing that Microsoft has a near monopoly of the market, because that means the people that don't fit into the description of masochist or hipster don't have to worry about the compatibility problems and we still get an excellent piece of software that in nearly every case will do everything a Linux or Mac machine can do.  But don't take my word for it, just take a look at the number of Windows machines in the world and compare it to the other options.  It's also a lot easier for developers to only have to worry about compatibility for one operating system instead of 3.

#87 Thaya

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 05:49 AM

View PostNightmonkey, on 12 April 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

There's a reason you don't hear about Linux or Mac exploits, because nobody gives a shit.  There's also a reason why Linux and Mac aren't as popular as Windows - because they are a pain in the ass to use.  I'm sure I could spend 5 minutes and find some random news story or statistic about Linux and Mac faults that will show they are not the flawless operating systems you seem to fanatically believe they are.

Even if you can get past having to get used to the completely different style of OS, you'll still have to deal with the 10,000 pound gorilla in the room - software compatibility.  You've already come in here complaining about it yourself.  You have to be a masochist, a hipster, or a person with a very specific reason to want to use Linux or Mac.

In my opinion it's kind of a good thing that Microsoft has a near monopoly of the market, because that means the people that don't fit into the description of masochist or hipster don't have to worry about the compatibility problems and we still get an excellent piece of software that in nearly every case will do everything a Linux or Mac machine can do.  But don't take my word for it, just take a look at the number of Windows machines in the world and compare it to the other options.  It's also a lot easier for developers to only have to worry about compatibility for one operating system instead of 3.
1) You don't hear about them even if you do give a shit.
2) MacOS is actually the most comfortable and easy to use OS. And I'm not even biased - the PC I use most of the day isn't a Mac, and I've used Windows for like 10 years more than I've used Mac. I'll literally never buy a Windows laptop because you can't even really use Windows without a mouse, whereas the MBP touchpad is so comfortable you don't even need one. [Obviously, I don't game on my laptop. Gaming = Windows, always. And this is completely subjective and nothing more than my personal opinion.]
3) I don't recall a single post saying that any software is flawless in this whole thread, but so many posts arguing against that.
4) I do agree that *nix systems (other than MacOS obv) are not good for anything but servers, where they are the absolute majority.

This whole discussion is dumb. I can't believe anybody defends Skype, which are too lazy to even handle contact requests server side, and Java, which has always been the laughing stock of security.

Edited by Thaya, 13 April 2013 - 02:37 AM.

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#88 Regent

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:31 AM

View PostNightmonkey, on 12 April 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

Even if you can get past having to get used to the completely different style of OS, you'll still have to deal with the 10,000 pound gorilla in the room - software compatibility.  You've already come in here complaining about it yourself.  You have to be a masochist, a hipster, or a person with a very specific reason to want to use Linux or Mac.

Programming languages could evolve. Java was made to work on all 3 OS http://en.wikipedia....mming_language)

#89 joaq

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:14 AM

View PostThaya, on 12 April 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

1) You don't hear about them even if you do give a shit.

there are exploits for both and world is full of infected linux servers running botnets http://www.itworld.c...t-linux-botnet. < that's just one discovery btw..
http://blog.unmaskpa...ie-web-servers/

yea i used to research malware and botnet shit for a living for years, and still hang around with guys who do it so im up to date

if mac would become the prominent OS you could be surprised on how many hacks would surface, especially considering apple's policies on security..  http://news.cnet.com...to-mac-threats/
http://news.cnet.com...hind-microsoft/

since no1 in the malware-creating industry gives a shit about mac or linux u dont hear about it. the money is on windows and will be for quite a while

#90 Woundman

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:34 AM

Dusknoir is either trolling (which has been pretty successful so far LOL), or he simply can't grasp the concept of "backing a product", if you understand what I mean.

Anyways, just gonna quote Thaya. This whole discussion is nonsense. I can't believe anybody defends Skype, which are too lazy to even handle contact requests server side, and Java, which has always been the laughing stock of security.

I see no harm in Hotted posting a potential Skype alternative for gamers. If anything, it's beneficial for the community because DDOS'ing is a problem. Preventing a DDOS is very simple for a home-user, unfortunately a lot of people don't know how to prevent it. The more "anti-ddos" VOIP programs, the better. One of them will get it somewhat right eventually. :)

Edit: Typo

Edited by Woundman, 12 April 2013 - 08:35 AM.


#91 DU5KNOIR

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:20 PM

View PostNightmonkey, on 12 April 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

There's a reason you don't hear about Linux or Mac exploits, because nobody gives a shit.  There's also a reason why Linux and Mac aren't as popular as Windows - because they are a pain in the ass to use.  I'm sure I could spend 5 minutes and find some random news story or statistic about Linux and Mac faults that will show they are not the flawless operating systems you seem to fanatically believe they are.

Even if you can get past having to get used to the completely different style of OS, you'll still have to deal with the 10,000 pound gorilla in the room - software compatibility.  You've already come in here complaining about it yourself.  You have to be a masochist, a hipster, or a person with a very specific reason to want to use Linux or Mac.

In my opinion it's kind of a good thing that Microsoft has a near monopoly of the market, because that means the people that don't fit into the description of masochist or hipster don't have to worry about the compatibility problems and we still get an excellent piece of software that in nearly every case will do everything a Linux or Mac machine can do.  But don't take my word for it, just take a look at the number of Windows machines in the world and compare it to the other options.  It's also a lot easier for developers to only have to worry about compatibility for one operating system instead of 3.

i think you're mistaking linux desktop distributions for the linux kernel- i'm only referring to the second.  the kernel is the core of several operating systems, including the majority of servers, the majority of phones, and an increasing amount of desktops.  there are way more than enough people using it to justify attacking it, and yet the linux kernel isn't being exploited.

regarding building software for it, that's another story.  linux and mac gamers are the minority, but windows 8 has increased the amount of people playing on other operating systems enough that they should be considered.  there's a reason valve is putting all of their weight behind them.

there are two arguments going on here -- java and skype being shitty, which i compared to the linux kernel; and it being disappointing that people still make windows-only software -- don't mix up the two.

View PostWoundman, on 12 April 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Dusknoir is either trolling (which has been pretty successful so far LOL), or he simply can't grasp the concept of "backing a product", if you understand what I mean.

I see no harm in Hotted posting a potential Skype alternative for gamers. If anything, it's beneficial for the community because DDOS'ing is a problem. Preventing a DDOS is very simple for a home-user, unfortunately a lot of people don't know how to prevent it. The more "anti-ddos" VOIP programs, the better. One of them will get it somewhat right eventually. :)

Edit: Typo

i'm sure you don't see the issue -- you're pretty much the pioneer of sponsored shitposts
is he still a fly guy clappin' if nobody ain't hear it

#92 Pawzz

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

View PostDU5KNOIR, on 12 April 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

i think you're mistaking linux desktop distributions for the linux kernel- i'm only referring to the second.  the kernel is the core of several operating systems, including the majority of servers, the majority of phones, and an increasing amount of desktops.  there are way more than enough people using it to justify attacking it, and yet the linux kernel isn't being exploited.

regarding building software for it, that's another story.  linux and mac gamers are the minority, but windows 8 has increased the amount of people playing on other operating systems enough that they should be considered.  there's a reason valve is putting all of their weight behind them.

there are two arguments going on here -- java and skype being shitty, which i compared to the linux kernel; and it being disappointing that people still make windows-only software -- don't mix up the two.



i'm sure you don't see the issue -- you're pretty much the pioneer of sponsored shitposts
Why are you so mad? PvP community needs a skype with hidden IP, Hotted posts one and you go apeshit on him.
If your daddys/friends/sponsors company comes up with a better programm youre allowed to post it here aswell.

I find it great that Razer is trying to help the gaming community.

#93 Woundman

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:56 PM

For those TLDR people: Dusknoir dislikes Razer, Microsoft (Windows & Skype), Java, stupidity (poor coding), advertisements, free enterprise, DDOS'ing, World of Warcraft, sponsors and companies who only make Windows only software because it's the majority.

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#94 Braindance

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:10 PM

In this thread, everyone is a programming and a commercial genius.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#95 moojerk

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostPretalethal, on 11 April 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

Moojerk, did you find anyone from a different region and if there was any lag? I haven't ran into anything so far.
I have not yet had anyone else add me from another region, so I haven't been able to do more testing to see what cloud servers it uses, if it adjusts on the fly as people are added, etc.

Again if anyone wants to help me test, please add MOOJERK on razer comms.

In fact, one thing, might be a bug.  I uninstalled and reinstalled the software, and lost the 2 people I had added on my contact list.

Edited by moojerk, 12 April 2013 - 04:21 PM.


#96 Nightmonkey

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:18 PM

View PostThaya, on 12 April 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

1) You don't hear about them even if you do give a shit.
2) MacOS is actually the most comfortable and easy to use OS. And I'm not even biased - the PC I use most of the day isn't a Mac, and I've used Windows for like 10 years more than I've used Mac. I'll literally never buy a Windows laptop because you can't even really use Windows without a mouse, whereas the MBP touchpad is so comfortable you don't even need one. [Obviously, I don't game on my laptop. Gaming = Windows, always.]
3) I don't recall a single post saying that any software is flawless in this whole thread, but so many posts arguing against that.
4) I do agree that *nix systems (other than MacOS obv) are not good for anything but servers, where they are the absolute majority.

This whole discussion is dumb. I can't believe anybody defends Skype, which are too lazy to even handle contact requests server side, and Java, which has always been the laughing stock of security.

1)  Not true.  Check out the links Raxxiel posted.  You don't have to look far to find news about Mac/Linux exploits or security holes.
2)  That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but you shouldn't present it as fact.
3)  I was exaggerating in order to irritate the obvious Mac/Linux fanboy.

I'm not defending skype or java.  I don't know shit about java.  I haven't used a Linux or Mac machine for probably 10 years, but that doesn't change the fact that they are worthless for gaming.  My whole post was pretty much aimed at the guy that is crying about software compatibility and how any company that doesn't tailor to his minority is a pile of shit.

And on topic, frankly I'm tired of looking for a skype solution.  If people are going to drop skype in large numbers, there is going to have to be more than just an occasional DDOS attack on a minority of people who play against scumbags.  That minority will find their own solutions through proxy, vpn, or different software.

The problem is that there won't be very many people using this, at least not for a long time.  That's the unfortunate truth.  It's too much of a pain in the ass to get somebody to download a new program every time you play with somebody new.  I'm not against this software, but I'm tired of being the guinea pig trying to spread the word and get people to use something only to find out that it sucks.

#97 Theles

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:22 PM

View PostBraindance, on 12 April 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

In this thread, everyone is a programming and a commercial genius.

Just like you tried

#98 djp771133

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:28 PM

No one will use this because it would require everyone to switch off skype.  Not going to make everyone I play with download this.

#99 Braindance

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:39 PM

View PostTheles, on 12 April 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

Just like you tried
With the major difference that I do programming for a living so I am not trying, I am informing.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#100 Necrolina

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:40 PM

This thread makes about twice as much sense if you only read Thaya's posts.

Edited by Necrolina, 12 April 2013 - 06:40 PM.





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