Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Holy paladin changes id want


  • Please log in to reply
176 replies to this topic

#21 Smokestomp

Smokestomp
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 107
  • Talents: Elemental
  • RBG: 2359

Posted 07 April 2013 - 10:16 PM

View PostZhand1, on 07 April 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

I like these ideas. For me, I would like to see Aura Mastery on a shorter CD, seeing how Shamans have a 1 minute Aura Mastery, I would like anywhere between 1-2 minute CD on our Aura Mastery and have it break silences, because it sucks when you Aura just a fraction of a second too late and you're blanketed...Also, I would like something done with Hand of Sacrifice, maybe on a shorter CD, 1 minute to 1 minute 30 seconds? Because it just get's spell stolen or dispelled off most of the time anyway. I rarely use Divine Plea, but maybe just remove the 50% Healing Reduction penalty from that. Besides that, I like the ideas you've come up with.

Shaman aura mastery is a 2 minute CD, dispellable, and our 4 piece PVP resto set-bonus, plus you can pop yours in a solar beam! Wouldnt really compare them.

Thinking Sacrifice on shorter cooldown shorter duration would be a nice skill change. Probably something done in the Clemency tier since nobody ever considers anything else.

#22 latturalol

latturalol
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 143
  • Talents: Holy 1/1/0/1/0/1
  • 2v2: 2621
  • 3v3: 3008

Posted 07 April 2013 - 10:19 PM

View PostSmokestomp, on 07 April 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Shaman aura mastery is a 2 minute CD, dispellable, and our 4 piece PVP resto set-bonus, plus you can pop yours in a solar beam! Wouldnt really compare them.

Thinking Sacrifice on shorter cooldown shorter duration would be a nice skill change. Probably something done in the Clemency tier since nobody ever considers anything else.

shaman aura mastery is overkill if it wasn't dispellable i might get hate for this but you got grounding, tremor, spirit link, earth shield offensive shock, healing tide, the list goes on

#23 Bamflol

Bamflol
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Bleeding Hollow
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 273
  • Talents: Holy 2/1/1/2/0/0
  • RBG: 2493
  • LocationCanada

Posted 07 April 2013 - 10:48 PM

i actually totally forgot but can't we use HoP while stunned? I havn't qued as holy for awhile but that could be a start to surviving against any deep. But other than that, DP being used like PS would be awesome (useable while stunned). Also making sac deal more damage or fix cc's so that they dont need to have like 50% of our health drop to break (fear...) would be pretty cool, rather than saccing someone and sitting full cc while taking sac damage+dot damage.

#24 Zhand1

Zhand1
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 50
  • Talents: Holy 0/1/1/2/0/0
  • RBG: 2504

Posted 07 April 2013 - 11:20 PM

View PostSmokestomp, on 07 April 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Shaman aura mastery is a 2 minute CD, dispellable, and our 4 piece PVP resto set-bonus, plus you can pop yours in a solar beam! Wouldnt really compare them.

Thinking Sacrifice on shorter cooldown shorter duration would be a nice skill change. Probably something done in the Clemency tier since nobody ever considers anything else.

My bad Smokestomp, thought I heard it was 1 minute CD, I apologize. I do like the Shaman Aura Mastery though, cast while moving is pretty nice. I agree with Blessed, you have some very nice totems. I think it would just be nice to have some changes to our hand spells in general. As it has been stated, Hand of Purity is nearly worthless. There should be some kind of change or just take HoP out of talents and make it a passive Paladin spell and work it in with Clemency or something like that.

#25 Guest_Talbadar_*

Guest_Talbadar_*

Posted 07 April 2013 - 11:25 PM

The game needs less things usable while stunned/silenced for healers, not more. I think Paladins need buffs, but being able to DP while stunned or Devotion Aura out of silence is just another stale type of gameplay similar to Tremor Totem. There is no reaction of prediction to something happening. You got stunned, therefore you press DP. You got silenced, therefore you press Devotion Aura.

Paladins have always suffered from being crowd controlled, especially chains of CC. IMO Paladins could use 15% less duration on Fear and Polymorph effects. They are the strongest healer when not controlled, but the weakest while controlled. I think them dying to Mages/Rogues/Spriests is an issue, but not one that can be easily solved without making them invincible against other classes.

#26 Justwoo

Justwoo
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 503
  • Talents: Discipline 2/2/1/1/2/2

Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:28 AM

i think like adding a glyph or some shit so they can dp while stunned would be fine, as long as they increase the cooldown a little bit
Posted Image

#27

  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 384

Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:05 AM

There should be less abilities like barkskin and dispersion that can be used while youre stunned. You should be rewarded for preemptively walling the swap and punished for not seeing it coming. It is pretty cool right now how I can pre 40% wall a god comp swap and die in the deepfreeze.

Blind was too good being instant, and a 0.5 second cast is still basically instant, but it would be cool to add some kind of mechanic to it that reduces the cast time after you've been stunned/silenced, so that it can used defensively.

Aura mastery cd should be reduced a bit, the priest one is like 45 seconds isn't it? I disagree with it being able to break silences though.

MS on divine plea is retardedly outdated and should simply be removed

Make hand of purity baseline and replace it with something that does what totem restoration does for hand spells. If theyre purged their cd's are reduced. Making our hand spells entirely undispellable would be too good.

Buff our reactive healing a little bit, a hot ticking for 6k doesnt really cut it.

While I know it would op, I would give up anything to be able to freedom out of stuns again, would solve most of our problems.

Getting Seal/Judgement og blood back would be cool too, one of the few skillful things paladins could ever do was use it to stop cc

Truthfully though I dont think paladins are bad at all, the classes that counter us are all just too good right now. Every single team has a priest on it, and rogues/mages are everywhere. nerf rogue stunlock, nerf mage burst, let those priest nerfs goes go live and paladins are fine.

Edited by Radejjj, 08 April 2013 - 01:49 AM.


#28

  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 384

Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:17 AM

It doesn't feel like CC is the problem for paladins right now, we've always been extremely susceptible to it, hunter cc obviously needs a nerf though, and warlocks fearing around corners is absurdly annoying, but in general cc hasn't been an issue this season, it's just surviving. A lot of teams don't even bother swapping anymore, they just tunnel the holy paladin start to finish. Anything with a rogue, spriest, or mage can do that and do it really effectivelly. RPS, thug, rmp, any mage wizard, they all just tunnel you and eventually you just die with nothing you can do.

Edited by Radejjj, 08 April 2013 - 01:17 AM.


#29 Mbgz

Mbgz
  • Junkies
  • Worgenclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 62
  • Talents: Restoration 1/0/2/1/1/2
  • RBG: 2097

Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:25 AM

View Postlatturalol, on 07 April 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

shaman aura mastery is overkill if it wasn't dispellable i might get hate for this but you got grounding, tremor, spirit link, earth shield offensive shock, healing tide, the list goes on
you can make that list as long as you want. but none of these spells can be used if your trinket is on cd :) vs good teams.

#30 Korzul

Korzul
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • EU-Doomhammer
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 374
  • Talents: Restoration 0/2/0/1/1/0
  • 2v2: 2315
  • 3v3: 2744
  • 5v5: 480
  • RBG: 1151

Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:27 AM

Quote

The game needs less things usable while stunned/silenced for healers, not more.

Just no. There's too much instant cc, it's too easilly applied and the burst is too high. The only way to counter it is defenses and cc breakers right now and they sure as hell aren't going to completely revamp the cc issue at this point of the expansion.

Also why should healers get the shaft? Sitting 50 yards behind people, dying in a single swap without instant peels or offheals or finally losing after "predicting" that instant cc x times in a row because the "y"th time the opposition weren't stupid enough to throw that instant cc into sac/grounding/or let it get deathed etc?

Also where do you draw the line? Do we remove blink/disperse/block etc? They can all be used whilst silenced or stunned, we don't want double standards here.

"You got shockwaved and see reck, you disperse or block"
"You get cheap shot and see shadowblades.. you disperse or block"

I guess that makes disperse and block stale, I mean it's just reacting and not predicting right?

Quote

You got stunned, therefore you press DP

I'd change it to be usable whilst stunned, and even go so far to make it break certain cc effects such as fear and poly but raise it to a 2 min cooldown. Use it as a 2nd cc break and you've opened yourself up to a switch etc.



In a game where you can drop things in a single cheap shot or deep with a blanket on the healer, where comps can bring 4+ different dr's categories, most of them able to be applied multiple times in a short time frame and all of them only requiring ONE instant cc to start the chain. I'd say the easiest way to make healers balanced is actually give them some extra tools that let them play their character.

#31 latturalol

latturalol
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 143
  • Talents: Holy 1/1/0/1/0/1
  • 2v2: 2621
  • 3v3: 3008

Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:30 AM

View PostRadejjj, on 08 April 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:


Blind was too good being instant, and a 0.5 second cast is still basically instant, but it would be cool to add some kind of mechanic to it that reduces the cast time after you've been stunned/silenced, so that it can used defensively.


that's the best change for hpal blind imo

#32 Pritchard

Pritchard
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 617
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/0/0

Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:39 AM

I didn't really read through the rest of the thread after the first post,  but I do have some thoughts.

I think the new blind is fine as holy, its really easy to chain it off of other cc's if you are going offensive, and the instant blind was completely broken.

I wish they would get rid of the talent to lower the CD on bubble and lay on hands, and replace it with a talent that would make freedom, sac, and bop undispellable.

This would finally give us an alternative to clemency, but clemency would still be a really good choice against a lot of teams too.  Double bop, and even double freedom just as root breaks are really good.

I don't think things being usable while stunned is good game design, instead i would just rather have more protection against cc, and once damage gets toned down(if ever), hopefully getting solo'd in a deep blanket won't be a problem.

I also wouldn't mind a little less randomness, it feels like sometimes the RNG gods love me, and i get DP proc after proc after proc, and then other times i'll get like one a game and have really shitty heals during burst because of it.  So I wouldn't mind seeing the other talents in that tree get some minor benefits to make them a little more attractive, because holy avenger is imo REALLY good for burst healing, but the RNG of DP is hard to give up sometimes.  Maybe make holy avenger increase your mastery so that shields go up faster and bigger?  Maybe add a mana regen mechanic to sanc wrath (+1000 spirit?  whatever reasonable number).


Those are just some changes I would like to see, as right now, the talents, glyphs, and everything are pretty boring tbh.


Also, I kinda wish eternal flame was either undispellable, or that offensive dispel was nerfed really hard.  Outside of RBG its almost pointless to go eternal flame spec because your hot will just be dispelled instantly.  But if it's allowed to tick, its a pretty good heal, especially with keeping up mastery shield.

#33 Doomed the Dog

Doomed the Dog
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Drak'thul
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 329
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2292
  • LocationCzech Republic

Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:38 AM

from my pov i need only 1 thing = undispellable sacrifice


edit: maybe make divine purpose baseline for holy (jk they cant cuz of pve) and replace it with a new spell at talent tree.

Edited by Doomed the Dog, 08 April 2013 - 02:42 AM.

Posted Image

#34 moelol

moelol
  • Lilbthebased
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 52
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/2/2/2/0
  • RBG: 384

Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:54 AM

my favorite thing is when u pre wall a god comp swap, but still end up having to bubble xD it happens way too often..


honestly i agree with all those changes but i think dp useable while stunned is a little too much. dp being physical and magical is really good idea.

a lot of the time when i see a hunter wabbling to me and i throw a sac just when hes in rage as he scatters, he ends up dispelling it anyways before the scatter breaks..or even better, scatter breaks as he dispels it jk focus pet stun into trap...


sac has to be undispellable or at least half the cooldown and half the duration to compensate, but that might be too good vs teams that cant purge.


i just hate how there are other healers whoa re more viable than u are, and losing to mirror with a rsham or disc preist is painful. like i run jungle cleave and face equal skill mirror with a disc priest we are supposed to lose. play god comp as hpal and face mirror with rsham loooool good luck winning.

#35 Regent

Regent
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1659
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/0/2/0/0/1
  • 2v2: 2273
  • 3v3: 2634
  • 5v5: 2359
  • RBG: 2126

Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:55 AM

Bubble is kind of holding Paladins back from becoming actual healers. If Paladins could heal as good as other classes they would be OP because of bubble, but when 2 classes trivialize bubble...

Paladins are just remnants of the old WoW design style. Everyone other healer brings more to the table in ways of variety. Paladins would easily be the worst healing class if there weren't hunters/dks to carry them.

Also, there is something wrong when the PLATE healer is the easiest for melee to kill.

#36 Pradafiend

Pradafiend
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1169
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/0/1/2/1
  • 2v2: 1904

Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:03 AM

buff shamans

shout out to ymcmb

#37 diglett23

diglett23
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Area 52
  • Retaliation
  • Posts: 327
  • Talents: Holy 0/1/1/2/0/1
  • RBG: 2212

Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:13 AM

View PostTalbadar, on 07 April 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

The game needs less things usable while stunned/silenced for healers, not more. I think Paladins need buffs, but being able to DP while stunned or Devotion Aura out of silence is just another stale type of gameplay similar to Tremor Totem. There is no reaction of prediction to something happening. You got stunned, therefore you press DP. You got silenced, therefore you press Devotion Aura.

Paladins have always suffered from being crowd controlled, especially chains of CC. IMO Paladins could use 15% less duration on Fear and Polymorph effects. They are the strongest healer when not controlled, but the weakest while controlled. I think them dying to Mages/Rogues/Spriests is an issue, but not one that can be easily solved without making them invincible against other classes.

I agree with Talb, making DP and Aura Mastery breaking you out of CC take skill away from the class and the game. I think making Fear/Poly reduced would be a great change and maybe buffing our Sacred Shield to absorbing some more damage would be a good start. I hope they do make some changes for 5.3, I feel so weak atm :(

#38 Regent

Regent
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1659
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/0/2/0/0/1
  • 2v2: 2273
  • 3v3: 2634
  • 5v5: 2359
  • RBG: 2126

Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:20 AM

View Postdiglett23, on 08 April 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

I agree with Talb, making DP and Aura Mastery breaking you out of CC take skill away from the class and the game. I think making Fear/Poly reduced would be a great change and maybe buffing our Sacred Shield to absorbing some more damage would be a good start. I hope they do make some changes for 5.3, I feel so weak atm :(

I don't feel "weak", I feel not as good. There is a difference between the two.

#39 Persephones

Persephones
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Argent Dawn
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 342
  • Talents: Affliction 0/0/1/2/0/1
  • RBG: 2123
  • LocationDenmark

Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:46 AM

Despite Paladins being extremely weak outside of anything but rush-down comps, as Talb said, this game needs a lot less free "get out of jail cards". Once upon a time arena played around getting the enemy to trinket stuff, especially the healer, so you could go for the kill with a CC chain. These days there are so much shit you have to go through. I really don't know what they can do to Paladins, I guess DP being usable during stuns is a neat "band-aid fix" for the current expansion, since they can't do major changes half way through one, but in the future they really need to trim some of the fat.

View PostBraindance, on 22 June 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The current season is at a very good spot balance-wise. There is a comp variety that hasn't been seen in the game since s8.

#40 Nmplol

Nmplol
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 498
  • Talents: Retribution 1/0/0/2/0/0
  • RBG: 959

Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:50 AM

I went ret, not saying i was good at holy but lets be honest ret is more fun atm




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<