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#161 Quitsx

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:32 AM

View PostRadejjj, on 21 April 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:



They could make a lot of small changes too that would be extremely helpful. One of the suggestions I saw in this thread is a glyph to make repentance remove dots.

Talked to Holinka, not happening

#162 Ruybe

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 10:48 AM

They won't change Sacred Shield of Eternal Flame. Think its too powerful in PvE at the moment , so maybe addressing our issue via glyphs might help in some way.

Maybe making Glyph of Blessed Life baseline , and changing our 4 set piece in some way.

There were a lot of good posts previous, maybe adding something from that into that that 4 set piece. But buffing SS or EF i don't see it coming this expansion.

#163 Nightmonkey

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:41 PM

View PostRuybe, on 30 April 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

They won't change Sacred Shield of Eternal Flame. Think its too powerful in PvE at the moment , so maybe addressing our issue via glyphs might help in some way.

Maybe making Glyph of Blessed Life baseline , and changing our 4 set piece in some way.

There were a lot of good posts previous, maybe adding something from that into that that 4 set piece. But buffing SS or EF i don't see it coming this expansion.

They just have to be careful about how they buff these abilities so that they're only increasing the effectiveness in PvP.  Personally I thought a Glyph or Set bonus to reduce the duration but increase the healing of EF sounded really good.  Problem is that Holinka said they don't make Glyphs for talents.

Another area I thought would be interesting to adjust is the lvl 90 talents.  Holy Prism is really good but I absolutely hate that it breaks CC.   Light's Hammer is beyond worthless in PvP but I think it has a good enough niche in PvE to not mess with it.  

Execution Sentence is a really nice talent in theory but in practice the cooldown is just too long compared to Prism, and the nail in the coffin is that it can be dispelled offensively and defensively.  If they would reduce the cooldown for Holy, or make it so the CD is only 20-30 seconds if you use it as a heal, as well as making it undispellable as a heal, I think it could be a viable alternative.

I had my mage friend do his usual opener on me in a duel but I put up Execution Sentence as the duel started and I survived easily without casting anything else.  The final heal didn't even crit and I was still fine.  Once he found out he could spellsteal it, he just removed it before he used deep freeze and we were back to the usual mage sodomy.

I think we have the right tools, they just need to be adjusted and tuned a little bit more to get us back into a competitive spot with other healers.  Right now I really believe that Disc Priests will be the new healing overlords in 5.3 since Shaman won't have the SPriest ace in the hole anymore to save them from getting trained into the dirt.

#164 Cyanne

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:46 PM

There is a very simple way to help with EF w/o impacting pve too much,
Just make a glyph / set bonus / gloves bonus etc that increases the hot healing by like 3-400% but makes it single target only.

#165 Absolutely

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:13 PM

Since Holy paladins are dying in stuns mainly to mages (lets be honest now, we have no way to mitigate damage except bubble or BoP which is only good for physical stuns every minute while stunned); why not change it so unbreakable spirit also remove stuns upon casting hand of freedom? Seems like a good trade; 1 sac, 1 freedom, 1 hop for stun dispels like it did in S5.
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#166 Quitsx

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:24 AM

ive been thinking about passive dmg reduction, would be real nice

#167 Nightmonkey

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:41 AM

It looks like they're not happy with EF in PvE, so we can expect a change (read: nerf) to it in the future, most likely in addition to the Mastery nerf.

https://twitter.com/...959047611498496

"Mastery was too strong regardless, but longer-term we don't want EF to be the only choice for Holy."
Really?  Because it sucks a whole lot of dick in PvP.  What about Resto Shaman mastery?  Perfectly balanced maybe even weak right?

"Eternal Flame has like 90%+ use for Holy. That means they effectively lose a talent choice. If some used SS then it would be fine.
Seems like some people still use it in PvP but myself personally I do not think SS is as good as EF against almost any team these days. I interpret this Tweet to read "EF is going to get nerfed so that some will try SS in desperation." If they buff SS instead of nerf EF, I will be a very happy Paladin.

"Eternal Flame is the problem. It lets Holy become a Resto druid and a Disc priest."

Yeah the fuck right, I wish. If I was anything like a Resto druid or Disc priest, people wouldn't die the second I get CC'd once. I'd have some decent CC and a chance to survive against a Mage.

I realize that everybody in this discussion on Twitter has completely ignored the fact that PvP is a thing, and that this is a PvE oriented discussion.  This is really disheartening stuff to read,  Holy Paladins that PvP are being left out in the cold because Holy is too good in PvE.

Edited by Nightmonkey, 02 May 2013 - 11:45 AM.


#168 Bamflol

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:29 PM

View PostNightmonkey, on 30 April 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Execution Sentence is a really nice talent in theory but in practice the cooldown is just too long compared to Prism, and the nail in the coffin is that it can be dispelled offensively and defensively.  If they would reduce the cooldown for Holy, or make it so the CD is only 20-30 seconds if you use it as a heal, as well as making it undispellable as a heal, I think it could be a viable alternative.


I used this in s12 against some kfcs when it wasn't dispellable. Basically worked as a second Sac in theory, pop it on someone when you're about to get trapped and it was able to keep them alive (ticked up to 10-25ks and landed for 120k+ at the time) so I could sit the incoming cc, or if I knew I was about to get swapped on. I enjoyed the ability then, but a shorter cooldown (i don't mean much, like 15 seconds even) would be awesome + make it undispellable again. Because lets be honest, every holy pally and their mother uses lights hammer in pve, so this wouldnt make them more op in pve.

#169 Nightmonkey

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 05:02 AM

View PostBamflol, on 02 May 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

I used this in s12 against some kfcs when it wasn't dispellable. Basically worked as a second Sac in theory, pop it on someone when you're about to get trapped and it was able to keep them alive (ticked up to 10-25ks and landed for 120k+ at the time) so I could sit the incoming cc, or if I knew I was about to get swapped on. I enjoyed the ability then, but a shorter cooldown (i don't mean much, like 15 seconds even) would be awesome + make it undispellable again. Because lets be honest, every holy pally and their mother uses lights hammer in pve, so this wouldnt make them more op in pve.

It still does a ton of healing, it's just that the 20s CD on Holy Prism is way too good in comparison.  I shouldn't say that because they'd probably rather nerf Prism instead of buff Execution Sentence.  When healers still benefitted from offensive PvP Power, Execution Sentence was actually doing really strong damage, now it just sucks all around.

Maybe they could leave it able to be dispelled but if it gets dispelled make it work like lifebloom and the final heal goes off instantly.  It really needs a cooldown reduction to be viable for Holy PvP though.  20-30 seconds if you use it to heal and 1 minute if you use it for damage seems fair to me.  I think Light's Hammer would still be better for PvE because Paladins haven't been niche tank healers since WotLK, so losing a strong AoE heal for a strong single target doesn't seem like the direction most would go.

I'd rather see them do something like this in addition to a sacred shield buff instead of just allowing you to break silences or use DP while stunned/silenced.  Think of it as proactive mitigation instead of reactive.  You would be rewarded for predicting a switch or CC on yourself by getting ES or SS up on somebody before it happened, and potentially punished if you didn't.  Allowing you to use an ability after you've already gotten CC'd seems less rewarding for skillful play, but as I've said before - that genie is out of the bottle already for almost every other class.  It doesn't seem fair to allow everyone else to have something like that, but deny it to Paladins just because they don't want to continue down that road.

#170 Pradafiend

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:40 AM

View PostRegent, on 23 April 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

I recently leveled my shaman, grabbed a 1500 mage/spriest and got 2k in one night.

congrats :)

#171 Reeceofcx

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:28 AM

The reason holy paladin is so bad is because the pvp devs listen to everyone's opinion. This includes 700 mmr players that rage at how a paladin can just bubble their burst and they can never kill them in the 2v2 bracket. :l
The first step is asking for blizzard to listen to 2500+ players or something, not everyone.

#172 Gsgsgsgsgs

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:19 AM

Just run double healer dk, try and get a rbg hero dk; they do the most damage.

Shoutout to Materialgurl

Edited by Gsgsgsgsgs, 07 May 2013 - 10:20 AM.


#173 Leyania

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:28 PM

Just quit this game as holypaladin and you'll be happy :) it's always the same, good in the first season of an expansion and just horrible for the rest of the seasons :<
every 2k rshaman can replace a 2.6k holypaladin.. that's really sad

#174 Mirionx

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:54 PM

https://twitter.com/...614478772858881

Lookin gd

#175 diglett23

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:57 PM

View PostMirionx, on 20 May 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:


This with the Aura Mastery change will be good for survival, and I think it will help a decent amount. I still think the main problem of our class is getting cced and having nothing rolling on targets except for eternal flame which ticks for 8k and is dispellable. TBH, holy pallies need something along the lines of healing stream totem, I am not sure how they can do this without making pve retarded but I feel we need some sort of passive healing.

#176 Mirionx

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:02 PM

View Postdiglett23, on 20 May 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

This with the Aura Mastery change will be good for survival, and I think it will help a decent amount. I still think the main problem of our class is getting cced and having nothing rolling on targets except for eternal flame which ticks for 8k and is dispellable. TBH, holy pallies need something along the lines of healing stream totem, I am not sure how they can do this without making pve retarded but I feel we need some sort of passive healing.

Wont happen in MoP. I think this will be enough for us to be better against casters and not just die instantly as soon as they look at us, I think we'll be very strong together with ele shams with this buff.

#177 vacantt

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:05 PM

View Postdiglett23, on 20 May 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

This with the Aura Mastery change will be good for survival, and I think it will help a decent amount. I still think the main problem of our class is getting cced and having nothing rolling on targets except for eternal flame which ticks for 8k and is dispellable. TBH, holy pallies need something along the lines of healing stream totem, I am not sure how they can do this without making pve retarded but I feel we need some sort of passive healing.

read my mind.  i sit in endless cc chains with nothing but eternal flame ticking and i end up either barely saving my team who's at 5% or they die and i mercilessly punch my monitor




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