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#141 Mirionx

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:50 AM

View PostQuitsx, on 19 April 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

replace dog shit glyph of blinding light w/a  new glyph of repentance, removing dots on rep

But that wouldn't fix any of the current paladin issues.

#142 latturalol

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:37 PM

Logged in played a couple games on paladin today realized why i don't play it anymore logged off.

#143 Bamflol

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:34 PM

View Postmoelol, on 17 April 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

i think people need to stop crying and actually play their class seriously. so far the only comps i feel im most successful with is jungle cleave, kfc (lol), and phd.
havn't you been queing in the 2k bracket for past week as kfc? Your sentence is awkward, as it basically just said "Im most successful with KFC, which ive capped @ 2k with".

#144 Wetworks

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:02 PM

* Divine protection usable in stun or make it glyphable to do so and reduce all damage taken by 40% 3min cd - You can still die thru this and unless youre looking to predict a swap you wont get it off in time.

* Revert blind change or make it a 0.5 cast - This was such an amazing cd for a paladin defensively when being trained....Blizzard says it was too strong for holy paladins (last season) but KFC sounds like the real problem, hunter cc, hunter burst, warrior burst, and warrior stuns.

* Make sacred shield a real shield.. - Speccing into this currently is a joke. Getting torch is miles better, you get more absorb from torch with mastery (even though mastery is a joke) add to that the nerf coming to mastery in patch.

* Make freedom/sac undispelable or a cooldown to make them undispelable during that spells duration (Include BoP in there)- It's still a big joke these abilities arent equip with some type of dispell protection. Paladins at one point were suppose to be THE defensive healer lol... monks in less an a month got life cocoon from being dispellable to undispellable. Paladins are still waiting for some dispell protection it's pretty depressing.

These are the base changes that need to be done to paladin I feel that will make the difference we are looking for.

Edited by Wetworks, 20 April 2013 - 07:04 PM.


#145 melignent

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 09:21 PM

so apparently were not getting any help in 5.3 from what i read out of zilea/holinka's twitter convo. thats great were just fu*ked this season cant find any teams due to how "bad" we are.

#146 Welgard

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:36 PM

Well herro there Melignent!  But yeah, paladins are in a pretty bad spot right now, even if casters and rogues get nerfed eventually.  There needs to be some kind of temporary band-aid fix until they can overhaul the whole system.

#147 latturalol

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:50 AM

Best tip reroll

#148

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 03:02 AM

Everyone wants cc breaks, to make divine protection usable while stunned, or undispellable Hand spells, I think these are all the wrong ways to go.

We have always had an issue with cc, avoiding it is simply a lrn2play/position issue, though some classes need their cc nerfed, rather than our ability to avoid/break it buffed.
There should be less abilities usable while stunned, not more, it encourages bad gameplay.
With the amount of offensive dispels, our buffs need some kind of protection, but completely undispellable would be too good. Either undispellable for x seconds, or some type of totemic restoration esq mechanic, where if they are dispelled the cooldown is reduced.

I feel like our biggest problem is our complete lack of any kind of reactive healing. When a druid or shaman gets cc'd, it doesnt mean the game is over because hots keep ticking. Healing stream alone ticks for 27k, as a paladin we have basically nothing. Whether we're eating cc and our partners are dying or we're being tunneled with stuns/silences, our healing drops to zero. Sacred shield needs a buff, and eternal flame should just be a hot you press, rather then attached to WoG, equal to rejuv/renew, and be made baseline.

They could make a lot of small changes too that would be extremely helpful. One of the suggestions I saw in this thread is a glyph to make repentance remove dots.
Reduce the cast time on blinding light by 50/100% each time you're stunned, so it can actually be used defensively.
Longer range on rebuke maybe?
Remove the 50% healing reduction from divine plea.
make judgement do something for holy
Aura mastery down to 2 minutes
Allow all healers to decurse

Edited by Radejjj, 21 April 2013 - 03:05 AM.


#149 Nightmonkey

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:18 PM

View PostRadejjj, on 21 April 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

Everyone wants cc breaks, to make divine protection usable while stunned, or undispellable Hand spells, I think these are all the wrong ways to go.

We have always had an issue with cc, avoiding it is simply a lrn2play/position issue, though some classes need their cc nerfed, rather than our ability to avoid/break it buffed.
There should be less abilities usable while stunned, not more, it encourages bad gameplay.
With the amount of offensive dispels, our buffs need some kind of protection, but completely undispellable would be too good. Either undispellable for x seconds, or some type of totemic restoration esq mechanic, where if they are dispelled the cooldown is reduced.

I feel like our biggest problem is our complete lack of any kind of reactive healing. When a druid or shaman gets cc'd, it doesnt mean the game is over because hots keep ticking. Healing stream alone ticks for 27k, as a paladin we have basically nothing. Whether we're eating cc and our partners are dying or we're being tunneled with stuns/silences, our healing drops to zero. Sacred shield needs a buff, and eternal flame should just be a hot you press, rather then attached to WoG, equal to rejuv/renew, and be made baseline.

They could make a lot of small changes too that would be extremely helpful. One of the suggestions I saw in this thread is a glyph to make repentance remove dots.
Reduce the cast time on blinding light by 50/100% each time you're stunned, so it can actually be used defensively.
Longer range on rebuke maybe?
Remove the 50% healing reduction from divine plea.
make judgement do something for holy
Aura mastery down to 2 minutes
Allow all healers to decurse

I agree that a big problem with Paladins is their lack of healing through CC. I also think turning Eternal Flame into a baseline hot separate from WoG actually sounds pretty interesting.

What I don't agree is that you can avoid every single CC people try and throw at you.  It just isn't possible.  You need line of sight on your team mates to heal them, your teammates need line of sight on the enemies to kill them, there will inevitably be some overlap where you are exposed.

Eventually what this boils down to is that as a healer you will get CC'd.  As a Paladin you have fewer tools to deal with this than other healers do, either by getting out of the CC, healing while you are CC'd, or even keeping yourself alive while stunned/silenced.  That's really the bottom line.

I don't think we'll see the 50% healing reduction come off of plea because it has some PvE implication as well as interaction with a glyph.

Maybe they could bring back Judgments of the Pure but instead of providing a haste buff, have it provide spell pushback immunity.  What the hell happened to pushback immunity for healers anyways?  It's really obnoxious to try and cast what would normally be a 0.8 or 0.9 second cast divine light only to have it get pushed back twice.  This is made even worse if it's a rogue or DK that pushes your spell back with mind numbing or necrotic on.

Just some of my random thoughts.  Personally I think Paladins are in a pretty poor spot, and I think it's absolutely ridiculous that they are being nerfed in 5.3 without any additional PvP focused changes.

Edited by Nightmonkey, 22 April 2013 - 09:05 AM.


#150 Aoedin

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:57 PM

View Postlatturalol, on 20 April 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Logged in played a couple games on paladin today realized why i don't play it anymore logged off.

I'm leveling my druid that I haven't touched since 2007. Also have a shaman at 85 from Cataclysm. What are you leveling?

#151 moelol

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 05:19 PM

View PostRadejjj, on 21 April 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

Everyone wants cc breaks, to make divine protection usable while stunned, or undispellable Hand spells, I think these are all the wrong ways to go.

We have always had an issue with cc, avoiding it is simply a lrn2play/position issue, though some classes need their cc nerfed, rather than our ability to avoid/break it buffed.
There should be less abilities usable while stunned, not more, it encourages bad gameplay.
With the amount of offensive dispels, our buffs need some kind of protection, but completely undispellable would be too good. Either undispellable for x seconds, or some type of totemic restoration esq mechanic, where if they are dispelled the cooldown is reduced.

I feel like our biggest problem is our complete lack of any kind of reactive healing. When a druid or shaman gets cc'd, it doesnt mean the game is over because hots keep ticking. Healing stream alone ticks for 27k, as a paladin we have basically nothing. Whether we're eating cc and our partners are dying or we're being tunneled with stuns/silences, our healing drops to zero. Sacred shield needs a buff, and eternal flame should just be a hot you press, rather then attached to WoG, equal to rejuv/renew, and be made baseline.

They could make a lot of small changes too that would be extremely helpful. One of the suggestions I saw in this thread is a glyph to make repentance remove dots.
Reduce the cast time on blinding light by 50/100% each time you're stunned, so it can actually be used defensively.
Longer range on rebuke maybe?
Remove the 50% healing reduction from divine plea.
make judgement do something for holy
Aura mastery down to 2 minutes
Allow all healers to decurse
this. +repd.

#152 Vlada

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:05 PM

https://twitter.com/...950661903450117

#153 Mirionx

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:09 PM

I couldn't believe him when he said paladins were to strong when they had 2 good comps last patch yet priests & shamans aren't to strong now that they work in almost every comp >.<

#154 Nightmonkey

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:18 AM

Holinka on twitter 4 hours ago, on holy paladins: "no big plans."

https://twitter.com/...104815497269248

He says the changes to other classes should be enough.  I think some of the changes will certainly help, but not nearly enough.

#155 latturalol

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:58 AM

View PostAoedin, on 21 April 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

I'm leveling my druid that I haven't touched since 2007. Also have a shaman at 85 from Cataclysm. What are you leveling?

priest tbh but in other news the am change could help

#156 Regent

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:47 AM

View PostAoedin, on 21 April 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

I'm leveling my druid that I haven't touched since 2007. Also have a shaman at 85 from Cataclysm. What are you leveling?

I recently leveled my shaman, grabbed a 1500 mage/spriest and got 2k in one night.

Shamans do almost everything better, maybe minus getting trained by interrupt heavy classes.

#157 Mirionx

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:21 PM

PTR is looking promising for us, holy shock with MS up heals for 39k, WoG for 60k crits.

Posted Image

Edited by Mirionx, 27 April 2013 - 10:22 PM.


#158 vacantt

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 07:51 PM

getting 100-0'd in less than 1.5 sec in a deep and getting frost bolted for 95k through dp by random 2k mages really enhances my arena experience

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 09:19 PM

;d

Sorry, your post must be at least 2 word(s) long.



#160 pyrellael_3428244

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 10:45 PM

Maybe this post someone will look at...

So lets see here without making this class really stupid. Here are two things that I think would be a good start.

1) Unbreakable spirit:  The talent should be baseline for all paladins and replaced with something else.
This talent is actually good it's just not worth taking over Clemancy. It can be a real life saver, 2.5 min cd on bubble actually saved me on my paladin against a Shatterplay

2) Sacred Shield: It's doesn't absorb enough to be worth taking (IMO) over  Eternal Flame. EF ticks every 2 seconds or so for ~6k and applies your mastery... SS ticks every 6 seconds and absorbs like 24k at best... that's like a warriors melee swing.

This needs to be baseline for all paladins imo
OR
It needs a serious buff such as increasing flash of lights crit chance or giving it the old HoT mechanic that it had in wrath. Fuck i'd even settle for it being like the Sacred Sheild in Cata that rets only had BUT something needs to change with it.

People might disagree with me but I'll presume they don't see the issue with the class. I don't think DP useable while stunned will do anything considering I die through it anyway.

So what is the "issue" you might ask that I've mentioned. The problem with paladins is that you get CC'd a lot
Now this wouldn't  be as much of an issue if we had things to help our partners when cc'd and since we don't we have to bubble as a trinket as easily it would be a lot less frustrating to play the class because once we bubble we get swapped and die very easily.
These are my thoughts on this entire thing I'm not saying my ideas perfect but it's something that actually addresses the issue with the class as a whole.




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