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Atmosphere's Holy Paladin Guide (5.2)


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#1 Nightmonkey

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:41 AM

Holy Paladin Guide (5.4)

The guides that are currently stickied to the top of this Forum are more of a history lesson than anything else.  I thought it would be a good idea to post an up to date one. If this guide looks familiar, it's because I used the same format that Vanguards used for his Ret guide.  I found Vanguards' guide very helpful and well laid out, so hopefully he doesn't mind.

What changed about Holy in 5.4 for PvP?

Holy got a few buffs in 5.4.  Overall none of it is drastically game changing.

Divine Plea no longer reduces your healing by 50%.  Bout time.
Illuminated Healing (mastery) no longer procs from hots.  Minor nerf to Eternal Flame.
Guardian of Ancient Kings has a lower cooldown and copies your healing onto your target.
Holy Insight now increases Eternal Flame and Word of Glory by 50% (up from 25%)
Holy Shock's mana cost reduced by 50%
Judgment mana cost up to 12% from 5% of base mana



PvP Talents

Posted Image

The highlighted talents are the most commonly used talents for Holy Paladins.  This is not a definitive selection of talents as they all have their different uses.

Level 15:

Speed of Light: the best choice in my opinion.  This talent provides a burst of speed that is not on the GCD and can be used while silenced.  This means that you can always use it exactly when you need it.

As Holy you won't always have the GCDs to spare to get a sprint through Long Arm of the Law when you really need it.  Pursuit of Justice is nice as well but in my experience it won't save your life or help you get into range to land HoJ like Speed of Light will.

Level 30:

Fist of Justice, Repentance, Evil is a Point of View

I've lumped all of these into one category because they are all viable.  The biggest thing you need to consider when you choose one of these is what CC's your team currently has, and which of them share a DR with your talent choice.

Ideally you want to choose a talent that does not share a DR with your team's main sources of CC.  For example, if you are playing with a Warlock you probably shouldn't use EPV.  Repentance is questionable too because it breaks on damage, and Warlocks like to dot things up.  In this case Fist of Justice would probably be best.

This is the train of thought that you should go through each time you play a different comp.



Level 45:


Eternal Flame: This is the one to get.

Sacred Shield: Even with the changes to Sacred Shield in 5.4, I typically do not use it.  This is a complete flip flop from what I used to have in this guide.  I used to think it was great until I started using Eternal Flame more often, now I never want to use anything but Eternal Flame.  I can't really think of a situation where Sacred Shield would be preferable to Eternal Flame.

I do not recommend Selfless Healer to Holy Paladins.  This is because of all of the spread damage going around, the increase to Judgment's mana cost, and the fact that you need to spend 3 GCD's before this talent really kicks in.  Any good Warrior will use Thunderclap to spread Deep Wounds, and that damage alone will eventually put you behind in healing without Eternal Flame.

Level 60:

Clemency: the preferred choice most all of the time for me.  This talent allows you to give freedom to your team mates, yet still have 1 charge available to you in case you get switched to.  It also allows you two get out of jail free cards against CC that breaks on damage through Hand of Sacrifice.  Also with 2 charges on Hand of Protection you should almost never find yourself coming up short on immunities for yourself or your team mates.

Unbreakable Spirit:  The change to this ability puts it on par with Clemency.  This is the talent to use if you are having trouble with wizards, or you are simply getting trained a lot.  This is something you will benefit from changing on a game by game basis depending on what will help the most.

Hand of Purity: also a viable choice, though not one I typically recommend.  It is a highly specialized talent that is only really useful against teams with more than one DoT class.  The 10% damage reduction that they added to it in 5.2 doesn't even begin to make up for all the utility you lose from not using Clemency.  This is a talent you will only use against certain teams, but in those specific situations it can really shine.



Level 75:

Divine Purpose: a really strong and random talent.  Sometimes it will proc exactly when you need it, sometimes it won't.  It can completely turn games around if it procs back to back when somebody is low, which seems to happen frequently because of its high proc chance.

Holy Avenger: also a very strong talent, but it is not random.  This talent is for somebody who does not like RNG and would prefer on demand burst healing with a cooldown.  I typically choose this talent for RBG's and sometimes for 5v5.  This talent gives you another button to press when things really start getting wild.

I have experimented with Sanctified Wrath in the past, but I do not feel like it is as strong as the other two.  I think Holy Avenger provides better controlled burst healing, and Divine Purpose will probably do more for you over the course of a match.

Level 90:

Holy Prism: the only real choice for PvP.  The cooldown on the other two talents is far too long for them to really be viable.  Be careful not to use it on a friendly target if they are standing near an enemy player that is CC'd by something that breaks on damage (Freezing Trap, Polymorph, etc) because the Prism will break them out of it.  Try and make an effort to use this on an enemy player whenever you can because it actually does a ton of spread healing.  This is especially important/useful in RBG's.

Light's Hammer might be useful since 5.2 added a snare to it, so it works like a 14 second AOE snare.  If you feel like you don't need the superior healing from Holy Prism you might find this useful as a kiting tool.  Execution Sentence used to be a cool talent until they changed PvP Power to not benefit healer damage.  The new dispel protection on it makes it more attractive, but I still would not recommend it.

Glyphs

Prime Glpyhs:
Beacon of Light (highly recommended) - I always use this glyph.  It is amazing.
Flash of Light (highly recommended) - Gives a nice little boost to your next heal after flash.
Divine Protection - Use this as your third against any double physical damage team.
Glyph of Devotion Aura - If you are not playing with wizards, this is a strong choice



Gems / Enchants / Stats

Priorities for Stats:
This is an area of a lot of discussion and debate for Holy Paladins.  I would actually like some input here, but I will try to present several options as best I can.

Intellect and Spirit are your two main stats.  You want both of these stats on most of your gear.  Paladins don't really have mana troubles these days.  They do have troubles with getting chain CC'd though, so you want whatever few heals you can get out in between CC's to be strong.

Mastery and Crit are the two secondary stats that tend to attract the most controversy.  After experimenting with a Mastery setup and a Crit setup, I think Crit is probably superior.  The sheer number of procs you get from Holy Shock really starts to feel mandatory in today's arena environment.

I feel like Haste deserves a mention as well because Paladins have a fair amount of abilities that benefit from it.  Sacred Shield, Repentance, Blinding Light, and every casted heal all benefit from Haste.

At the end of the day, whatever feels best to you is what you should do.  After personally trying full mastery, full haste, and full crit, my personal opinion is that crit seems to be the best.

PvP Power and Resilience:

Blizzard turned PvP Power and Resil on it's head.  The gems have been severely nerfed and your base PvP Power and Resil will mostly come from your PvP gear.  Your weapon and trinkets are your most important pieces for these stats, use the PvP pieces in these slots.

Recommended Gems:
Meta - 432 Spirit / +3% Critical Effect or your personal preference
Red - 160 Intellect
Yellow - 80 Intellect / 160 Crit (or Mastery)
Blue - 80 Intellect / 160 Spirit

Recommended Enchants:
Shoulders - 200 Intellect / 100 Crit
Back - 180 Intellect
Chest - 200 Resilience
Wrist - 180 Intellect
Hands - 170 Mastery
Legs - 285 Intellect / 165 Spirit
Feet - 140 Mastery / Run Speed
Weapon - Jade Spirit
Off Hand - 165 Intellect

Recommended Reforging:
This is where the personal preference and a lot of debate comes in.  I used to prefer to reforge out of Haste/Crit into Mastery.  Now I do the opposite and reforge into crit.  I reforge into Spirit wherever I can, though I think it's just one ring and your weapon where this is possible.  It's hard to go wrong really.

Viable Holy Comps
Once again I think Holy Paladins are kind of in a rough spot this season.  I don't think they're the worst but they're definitely not the best either.

To be honest I haven't played very much this patch, but it looks like your best option will be to make friends with a good Warrior if you haven't by now.  Once you have that taken care of, add in just about anything else and you have something that has potential to get to high ratings.

Some of the most notable Paladin comps in no particular order:

Warrior/Feral/Paladin
Warrior/Hunter/Paladin
Warrior/Enhancement/Paladin
Warrior/Mage/Paladin
Warrior/Warlock/Paladin
Paladin/Hunter/DK
Warrior/DK/Paladin


General Arena Tips for Holy Paladins
Make sure to keep rebuffing Might/Kings as long as your team is above 85%.  In 5.3 the mana cost came down on these buffs significantly, so this is even easier to do now.

Prioritize dispels on your most supportive classes. When your team is going offensive make sure to dispel CC that is "full" to maximize uptime for your mongoloid team mate.

Also just be really vocal with team mates when you don't have trinket or bubble, letting them know the other team is about to swap onto you before they do could really change the outcome of their swap.

Macros
I don't use a ton of macros, but I find the ones I use to be absolutely essential.  I'll put a couple here, maybe someone will find them useful.

Mouseover Cleanse & Self Cleanse
#showtooltip Cleanse
/cast [target=mouseover, exists] [help] [target=player] Cleanse

#showtooltip Cleanse
/cast [target=Player] Cleanse

My personal Preference is to use a Mouseover macro for cleansing.  You hover over somebody's raid frame, name plate, or character and then use this macro.  I didn't like how it behaved when I tried to self cast it, so I made another macro and bound it to ALT + my cleanse binding.  You can replace Cleanse with any other ability in this macro if you like how it works.

Psyfiend Turn Evil
#showtooltip Turn Evil
/cleartarget
/targetexact [noharm] Psyfiend
/use [harm]Turn Evil
/targetlasttarget

If you're too lazy to manually target the Psyfiend.  I don't actually use this one, but some may find it useful.


Stopcasting Macros
#showtooltip Devotion Aura
/stopcasting
/cast Devotion Aura

#showtooltip Hand of Sacrifice
/stopcasting
/cast Hand of Sacrifice

The purpose of these macros is to stop whatever your character is currently doing and cast a more important spell.  This is usually only used for very important spells that are time sensitive such as Bubble, Devotion Aura, Hand of Sacrifice, etc.  It makes sure that the important spell goes off when you press the button, no matter what else your character may be doing.

Adding Party1,2,3 targeting support to your macros
Personally I do not usually use this style of macro, but they are very useful and considered by most to be the proper way to use macros.  The idea is that for some (or all) of your abilities there are 2 to 3 different binds that cast the same spell, but on a different person.

Here is an example:
Let's say that R is bound to Cleanse.  Pressing R will cleanse your target if you have one, or will cleanse yourself if you have no target.  Now let's say you want to change things up and use a Party1,2,3 macro for cleanse, so you bind R to this macro:

/cast [target=Party1] Cleanse

When you activate this macro you will always cleanse the first person in your party, no matter who you are targeting.  So at the minimum for 3v3 also need a macro/binding to cleanse your other partner and yourself.

Now that you know how the Party1,2,3 macros actually work, here is how you apply them.  Arena1,2,3 macros work exactly the same way to target your opponents, so just replace "Party" with "Arena."

/cast [target=Party1] Any Spell Here

Conclusion
I felt like Holy Paladins deserved an up to date thread covering some of the basics.  The purpose of this guide is to help new and returning players that may not know what a lot of the new stuff does.

I welcome any constructive criticism or additions.  This is not intended to be a flawless and complete guide, just the basics.  I'm not claiming that my word is gospel or that I am the best Paladin, this is only intended to be a basic helpful guide - so please don't flame.

If you liked what I had to say, you can follow me on Twitch, but I don't stream that often:
http://www.twitch.tv/jimboslyce

Contributors:
Quits
Goodguygabe

Edited by Nightmonkey, 21 November 2013 - 03:00 PM.


#2 Icekingx

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:48 AM

This is what AJ needs good post.

Rawrbertlol, on 14 June 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Best signatures on entire website.
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#3 Matduke

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:14 AM

View PostNightmonkey, on 02 April 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

Psyfiend Turn Evil
#showtooltip Turn Evil
/cleartarget
/targetexact [noharm] Psyfiend
/use [harm]Turn Evil
/targetlasttarget

If anyone plans on using this macro, I think you might have to make another bind for Turn Evil so that you can use it on DK pets(minion/gargoyle), DKs with Lichborne up, Warlock pets, and Priests Shadowfiend.

#4 Nightmonkey

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:19 AM

View PostMatduke, on 02 April 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

If anyone plans on using this macro, I think you might have to make another bind for Turn Evil so that you can use it on DK pets(minion/gargoyle), DKs with Lichborne up, Warlock pets, and Priests Shadowfiend.

Right.  This is the main reason I don't use it, because I don't want to have to use more than one keybind for turn evil.  There is another macro very similar to this one floating around that includes DK pets and shadow fiend, but if there is more than one out it will prioritize Psyfiend.

#5 Quitsx

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:03 AM

I just use a mouseover for turn evil.

#showtooltip Turn Evil
/cast [@Mouseover, exists, harm]Turn Evil
/cast Turn evil

#6 Gsgsgsgsgs

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:24 AM

arena1-3 for HOJ and Repent ( if you have enough space):  /cast [target=arena1,2 or 3] (Hoj / Repent)

Hand of Purity 1-3: #showtooltip Hand of Purity
/cast [target=Coolbears,exists] Hand of Purity;hand of Purity

Dispel 1-3 #showtooltip Cleanse
/cast [target=Coolbears,exists] Cleanse;Cleanse

I think that it's better just to keep battlemasters and DP seperate. I personally would only use DP for incoming deeps and would use, for the most part, battlemasters when i was blanketed.

Also for General Arena Tip:
Make sure to keep rebuffing, as long as your team is floating above 85%.
  • Stay very defensive with your CC if you don't have trinket, at the same time don't just run out for a "rambo" hoj just because you have trinket and bubble.
  • For DPing, in most cases look for dots being swapped onto, and the mage novaing you; in most cases you're about to get deep'd. Even though it's 40% reduced magical damage, you may still have to bubble. :(
  • Prioritize dispels on your most supportive classes. When your team is going offensive make sure to dispel CC that is "full" to maximize uptime for your mongoloid team mate.
  • Also just be really vocal with team mates when you don't have trinket or bubble, letting them know the other team is about to swap onto you before they do could really change the outcome of their swap.

Edited by Gsgsgsgsgs, 02 April 2013 - 02:47 AM.


#7 Quitsx

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:33 AM

using stop casting macros also help on sac, dispel, bubble, etc.
EX:


#showtooltip
/stopcasting
/cast [target=party1] Hand of Sacrifice


#showtooltip
/stopcasting
/cast devotion aura

#8 Nightmonkey

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:01 AM

View PostGsgsgsgsgs, on 02 April 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

I think that it's better just to keep battlemasters and DP seperate. I personally would only use DP for incoming deeps and would use, for the most part, battlemasters when i was blanketed.

It's probably better to do it like you said.  What I find is that I usually end up mashing my DP macro when I get silenced so the BM goes off but not DP, so it ends up doing what you said just a little sloppier.

Good lookin out on the macros too guys.

#9 Nightmonkey

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:31 PM

Cleaned up the formatting a little more, added some of the stuff Quits and Goodguygabe posted, and noted you guys as contributors.  I will continue to update/change it based on any input I receive here.

#10 Bamflol

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:40 PM

beat me to making a guide :P, props nice guide!
Heres some macros I can dump to help contribute atleast (to help fix up the current ones) if you want to add them in that is.

Sac w/removal of mastery buff shift modifier


#showtooltip
/stopcasting
/cast Hand of Sacrifice
/cast [mod:shift, @PLAYERNAMEHERE] Hand of Sacrifice
/cancelaura Illuminated Healing

Turn evil on pets/psyfiend also works just manual targetting

#showtooltip Turn Evil
/target arenapet1
/target arenapet2
/target arenapet3
/target Psyfiend
/cast Turn Evil
/targetlasttarget

if you're lazy and dont want to target anything, this crusader strikes any target in range (used obv to build holy power while pets/people are on you)


#showtooltip
/cleartarget
/targetenemyplayer
/cast Crusader Strike
/targetlasttarget

press once to put up plea, press twice to cancel it.

#showtooltip Divine Plea
/castsequence Divine Plea
/cancelaura Divine Plea

I don't use this but if you're running beacon glyphed, and you're bombing heals but forget to put up beacon to get, this basically pops beacon after the second flash of light off gcd, just mash the button. Not sure if this will be helpful to anyone but maybe to anyone who is new and has issues managing beacon


#showtooltip Flash of Light
/castsequence reset=2, Flash of Light, Beacon of Light, Flash of Light


again, nice guide +rep.

Edited by Bamflol, 02 April 2013 - 03:49 PM.


#11 Nightmonkey

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 04:59 PM

I really like those macros, probably going to use some of them myself, but I'm kind of weary about making the first post too much longer.  Maybe I'll submit all these macros to the macro part of this website and link to it in the guide.  I'll figure out a way to get them included without making the first post into even more of a novel.

#12 Bamflol

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:07 PM

you can perhaps hide them under subsections, where if people want to view them they just click show. idk how to do it but i see people posting like that around here quite often. Sort of like a spoilers box i guess. =/

#13 Nightmonkey

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:10 PM

View PostBamflol, on 03 April 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

you can perhaps hide them under subsections, where if people want to view them they just click show. idk how to do it but i see people posting like that around here quite often. Sort of like a spoilers box i guess. =/

Good idea, I'll get it taken care of tomorrow when I have more time.

#14 Vanguards

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:33 AM

Nice guide!
http://twitch.tv/VanguardsTV- Stream (Follow to know when I'm live!)
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#15 Nightmonkey

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:41 AM

I'm not playing the game anymore, as such there won't be any updates to this guide in the future (I'm sure it's already outdated.)

Hopefully this has helped to lay the groundwork for anyone interested in writing guides for Holy Paladins.

If you're interested in DOTA2, Company of Heroes 2, and BF3 / BF4, I'll be streaming and maybe creating content for those games in the future.  There's still a tiny bit of Holy Paladin gameplay there as well that is current as of (early) 5.3.

http://www.twitch.tv/jimboslyce

#16 Holyoracle

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:33 PM

Hey nice, good guide for beginners :)

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To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour.
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#17 Giromir

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 03:30 PM

nice guide

#18 Warac

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:45 PM

Good job, well written.
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