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Shadow Priests nerfed


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#181 Bula

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:41 PM

View PostMilanah_6538907, on 02 April 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Okay lets see, MD is in the game since when? Oh right, since WOTLK. Always had the same effect and never been a problem, so why do u start crying about it now? Too bad to actually interrupt the Priest from casting it? Same goes for Void Shift, yes it's an extremely powerful ability, but just because 99% of the players are dogshit and just tunnel healers down w/o cc'ing the Priest so he can easily get his void shift through it doesn't mean it has to be nerfed imo. This game has such a ton of cc now and people just don't use it because they are blinded by the stupid amount of damage almost every class can put out in a few seconds.

Let's see: a KFC tunnels the Priest, they Scatter-> Trap the Healer and he's sitting it. Now the priest will of course try to MD it, but you know what? Warrior STUNS him with one of his 2 stuns he's got or the hunter uses his SILENCING SHOT or PET STUN to actually prevent the Priest from casting it. Even most healers can just stun you or just interrupt you in this cast with the amount of cast delay you get from hits you take when you don't have a shield up. Repeat this 3 times and the game is over. Congrats you just won the game cause  you tunneled the priest the whole game so he doesn't get out anything cause he actually has to cast to do proper damage.

god forbid a team that can get a cc rotation on your healer 3 times can actually win the game right?

you're crazy.

#182 Milanah_6538907

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:43 PM

Where did I say that rofl. But how can u actually whine about abilities when u can lock down the priest so much that he cant even get them out?

You really didnt get the point of what i typed there.

#183 Bula

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:45 PM

View PostMilanah_6538907, on 02 April 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Where did I say that rofl. But how can u actually whine about abilities when u can lock down the priest so much that he cant even get them out?

You really didnt get the point of what i typed there.

"Repeat 3 times and the game is over."

seems pretty clear what you meant.

#184 Falla

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostFearful, on 02 April 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Now lets take a look at shadow priests....
-Blanket Silence
-Roots
-Psyfiend that automatically refears you over and over again
-MC
-Personal AOE Fear
-Off Heals stronger than any other healer (instants and casted)
-Way to break your healer out of CD's on an extremely low CD (wtf, no one has anything like MD)
-Life Swap (again wtf is this shit)
-Life Grip (and this)
-and just for shits, lets not forget to mention hymn of hope, as if it actually mattered

Okay so, Roots Psyfiend and MC are all on the same talent tree. Psyfiend is retarded and I hate it, but your a dk, not like you can be feared anyways.
If you take MC as shadow and get a full MC off your team is doing something drastically wrong to let him channel 8s (not to mention he won't be doing any damage in the process)
Personal AoE Fear - Priests have ALWAYS had this.
Offheals - been nerfed time and time again and do like 35k not to mention rape your mana
MD - Also easy to stop if you have a brain, or just cross cc it
Life Grip - Would removing lifegrip actually change anything besides make our healers get trapped even more so than now?
Life Swap - Retarded yes, cross ccable nonetheless

I noticed you failed to list a lot of other abilities that other casters have too, but i guess this is the point your trying to make, exaggerate priest control and make other classes look worse.

#185 Milanah_6538907

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:53 PM

Yes but i never said i wanted this to be nerfed in any way, i really like it that you actually have to cc ppl to win the game. What i wanted to say is just that if you get a cc on the healer while preventing the spriest from getting md/void shift out wins you the game if you can repeat this 3 times. With 5.3 its even gonna be easier than it is now cause even if you trinket the stun of the KFC you still can't void shift, which is okay, but you also can't MD anyway because no team in the world will let a 1.5sec cast go through when it is so essential for the spriests team to survive.

People apparently think MD is like "Oh healer cc'd, jk MD is there." But the MD actually has to be casted by the priest and if you don't interrupt that then you don't deserve to win imo. It's just not too strong as almost everybody here mentions it. It's essential for Shadowpriests to actually survive sometimes. Most spriests that think MD had to be nerfed probably never got trained by meleecleaves like KFC/PHD or just play with mages that can lock down a team with a nova.

#186 sibellx

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:58 PM

YESS! SP Tears Plx!

#187 Deliriumz

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

View PostFearful, on 02 April 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Dude, you can't be fucking serious.

@Every shadow priest in the game.

Compare your defensive utility to other casters and then honestly tell me how it's fair.

Mages:
-Casted CC
-CS/Blanket
-Deep on a 30 second CD
-Roots

Warlocks (lol)
-Casted Fear
-Your choice of tier 2 talent
-CS/Stun depending on if you play demo or some other semi-laughable spec

-Elemental Shamans
-Casted off heals that are infinitely inferior to shadow priests
-Hex
-Roots
-Knockback

Balance Druids
-Clone/Roots
-Casted off heals that are infinitely inferior to shadow priests
-Solar Beam
-Whatever broken symbiosis ability they have
-Knockback

Now lets take a look at shadow priests....
-Blanket Silence
-Roots
-Psyfiend that automatically refears you over and over again
-MC
-Personal AOE Fear
-Off Heals stronger than any other healer (instants and casted)
-Way to break your healer out of CD's on an extremely low CD (wtf, no one has anything like MD)
-Life Swap (again wtf is this shit)
-Life Grip (and this)
-and just for shits, lets not forget to mention hymn of hope, as if it actually mattered

The point I'm making is that pretty much every other DPS caster has the ability to give their healer a chance to catch up. Shadow priests are another healer... In addition to having everything that every other DPS caster has.

Does it seriously need spelled out any more for you guys? I'm done.

I'm fine with the spriest changes, we needed a nerf.. but if you're gonna lay out an analysis.. don't make it biased towards your point.
"Mages:
-Casted CC
-CS/Blanket
-Deep on a 30 second CD
-Roots"
Are you kidding me? Mages can control the entire pace of the game when they want to. You didn't even put ring of frost on there and they can pick up pom for pom rings, polys, etc. And btw, what about alter time, ice block, evo, and all their absorbs? not even listed.

"Now lets take a look at shadow priests....
-Blanket Silence
-Roots
-Psyfiend that automatically refears you over and over again
-MC
-Personal AOE Fear
-Off Heals stronger than any other healer (instants and casted)
-Way to break your healer out of CD's on an extremely low CD (wtf, no one has anything like MD)
-Life Swap (again wtf is this shit)
-Life Grip (and this)
-and just for shits, lets not forget to mention hymn of hope, as if it actually mattered"

Roots and Psyfiend can't be taken together (you choose one), Psyfiend can't fear the same target more than once (that was already hotfixed changed weeks ago), Psyfiend is now macro targettable for instant kills, no spriest takes MC for their talents, MD certainly was unique but if you remember we used to have a flat out instant dispel.. thats like saying 'teleport for warlocks, wtf no one has anything like teleport'.. and btw, other classes do have dispels, warlock imps, rets, etc.. and hymm of hope isnt a defensive.

I'm not saying the changes that were made are wrong or bad, I'm fine with them.. but I expected more from an experienced player.. this post was completely biased.

Edited by Deliriumz, 02 April 2013 - 04:07 PM.


#188 hoodrych

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:04 PM

I remember when Shamans got a big nerf with the no-totem while silence change

some said they'd be the worst healer

yeah........

#189 Fearful

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:15 PM

View PostFalla, on 02 April 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

I noticed you failed to list a lot of other abilities that other casters have too, but i guess this is the point your trying to make, exaggerate priest control and make other classes look worse.
Go ahead and point out the defensive peels I "forgot" to list. I skipped shit like iceblock/dispersion because they aren't peels. I guess I forgot warlocks demonic gateway, but other than that everything seems to be there.

All of your arguments for keeping shadow priests abilities the same are complete nonsense. We know how to play the game, dude. We know what we can do to counter said abilities. You could come up with a counter for every ability in the game, it doesn't mean certain abilities are any less too effective than others. What do I mean by effective? They allow you to either work through the other teams cooldowns or save your team from having to use their own cooldowns faster than the other team has the ability to do. You don't understand this, therefore your "arguments" are based on false logic and are therefore.... bull. shit.

Need me to further explain and break down why each one of your points is stupid? Fine.

Roots Psyfiend and MC are all on the same talent tree. Psyfiend is retarded and I hate it, but your a dk, not like you can be feared anyways.

I was simply listing the abilities. I have no problem with roots or MC. Yet somehow because I play a DK psyfiend is fine. OK.

Personal AoE Fear - Priests have ALWAYS had this.

Again, I don't have a problem with this ability. I'm saying that this ability in combination with all the other abilites you have make you too effective. Furthermore, just because priests have always had it doesn't mean it should stay the same if it was too effective, which it's not.

MD - Also easy to stop if you have a brain, or just cross cc it

No. You can't always stop anything. Furthermore, why should an ability be so good that you have to always stop it.

Life Grip - Would removing lifegrip actually change anything besides make our healers get trapped even more so than now?

I don't have a problem with this ability. You're too effective. Starting to get it yet?

Life Swap - Retarded yes, cross ccable nonetheless.

You. Are. Too. Effective. Relative. To. Other. Classes.

#190 Deliriumz

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostFearful, on 02 April 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

No. You can't always stop anything. Furthermore, why should an ability be so good that you have to always stop it.

Warlock gateway in arena. haha

#191 Fearful

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:20 PM

View PostDeliriumz, on 02 April 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:


You also misunderstood what I was saying, so I apologize for not being clear enough. I'm saying you have too much utility which is making you too effective at peeling for your team. I don't have a problem with most shadow priest abilities, but if you combine everything together you're too effective at peeling for your team. This is what I mean by lower level players don't understand how the game is played at a top level. Personal defensive abilities like ice barrier, ice block and stuff like that doesn't help you peel for your team.

Also I'm pretty sure ring of frost falls under casted CC.

#192 Milanah_6538907

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:20 PM

View PostFearful, on 02 April 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

Go ahead and point out the defensive peels I "forgot" to list. I skipped shit like iceblock/dispersion because they aren't peels. I guess I forgot warlocks demonic gateway, but other than that everything seems to be there.

All of your arguments for keeping shadow priests abilities the same are complete nonsense. We know how to play the game, dude. We know what we can do to counter said abilities. You could come up with a counter for every ability in the game, it doesn't mean certain abilities are any less too effective than others. What do I mean by effective? They allow you to either work through the other teams cooldowns or save your team from having to use their own cooldowns faster than the other team has the ability to do. You don't understand this, therefore your "arguments" are based on false logic and are therefore.... bull. shit.

Need me to further explain and break down why each one of your points is stupid? Fine.

Roots Psyfiend and MC are all on the same talent tree. Psyfiend is retarded and I hate it, but your a dk, not like you can be feared anyways.

I was simply listing the abilities. I have no problem with roots or MC. Yet somehow because I play a DK psyfiend is fine. OK.

Personal AoE Fear - Priests have ALWAYS had this.

Again, I don't have a problem with this ability. I'm saying that this ability in combination with all the other abilites you have make you too effective. Furthermore, just because priests have always had it doesn't mean it should stay the same if it was too effective, which it's not.

MD - Also easy to stop if you have a brain, or just cross cc it

No. You can't always stop anything. Furthermore, why should an ability be so good that you have to always stop it.

Life Grip - Would removing lifegrip actually change anything besides make our healers get trapped even more so than now?

I don't have a problem with this ability. You're too effective. Starting to get it yet?

Life Swap - Retarded yes, cross ccable nonetheless.

You. Are. Too. Effective. Relative. To. Other. Classes.

30 second cd on Asphyxiate as DK, 20second cd on Kidney Shot, should i go on? Every comp has something to stop MD, just dont play braindead and use it proper and not in the opener just because it's ready.

Edited by Milanah_6538907, 02 April 2013 - 04:21 PM.


#193 dreschnuu99

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostBeckinsalelol, on 02 April 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

These spriest tears taste so good.

Destro gon get chu now.


.
Posted Image

#194 wtfbro

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

i don't believe spriests will be the only class without a level 87 ability in game so new ability inc? :)

Edited by wtfbro, 02 April 2013 - 04:27 PM.


#195 Renaissance_Man

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

View Postkmaclol, on 02 April 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

The 'top tier' players responding to this thread and saying spriests will be fine our either idiotic or biased heavily. People like talbadar think its ok because they have almost anyone to select from to play competitive 3's with...Sadly that's not the case for most players, and even then you'd be at a disadvantage. If these changes go live they will put shadowpriests at a worse spot then warlocks - and if you plan to push rank one anywhere you'll have to be put on a 'superstar 5's' or play with Lord Kaska himself.

How many caster teams do you see this season as it is? You think our overlord hunters have it easy now just wait. Have any of you guys tried training a shadowpriest before? Kick him at 80% and pop cd's as thug or something and he can die in the kick duration. Resto Shaman thug... Sap, Scatter, Silencing, Blind, Intimidate, Shear, Hex, Kick, Garrote, Cheap Shot, Kidney, Gouge. Obviously no team is perfect, but you only need a few of these to land to easily score a kill. Shadowpriest damage will be abysmal. VT / SW:P ticks for complete shit, yes we have huge damage coming from DP / Insanity / Pet, but if you even plan to go offensive you need to be insanely safe before that.and setups will be easily countered by retarded pressure.

To get orbs as a shadowpriest, you have to sit through the garrote / cheap / kick / gouge / silencing/ intimidate, it's absolutely retarded, by the time you have enough orbs for a switch your team is drastically behind. Of course I believe god comp needed huge nerfs and had insane survivability but this was definitely the wrong way to approach changes.

Not only that, but this lowers the already lesser amount of 'skill' required in this game. You won't even be able to pre-md a CC on your healer with a 1.5 second cast, especially with something like mind numbing on you. This doesn't just hurt spriests, it's a a huge nerf to resto druids and any caster partner they would bring along prior. What caster comps will be viable now? It's disgusting how everyone thinks life swap was some kind of lay on hands when that's so far from the truth. The amount of mongloid teams who refuse to swap to the player who's now at 25% is gross.

Spriest Damage: 3 Orb DP / Insanity / Pet/.. | Train spriest, stop orbs, kill easily with no defensives
Spriest CC: Fear |  Which lines up perfectly with tremor (shamans lol), completely negating every single fear, how could this still be in the game?
Spriest Utility: Insanely expensive shields that hunters instantly remove? PoM / Renew which are almost instantly negated

As it is I can already grip the first trap, and manually eat every trap after that and still be at a disadvantage against mongloid melee cleaves, anyone who agrees with this change is an elitist who has partners to arrange games with, or someone tired of facing god comps because the games last more then their usual 3 minute melee zerg.

tl;dr : casters are dead,

>our either idiotic
>idiotic
you nailed it there.

#196 Fearful

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

View PostDeliriumz, on 02 April 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Warlock gateway in arena. haha
This thread isn't about warlocks, or DKs, or any other class. It's about shadow priests being too good at peeling for their team.

#197 Deliriumz

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:26 PM

View PostFearful, on 02 April 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

You also misunderstood what I was saying, so I apologize for not being clear enough. I'm saying you have too much utility which is making you too effective at peeling for your team. I don't have a problem with most shadow priest abilities, but if you combine everything together you're too effective at peeling for your team. This is what I mean by lower level players don't understand how the game is played at a top level. Personal defensive abilities like ice barrier, ice block and stuff like that doesn't help you peel for your team.

Also I'm pretty sure ring of frost falls under casted CC.

I gotcha Recognize, we're on the same level I think. As I said before, I don't disagree with the nerfs at all haha we are way too OP atm. I did misunderstand your analysis some. A few things to pitch in to the conversation though is that spriests are the only caster who's mana management actually matters to some extent (especially when trained by kfc, tsg, etc. and throwing out a lot of offheals and difficulty getting VT's out), our silence is on a 45 sec cd vs 25.. pretty huge.. especially because most of the comps we run need the silence to really get pressure/cooldowns, using it as a random peel is pretty bad (now stopping a kill on someone, of course). Oh and you forgot about psychic horror on your list, even though it uses orbs its still really good. It'll be interesting to see how things turn out in 5.3. Training an spriest to the ground as a cleave seems highly effective based on these notes.

#198 Deliriumz

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:29 PM

View PostFearful, on 02 April 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

This thread isn't about warlocks, or DKs, or any other class. It's about shadow priests being too good at peeling for their team.

I was just sayin, thats another ability that's "so good that you have to always stop it." To a much larger extent.

#199 Fearful

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:30 PM

Thanks for pointing out the part about psychic horror.

The point about silence is true and again, I'm not targeting any specific abilities, especially not offensive damage type abilities. The specific abilites/nerfs that need to be addressed is another post entirely. I'm just trying to explain the problem to people who don't seem to be getting it. I'm targeting shadow priests defensive peels as a whole.

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:31 PM

View PostFearful, on 02 April 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

This thread isn't about warlocks, or DKs, or any other class. It's about shadow priests being too good at peeling for their team.

hey tom how u been :)




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