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Current state of AJ: Moderation


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#1 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:38 AM

Original thread from Thaya that prompted this thread:  http://www.arenajunk...do-to-help-pvp/

Hey.  Disclaimer:  No one from Curse nor any admin/moderator prompted me to make this thread or response; these are simply my views and opinions given Thaya's thread.  I can't cover every single item in there because I do not play WoW and have not in a while so I feel there are some aspects of that thread in which I'm likely not knowledgeable enough to address.  Maybe I am, maybe I'm not but I don't want to overstep my bounds on the initial post.

That being said, I've taken a fair amount of quotes from that thread and I'll try to address them specifically but something else needs to be said in a more general sense.  Here's the thing.  A fair amount of reports or comments in threads say things like, "Are the moderators ever going to do their job?" "Where's the moderation?" And so forth.  What I can about that is, I don't think the negative attitude really helps.  The report DOES help.  But why insult the people you're effectively reaching out to for help?  This is a more minor issue but I just wanted to address that.  I enjoy moderating AJ as I used to be a PvP player who actively put out content in the Priest section, wrote some guides, responded to all sorts of PMs (both in game and on AJ) as well as made videos.  In essence, I wanted to be a moderator to give back to the community that helped me perpetuate my content while assisting other players.  That being said, I do it on my own time, for free.  I'm not mad, upset, really annoyed, crying or any of that.  Just please keep in mind that for us, we're volunteering to help out.

The community has the ability to call in to question the moderators abilities and is doing so in Thaya's very own thread.  Thaya does it in a very respectful manner and that's all that I'm really asking for.  I mean how effective would it be if you went to your professor's office after class and started the conversation like, "Hey Professor <name>, your class is a load of shit and you suck at teaching.  When are you ever going to make your class more communicable? By the way, here's a problem I'm having with the past assignment"

You get the point, so I'll leave that.  Again, I'm not mad/upset/annoyed blah blah at anyone specifically here NOR am I trying to be disrespectful; I'm just asking that if you have an issue with something, please bring it up in a respectful manner.

--

The biggest thing I wanna address is this.  Arenajunkies is a collective of people whose primary focus in WoW is PvP.  It was made by PvPers, for PvPers.  That being said, we're all equal.  Equal how?  We're all part of the same community.  And for this community to not only survive but also thrive, you have to help out as well.  You get out what you put in.  So what do I mean by that?  Everyone, lurker or prominent poster, if you have an issue with something PLEASE UTILIZE THE REPORT FUNCTION.  I, and any other mod, get a notification in the top right of the screen indicating a new report has been made.  Think of it like Facebook in terms of layout and visibility.  Off the top of my head, there are about 20 main forums and many with sub forums contained within those main forums.  And within those subforums, there are a myriad of threads with even more responses per thread.  There is SOME proactive moderation, but I'd assume a fair/good amount is retroactive.  It doesn't take more than 15-30 seconds (or less) to generate a report.  Every single report gets attended to.  If you want the useless bashing post to be handled, report it.  If you want the off topic, useless post to be handled, report it.  

Think of it as how a government or police force functions I guess.  Sure, the administration is aware of some issues and proactively tries to solve them but without voter movements or civilian reports, there would simply be some issues/crimes that would never get attended to.

There were 9 total reports addressed today.  Does the community feel that there were only 9 posts since the 12:01 AM CST Wednesday, that were worthy of being a reportable offense?  I'd assume not.  If you want the moderation to go up, then help us help you.

--

One last thing.  There are lots of people giving very general advice.  "There is no reward for coming here." "People get to do whatever they want, fix that."  There's a lot of general complaints about what's not working.  So how about the flip side, what would YOU do?  Some suggestions were made.  "Remove the NAO subforum."  "Maybe make some of the junkie only sections available to people of all access levels" and so on.  

I think to fix a problem, you have to do more than just point it out.  I'm not saying the burden of fixing problems should be entirely on the posters of AJ but maybe try to take it a step further if possible.  

1. Find the issue.
2. State the issue.
3. Make a suggestion(s).

Again, it is helpful to say, "I don't like x, can you please fix x?"  But if you can continue that sentence, "I don't like x, can you please fix x by doing y?" it might help more.  


View PostThaya, on 26 March 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Class forums, I only visit the warlock and occasionally the DK one, but both are inactive. It wouldn't surprise me if all the other class forums are also inactive - people don't even bother to report sticky threads from Season 9... So I wonder, why are class forums still junkie-only? They could be the perfect place to answer questions and educate people. I used to post a ton on class forums on official forums just because I enjoyed answering questions and helping people, while at the same time refining and reviewing my own knowledge constantly.

Same thing goes for the 2v2/3v3/5v5 subsections of the general discussion section. I don't think they serve any purpose whatsoever anymore. You could drag them out and let non-junkies access them, so there are actual discussions about 2v2/3v3/5v5 matchups instead of being a collection of threads about end of season wintrading.

With some decent moderation, this could work wonders. I don't mean EJ-esque strict moderation. Just remove all the trash replies and warn/ban douchebags. It won't be that hard, really.

- "NAO Invitational Tournament", when was the last NAO?


And lastly, be nicer to each other. When there's no textual references and all experience and knowledge is shared verbally, it matters more than ever.

I believe many of your issues are addressed in my long post before this quote.  In regard to specifically the NAO subforum; there have been motions in the AJ Skype channel to get rid of the NAO subforum.  Moderators do not have the power to remove/add forums, only admins.  If you want to speed up the process, perhaps address one of the admins.  Maybe Diziet or Rapture.

View PostBraindance, on 26 March 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Nothing will change here for the following reasons:

a)There is no sense of reward or punishment in those forums and in the game now. You can be a saint and get nothing or be a complete jackass and get the respect of this mob called junkies, just because you got "swag" (/puke)

c) The moderation is, as the word says, moderate. Moderators are too easy on everyone. Bans are rare. Infractions have too high of a cap. Any sociopath that had problems with his real life, can come here and open fire on everyone without any kind of punishment, UNLESS, someone, somewhere decides to push the report button which is scarcely used

f)You get the most +rep for posting moronic bullshit and childish insults. Good posts are rarely rewarded.

This AJ, is sending all the new players to either skill-capped or streamers. How many new players are willing to pay money to learn how to pvp? Quite a few. How many new players would pvp if they didn't have to pay to go through the rough learning curve? A lot.

tl;dr If moderation in this place doesn't become way more strict, if no incentives are given to junkies for making guides (even that pet giveaway that Curse does), this situation will keep recycling itself perpetually.

a)  I cannot speak for in-game punishment, but as far as forum punishment goes, member are infracted and banned.  They just are.  I can look at the infraction page and see it first hand.

c)  Perhaps the punishment is too lenient, I'm not sure.  But I believe my long post may address that.  The frequency at which reports come in, is relatively slow compared to how many "useless/bashing" posts there are judging by the amount of complaints in Thaya's thread.

f)  Again, perhaps addressed in the long post.

View PostBraindance, on 26 March 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

They should go back to battlegroup forums, or as Tyveris had promised once make a rant room.

There is a rant room.  It's invite only and closed.  I, nor any other moderator level user, has the ability to open it back up.

** Special note, you posting a Nazi emblem in Thaya's thread probably wasn't exactly useful and seems ironic given that you have issues with AJ.

View Postkazuhmeer, on 26 March 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

Also, where are moderators?  The amount of threads that start on topic then go into 3 posts of flame wars and off-topic stupidity without any bans is amazing.

I think this is addressed in my long post.

View PostCreepStatus, on 26 March 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

First rule of rant room: You don't talk about rant room.

But seriously I understand why rant room broke off and made it invite only, but they should have made something to replace it maybe? IDK.

I think opening rant room back up or creating a "rant room version 2" would be/should be something that happens.  Something that is essentially moderation free I suppose, just how rant room is now.  Also with some type of consent form "to sign", basically hitting "I accept" into the special functionality of rant room.

View PostHotted, on 26 March 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

I think that AJ's website and people that upkeep it are dropping the ball in many aspects. As far as helping new players out, I couldn't agree more. I try to do instructional content on youtube and most of the comments are how people didn't know x did this and y did that. Good post Thaya. I wish more people would take your stance

I think my original, long post addresses this.  How are people dropping the ball and what would you suggest people do to fix it?

View PostCakesz, on 27 March 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

I'd go as far as saying either AJ needs a completely new mod/owner team, or a new site would be better at achieving these goals.

Why?

----

Link to original thread in General Discussion:  http://www.arenajunk...-aj-moderation/

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#2 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:41 AM

Both threads are pinned.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#3 augiddin

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:48 AM

The fact is this site makes way to big a deal about people's rating. You want to increase activity? Start by removing/deleting posts every time some big shot multi glad or w/e decides someone's opinion is invalid because they don't have a helmet. People are literally afraid to give their opinions on anything constructive because they know they will be called out on their rating if someone disagree's with them. Not to mention the people who really want to discuss these problems aren't even aloud to post here. Ask a gladiator should have some volunteer for each class to actually answer questions for people, everyone knows its a waste of time to post there it barely ever gets replied to. The people really craving insight to this game aren't the glads, they know the game and how to adapt. It's the people trying to break whatever wall they are stuck at who are going to decide the fate of this forum.

#4 Udderly

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:21 AM

So I'm a 2k player who has visited this site for a very long time.  Personally, I used to live for the posts that we saw describing how to play a certain comp, tricks for a class, and general guides.  I would spend time reading and rereading every single one (no matter what class, they all helped me get better) so that I could become a better player.  

Now?  I've seen a mage and a rogue guide in the last 6 months (maybe there were others, but that's all I've seen) and thats it.  So I set out to make content myself, because as a non-junkie, I've been deemed 'not worthy' of giving anyone tips and advice on how to play the classes I play on AJ.  So over at lazerchicken.com, I have more information on playing a moonkin in pvp than I've found on classes/comp/etc. combined across this entire forum in the last year (aside from the guides I've mentioned) and I actually have people asking me questions and wanting more information and I'm really GLAD TO HELP.  Originally, it was something I wanted to do on AJ - provide a guide and start discussions on the state of Moonkin.  But being buried in the "waiting room" is like a death sentence.  Have a look at the thread I started with part of my guide - it is like a ghost town.

There are a METRIC TON of people out there who aren't very good at PvP and just want to come to AJ for some good content.  People like me not having a helmet by our names doesn't mean that we don't know what we're doing.  Do I still come here multiple times a day and read threads still? Absolutely.  But I am disappointed far more often than I am excited, as I can't be part of the discussion or help someone when I actually know the answer (and no one else has bothered to respond in the "ask a glad" section).  I've literally PM'd people with answers to their questions so that I could help out.

What I'm not trying to do is hype me.  What I am saying is there are more of us out there that want to be involved but are on the outside looking in.  Look at what Hildegard has brought to this site.  Everyone is terrified that "lol badz posting ruinz AJ".  But guess what?  He's been one of the best posters and content providers in a while and he's not a 2.2k player.  Something to think about...

#5 Dubaaii

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

Hi,
give posting rights to over 20ppl now or so who are here for past couple of years and ban new comming trolls who somehow got posting rights - 1 problem solved.

You ask why, he's asking for new moderators? The above for starters, second thing so many people on this sight (just like in game) got there helmets (rights to post etC) by either boosts, ebay etc. then they just post bullshit in most cases and nothing happens to them. Quality over quantity, but it seems the second one is more important to owners which obv is fair enough since it generates (i guess) more $.

p.s. personally i don't care all that much, i'm reading AJ and will keep on reading till i finally stop playing the game.

and ye, thank's for posting it here as well.

and obv i don't think of ban all trolls is good or needed, but some users got over e.g. 400+ posts and not a single usefull post.

#6 Saru93

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:14 AM

I'm, just saying if you want to ban trolls on aj, you probably have to ban 70% of the Users.

#7 Sska

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:32 AM

Hello Sykeasaurus,

I am playing WOW for over 6 years. I've been reading AJ for a few years and I remember times when sub forums like Class forums were very active. People were making/updating guides and AJ had quiet many high end PVP players posting here actively.

I think you found the best timing to make this post, because apparently WoW PVP have a slight chance to get back to it's original fun level of gaming, I am talking about Holinka being PVP designer.

If you remember things went bad for AJ since WOW PVP started to fall into abyss of boredom. Problems like trolls and not constructive posting were not important when AJ had a lot of relevant to WOW PVP posts from real gladiators sitting here and leaving their comments about current state of the game.

Probably most important thing to do right now is to clean forum from "dead" sub forums and recruit active moderators. Maybe even class moderators, at least a few people which known as the best players among others.

One more thing, many times I wanted to leave a constructive comment, but there is always this bug with access. I had requirements for it several seasons, but it just did work out. I am sure there are many people having the same issues. Who is responsible for it, who to ask?

Sadly, not reading AJ so often anymore.

Thanks,
Sska.

#8 Helia

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:33 PM

Posted here : http://www.arenajunk...20#entry3867954

It addresses moderation too. Should maybe have split into 2 parts. One of them would have belong here.

#9 Hotpie

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:42 PM

Imo you should remove access to the people with TBC only titles. Like Braindance, he can't even get t2 now, he's a s1 glad and mostly only posts useless stuff which most of the people disagree to.


Also I guess I'll use the report button more.

#10 Njsx

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:27 AM

The single largest change this site needs is active admins. People (myself included) who have had glad for awhile still don't have access, even after many posts and PMs to said admins.  There's no content because the new and upcoming Glads cant get access given to them to create it.  Personally I just stopped caring and stopped using the site, and I know I'm not alone.  Its just case-in-point that you haven't responded to a soul in this thread whereas the junkie only one you respond to everyone.  The reality is that the majority of traffic comes from people who aren't junkies.  The best solution to this is just remove a requirement and let everyone discuss.  Proactive moderation would be needed however.

Secondly; and I'll preface this...Sykeasaurus I like you, you seem like a good guy and I always enjoyed your BC movies, but many people from the other thread are right, we need more mods who actually play the game.  Being invested in it makes it more worth their time to forge a better community, and they're also more familiar with the community and more qualified to make decisions on boosters/traders etc.  This isn't to say you shouldn't be a mod...just that we need more that actually play.

We all know the community is smaller, which means naturally the site will do worse if things don't change. The best change I foresee is removing access restrictions and getting new admins who actually care.

#11 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:47 AM

Right now, I believe a new administrator has been added or will be added within the next few days to help alleviate some of the issues that only administration level users can address.  Hopefully that will help with some of the issues addressed in this thread.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#12 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:47 AM

And I do believe he plays WoW actively, still.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#13 Enyalius

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:11 PM

I think that moderators needs to respond more often. Just as an example, I contacted WildeHilde just to get the name of a moderator (cause I was in a an angered state). After I got the name of a mod, I sent a PM. Still no answer, and its been 5 months. I can write a PM to you instead with the thingy I wanted to get fixed, but still. 5 months no answer is stupid.

The forums here are fine imo. Just needs some minor tweaking by mods, as in removing unnecessary flaming (dont think of what I just wrote "flaming is necessary", but more of leaving mild flaming alone), spammers and trolls. Feels like everytime I go to any thread, there is a bunch of morons with Junkies-access that just sits down and writes random crap that is pre-written in bloody Notepad.

Minor trolling, some minor gifs and pics etc are fine, noone cares and it will most likely give ppl a laugh, but abusing a thread to post their entire gif-pic folder is just unnecessary, and makes me die a little on the inside.

Got lots more to write, but I'm a little out of time atm. Just hope what I wrote will make some sense (not from an english-speaking country, sorry for that).

/^^^^^^\

<(õ_õ)>

./|\.

/\


#14 Moderator

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:16 PM

If you don't get a reply within a day or so, you can forward the message on to another Mod.

It could well be that your message was missed, we do get some really random messages, as well as a lot of Curse generated messages when we comment on infractions so it's easy to miss things sometimes.

Alternatively, you can just post things here, that way it's guaranteed to be seen.
Global Moderator Account

#15 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:02 AM

View PostEnyalius, on 02 April 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

I think that moderators needs to respond more often. Just as an example, I contacted WildeHilde just to get the name of a moderator (cause I was in a an angered state). After I got the name of a mod, I sent a PM. Still no answer, and its been 5 months. I can write a PM to you instead with the thingy I wanted to get fixed, but still. 5 months no answer is stupid.

The forums here are fine imo. Just needs some minor tweaking by mods, as in removing unnecessary flaming (dont think of what I just wrote "flaming is necessary", but more of leaving mild flaming alone), spammers and trolls. Feels like everytime I go to any thread, there is a bunch of morons with Junkies-access that just sits down and writes random crap that is pre-written in bloody Notepad.

Minor trolling, some minor gifs and pics etc are fine, noone cares and it will most likely give ppl a laugh, but abusing a thread to post their entire gif-pic folder is just unnecessary, and makes me die a little on the inside.

Got lots more to write, but I'm a little out of time atm. Just hope what I wrote will make some sense (not from an english-speaking country, sorry for that).

I believe I reply to all of my PMs the day they're sent.  If not, worse case scenario is the next day.  As a friendly tip, if you go to:  http://www.arenajunkies.com/forum -- you can find the link near the bottom that says "The Moderating Team" (direct link here:  http://www.arenajunk...tats&do=leaders).  This gives a list of all the current administrators and moderators.

What you wrote came across fine.  We are trying to cut down on the useless posts (trolling, insulting, bashing, etc.) but the more the community actively reports these types of posts, the better the forum will get.  I said it just a few posts up but I want to reiterate again; the amount of posts since I made this thread has gone up quite a bit and I would like to see it go up even more!

I appreciate the help and feedback so far.  I'm hoping that Vanguards getting administrator access will help a lot as well, with all the access issues.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#16 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:21 AM

I spoke with a content manager @ Curse today, which is something new for me.  I don't have a lot to say about that at the moment but considering I haven't done that before, that seems like some sign of progress forward.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#17 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:23 AM

Also, I believe access levels are going to be looked at with the new administrator coming on (Vanguards), which a lot of you seem to think is an issue worth looking at.  Hopefully that counts for something.  I wish I had more news about that, but I don't.  I just know that it's going to be looked at and you're definitely being heard.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#18 Xisa

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:17 PM

I would post in the main thread, but my rating isn't high enough yet this season (ironic given the discussion at hand).

There's an old marketing adage that says "Perception is reality". Regardless of what actually goes on, what people THINK goes on is what tends to have an actual impact.

When nearly every single thread of any activity on the forum is full of GIFs, inane troll response, or just general rudeness, the eyes of the viewers glass over, ignore it, and just leave. It's the reason I don't frequent the site anymore. Nothing useful is said, and and what is said is incessant whining/trolling/advertising for streams.

Arena Junkies used to be a destination website, the Elitist Jerks of the PvP community. I'm aware that competition breeds a certain level of aggression in people: I've competed in various things for my entire life, from sports to academics to this game. .

It is not an excuse for the level of nastiness and uselessness that goes on here. In sales, the expression "10 years to gain a customer, 10 minutes to lose one" is taken seriously for a reason: It's true. Most people are not going to complain, not write a post, not hit the report button.

They are simply going to leave, and never come back.

The toxicity of this forum has to be cleaned up. You can't have a healthy garden that's full of weeds. People that contribute nothing but drivel and bile to their respective discussions simply don't need to be here. They don't add anything, all they do is take away.

You can have humor and advice in a thread without being a douchebag. You can offer criticism without being an asshole.

That's what will create and nourish a community. The Arena Junkies name and brand is close to a toxic asset at this point. It's not beyond saving, but you're going to have to pull the weeds.

#19 KIA Skill

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:48 AM

Wtf is this? I am not sure what I am reading but it looks like I'm reading a league of legends red post. Please don't turn this website into league of legends baby 12 year old community. Thank you. Do not encourage people to report posts other than those that are blatantly offensive/racist. If you can't handle a little trolling, get the fuck off the internet. Thank you.

#20 Sykeasaurus

Sykeasaurus
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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:25 PM

View PostKIA Skill, on 11 April 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Wtf is this? I am not sure what I am reading but it looks like I'm reading a league of legends red post. Please don't turn this website into league of legends baby 12 year old community. Thank you. Do not encourage people to report posts other than those that are blatantly offensive/racist. If you can't handle a little trolling, get the fuck off the internet. Thank you.

Not every reported post means it's going to be deleted/hidden.  Calm down.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day




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