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#21 snackbacon

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:47 PM

Saw Reckful doing 3s on his rogue and did nothing but Shuriken Toss. That must be the cool thing to do now.

#22 bouncyballs

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:03 PM

Obvious fix is obvious, take out the combo point generation fromn shuriken toss.


Fixed, you are welcome.

#23 AcerMVP

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:24 PM

View Postsnackbacon, on 28 March 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Saw Reckful doing 3s on his rogue and did nothing but Shuriken Toss. That must be the cool thing to do now.

I've been abusing ST since it came out, now I'm abusing ST + DT, best combo ever.

#24 Celaurthor

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:34 PM

View Postbouncyballs, on 28 March 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

Obvious fix is obvious, take out the combo point generation fromn shuriken toss.


Fixed, you are welcome.
Still does too much damage man. Need to just double its cost(at least) and put a cd on deadly throw.

#25 Ilidio

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:02 PM

I lol'd so much yesterday at Reckful's stream when he was playing his shuriken rogue.
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#26 inhume

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:11 PM

deadly throw is the problem, not shuriken toss. ranged interrupt with no cooldown that does high dmg, slows the opponent and can interrupt for 6 seconds....the dmg from the auto attack +cp builder are no more than if the rogue was on his target.

i forgot to mention how overpowered it is to have two lockouts.

Edited by inhume, 28 March 2013 - 07:13 PM.


#27 KPul

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:19 PM

Now before everyone starts flaming me saying I'm "defending an OP ability" or trying to prevent my class from being nerfed. I am just here to share my knowledge of shuriken toss with those of you who might not know much about it.  

Shuriken toss:
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In previous posts you will see people complain about HUGE crits recieved from shuriken toss.  I will show you screenshots of how these large numbers were applied. Most of these complaints about 40k crits from shuriken toss are slightly skewed and i will show you why.

This is the recount SS of where i was able to replicate the 40k shuriken toss crit on my hunter friend "Pretend". I was only able to replicate the 40k crits you guys were talking about with everything procced at the same time.  I had to open with garrote for 'Find Weakness'(lowers enemy's armor by 70%), gain 'Sanguinary Vein' From the bleed (Rogue does 20% more damage to the target), 'Master of Subtlety'(Rogue does 10% more damage for 6 seconds after breaking stealth), and also have my On use AND Proc trinket up at the same time.

now before you guys think I dont have any gear. I will link armories of both partys in the screen shot

http://us.battle.net...n/Kpul/advanced

http://us.battle.net...retend/advanced

the hunter has 68.21% resil and my rogue is pretty much gear capped with 34042 Attack power and 56.66% PvPPower.

here is the SS:
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While i do agree that when the stars align that shuriken toss hits very, very hard.  Wouldn't you guys agree that when a player has trinkets procced and such situations enabled that allow such high damage output, that you guys would be forced to start CC'ing him at that point. You are shooting yourself in the foot if you dont want to CC the targets that pop their on use trinkets because at that point they, usually, are going for the kill.

Now I'm going to post screenshots of what kind of damage shuriken toss will do if trinkets arent procced.  In this SS the rogue opened with garrote to gain Find Weakness and Sanguinary Vein.

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Not as crazy as the 40k crits but I will agree that it is still hitting very hard. But since when haven't rogues done large amounts of damage coming out of stealth.  Its usually a high rated teams mission to own a rogues opener am I right?

Here is a screen shot of a rogues shuriken toss spam while the target has only has rupture on him.

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Pretty hard hitting still during this situation, this and the screenshot below are probably the most often seen scenarios where the rogue is spamming shuriken toss, most likely rooted or snared while Dance and Vanish are on cd

This screenshot is the damage the rogue does with shuriken toss while being kited effectively.  He doesn't have Find Weakness or his Sanguinary Vein bleeds on the target.  This is what happens to a rogue who cannot connect to a target after his cooldowns have fallen.

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I am with the general public in saying that shuriken toss is a very overpowered ability in 1v1 situations because there isn't a class that can  CC the rogue during (subterfuge) while its burst window is active. (Find Weakness/Sanguinary Vein/Master of Subtlety).   But in matches where the target the rogue is hitting has a healer.   That burst window is best utilized with better moves such as Ambush/Eviscerate.   I for one use shuriken toss to make sure i can keep up decent pressure while not over extending.. its a very useful move to keep combo's / finishers and stay in a safe spot while you set up an opportune swap.   I personally would like to see shuriken toss reverted to the way it was back in 5.0. But what not many people realize is that we will still have those 40k crits with shuriken toss that everyone complains about.  We will just lose our auto attack portion of the attack where, in my opinion, most of the op damage comes from.
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#28 KPul

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:33 PM

View PostThugjitsu, on 28 March 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

hidden

heres a tl;dr :  the only times you see 40k shuriken toss crits are when the stars align.. and if you dont CC a rogue when he has everything up you deserve to die anyway.
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#29 Thugjitsu

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:37 PM

View PostKPul, on 28 March 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

heres a tl;dr :  the only times you see 40k shuriken toss crits are when the stars align.. and if you dont CC a rogue when he has everything up you deserve to die anyway.

So with your logic they should bring back Taste for Blood crits for 250k, when the stars are in alignment of course...
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#30 KPul

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostThugjitsu, on 28 March 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

So with your logic they should bring back Taste for Blood crits for 250k, when the stars are in alignment of course...

no.. because shuriken toss isnt one shotting people thru cooldowns
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#31 Mattadoro

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:43 PM

just waiting for the hunter ability called pistol whipping where we smack our gun on people's head within melee range for 90k's as if they were ambush spams

i should be a dev
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#32 CreepStatus

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:46 PM

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Edited by CreepStatus, 28 March 2013 - 07:47 PM.

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#33 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

I don't like the current Shuriken Toss, but I'm just as poor of a fan of its current state as I am of its 5.1 state. Being able to throw Crippling Poison and Mind Numbing from ranged has been one of the most frustrating things about playing against a Rogue ever, IMO. The current Shuriken Toss no longer does that, but it got replaced with something even more frustrating to deal with as a healer, high sustained damage. I think considering the strength of the other abilities in that tier, Shuriken Toss should simply cost 35 energy and award a single combo point. None of this attack from ranged nonsense. I think it sets up finishers too easily (Slice and Dice + Recuperate are always up) and gives them too much to do at ranged. I think Deadly Throw + Shuriken Toss is a cool combo and gives the Rogue something to do while being kited, but it's a little out of control as is as well as pre-patch.

#34 kannetixx

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

View PostKPul, on 28 March 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

heres a tl;dr :  the only times you see 40k shuriken toss crits are when the stars align.. and if you dont CC a rogue when he has everything up you deserve to die anyway.


that logic is beyond flawed..

i watched a rogue with everything up - just pop a smoke bomb when he was too far away and just start chucking ninja stars at me and i couldn't get to los fast enough i was like alright cool i got away time to start dealing some damage -

just kidding .. bruce lee over here chucking ninja stars at me just all up in my face while hes playing hide and go fuck yourself.
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#35 Thugjitsu

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

View PostKPul, on 28 March 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

no.. because shuriken toss isnt one shotting people thru cooldowns

If you're going to defend one retarded ability then you might as well defend them all.  You are a rogue so you are going to be biased.  I ripped on warriors who defended TFB too.

Rogues should not have a ranged ability that can hit for that much, period.
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#36 dionim

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:50 PM

the damage itself its not the problem

the problem is that this damage comes from a MEELE CLASS

remove the auto attack damage, make it cost 35~40 energy, and put deadly throw together with the talent (w/o the interrupt)

Edited by dionim, 28 March 2013 - 07:52 PM.


#37 Pootius_6592477

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:04 PM

Am I the only one that is always creeped out by Mimmick's profile picture everytime you see it?

#38 mimmick

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostMattadoro, on 28 March 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

just waiting for the hunter ability called pistol whipping where we smack our gun on people's head within melee range for 90k's as if they were ambush spams

i should be a dev
or you could just hit them for a 200k powershot instead?

#39 Hackattack3

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:29 PM

View PostThugjitsu, on 28 March 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

If you're going to defend one retarded ability then you might as well defend them all.  You are a rogue so you are going to be biased.  I ripped on warriors who defended TFB too.

Rogues should not have a ranged ability that can hit for that much, period.

Quoting to put Katie Upton on Page 3 when I read stupid responses from other people.

#40 Hackattack3

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:38 PM

View PostKPul, on 28 March 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

While i do agree that when the stars align that shuriken toss hits very, very hard.  Wouldn't you guys agree that when a player has trinkets procced and such situations enabled that allow such high damage output, that you guys would be forced to start CC'ing him at that point. You are shooting yourself in the foot if you dont want to CC the targets that pop their on use trinkets because at that point they, usually, are going for the kill.


+rep for educating me about shuriken toss, I really didn't know much about it.  I would love to see a similar breakdown or thoughts on deadly throw?

Highlighted point I would like to make.  Rooting melee is a form of CC.  Why did they remove snare immunity from Avatar for warriors?  So you could cc them during beast mode (i.e. roots).

I would put unholy dks in the same boat here w/ dots ticking harder than lock and spriest dots but that's a different conversation.

Part of playing a melee class is saving CDs to burst when you cannot be controlled (including rooted).

Another thing I would like to point out is not just the "damage done" from these abilities but the damage per second.  These tosses come flying out like out of a machine gun.  Sure they're hitting for 10-20k but they are hitting SEVERAL times inside of 5 seconds.

Edited by Hackattack3, 28 March 2013 - 09:38 PM.





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