Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Teamates getting discouraged too easily.

WoW Arena 3s

  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 GrieverZ

GrieverZ
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Thaurissan
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1301
  • Talents: Marksmanship 2/0/2/0/1/0
  • 2v2: 1698
  • 3v3: 2495
  • 5v5: 1335
  • RBG: 192

Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:31 AM

Note : Would be great if this thread didn't get destroyed by pointless elitism or flat out trolling this website has been subject to for a while, i'm sure i'm not the only one that ran into that kind of issues before so i feel the discussion could be useful to more people than myself.

So, i'm playing with friends atm, both great guys i have fun with but without much experience at the higher end of the arena pole (their higher point was 2300ish in S8 where glad was like 2600-2700ish).

Always seem to see the same trend when i play in this kind of teams tough, first people are all pumped up and pretty much end up generating ridiculous expectations out of it "yeah gonna be nice gonna get glad easy blablabla".

Then we play and build our MMR and all is great again until we hit "that wall" where we actually need to start working towards improving as a team, ours was around 2k this season (wich is like top 50ish on our bgroup) atm. We were rank 35ish at some point so i don't think we were doing awefull for a new team working together.

Personally i try to be positive and i'm sure we can keep going if we work towards it and try to have fun and think its kinda pointless to worry too much about rating 2 weeks into the season, i try to spark some discussions, try out new strategies, try different calls etc to improve our chances while also listening to their opinions etc, to try to spark some teamwork.

Sadly most of those team i've been on always reach a point where people either cares way too much about rating or w/l while i don't feel its relevant or just feel discouraged at making no progress and just want to quit, or just complains about game balance non-stop or find a new team or whatever. I feel my current team has reached that point again and i'm really fucking tired of dealing with this, its not the first time and i don't feel it will be the last

How should i deal with it? Is 2 week as a new team enough to reach the top 0.5% of the ladder, if it doesn't work just call it quit or am i actually right to try and work for it? I just feel people always expect instant success and i'm sick of it.

Maybe its my attitude thats wrong? Maybe i should expect success faster like them?

I mean i want to keep playing with them, i know they're great players, one of them was Grand Master in SC2 at some point and the other is just really fun to have around, i'm just really tired of dealing with emo bullshit anytime there's a stone in the way.

Idk, only times i reached high points in the ladder was playing with past season's glad, experience goes a long way i guess.

The ladder being completly deflated doesn't help, they seem to make a big deal we're stuck at 1900-2k when by some of earlier season's standards we would be 2400+ judging by the rankings.

How do you deal with that kind of things, if some of you remember some of your first glad pushes, or even Rank 1 pushes, or things like that, is it normal? How should i try to motivate them again? Should we just chain reroll teams until we get a result that seems to satisfy them? Out of ideas.

Edited by GrieverZ, 24 March 2013 - 05:33 AM.


#2 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3614
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:35 AM

Man if all players were like you, WoW would be the perfect game.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#3 Acebloke

Acebloke
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Korgath
  • Vengeance
  • Posts: 20
  • Talents: Holy 0/1/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 192

Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:55 AM

There's a point where emo/ragers are a teams worst enemy. striving for ur team to make very few mistakes is fine to improve ur game, but if you dont enjoy playing with ur parnters and feel you are making no progress you always have a choice to find ppl who you do enjoy playing with.
Posted Image

#4 GrieverZ

GrieverZ
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Thaurissan
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1301
  • Talents: Marksmanship 2/0/2/0/1/0
  • 2v2: 1698
  • 3v3: 2495
  • 5v5: 1335
  • RBG: 192

Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:32 AM

View PostAcebloke, on 24 March 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

There's a point where emo/ragers are a teams worst enemy. striving for ur team to make very few mistakes is fine to improve ur game, but if you dont enjoy playing with ur parnters and feel you are making no progress you always have a choice to find ppl who you do enjoy playing with.

Thats the thing tough, i really enjoyed playing with them until last two sessions, i'm trying to see how i can put things back on track :/.

#5 Braindance

Braindance
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 3614
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 1638
  • 3v3: 2172
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationAtlanta

Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:49 AM

View PostGrieverZ, on 24 March 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

Thats the thing tough, i really enjoyed playing with them until last two sessions, i'm trying to see how i can put things back on track :/.
You won't. As soon as they pass to the other side there is no turning back. I have tried and failed many, many times. Take a look at a AJ - 90% has passed to the other side and they are beyond saving. Give them an ultimatum and if they don't comply leave them.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#6 Pritchard

Pritchard
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 617
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/0/0

Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:09 AM

honestly, i play with a couple friends like this, they get really upset any time they lose, because they used to be good in the past, etc.

It does reach a point where if they are just habitually emo, or go into everygame thinking its going to be an automatic loss, that its just time to move on, but hopefully still remain friends!  However, keep up with the positive reinforcement, and keep offering tips/strats/etc.  Maybe even just try being a little brunt while still being friendly,  Just say "hey, we can't get better as a team if we are going to be negative."  Some people will get the hint, others won't, either way, good luck to you!  And I hope you can enjoy whatever is left in the game!

#7 Kriff

Kriff
  • Premium Junkies
  • Curse Premium
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Lightninghoof
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 23
  • Talents: Shadow 1/2/0/1/2/2
  • RBG: 2105

Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:11 AM

View PostGrieverZ, on 24 March 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

Note : Would be great if this thread didn't get destroyed by pointless elitism or flat out trolling this website has been subject to for a while, i'm sure i'm not the only one that ran into that kind of issues before so i feel the discussion could be useful to more people than myself.

So, i'm playing with friends atm, both great guys i have fun with but without much experience at the higher end of the arena pole (their higher point was 2300ish in S8 where glad was like 2600-2700ish).

Always seem to see the same trend when i play in this kind of teams tough, first people are all pumped up and pretty much end up generating ridiculous expectations out of it "yeah gonna be nice gonna get glad easy blablabla".

Then we play and build our MMR and all is great again until we hit "that wall" where we actually need to start working towards improving as a team, ours was around 2k this season (wich is like top 50ish on our bgroup) atm. We were rank 35ish at some point so i don't think we were doing awefull for a new team working together.

Personally i try to be positive and i'm sure we can keep going if we work towards it and try to have fun and think its kinda pointless to worry too much about rating 2 weeks into the season, i try to spark some discussions, try out new strategies, try different calls etc to improve our chances while also listening to their opinions etc, to try to spark some teamwork.

Sadly most of those team i've been on always reach a point where people either cares way too much about rating or w/l while i don't feel its relevant or just feel discouraged at making no progress and just want to quit, or just complains about game balance non-stop or find a new team or whatever. I feel my current team has reached that point again and i'm really fucking tired of dealing with this, its not the first time and i don't feel it will be the last

How should i deal with it? Is 2 week as a new team enough to reach the top 0.5% of the ladder, if it doesn't work just call it quit or am i actually right to try and work for it? I just feel people always expect instant success and i'm sick of it.

Maybe its my attitude thats wrong? Maybe i should expect success faster like them?

I mean i want to keep playing with them, i know they're great players, one of them was Grand Master in SC2 at some point and the other is just really fun to have around, i'm just really tired of dealing with emo bullshit anytime there's a stone in the way.

Idk, only times i reached high points in the ladder was playing with past season's glad, experience goes a long way i guess.

The ladder being completly deflated doesn't help, they seem to make a big deal we're stuck at 1900-2k when by some of earlier season's standards we would be 2400+ judging by the rankings.

How do you deal with that kind of things, if some of you remember some of your first glad pushes, or even Rank 1 pushes, or things like that, is it normal? How should i try to motivate them again? Should we just chain reroll teams until we get a result that seems to satisfy them? Out of ideas.

Honestly, they just do not have the mentality to improve like you do. If you look at it in a business point of view, they are content with their jobs while you desire to push up the corporate ladder.

If you enjoy playing with them, by all means continue to play with them. However, if they do not try to become better, do not expect to get gladiator - just play with them for fun and whatever happens, happens. Too many people set a goal beyond what they desire to strive towards.

Perhaps you could play on an alt with them? That way, you could find a team to push glad with on one character, and play with them on an alt. Just keep in mind that everyone falls before they learn to walk. If they can't stand the struggle, then they will not win the fight. Personally, I suggest you all play for fun until you eventually gel together: only then should you consider serious pushes. However, if they do not want to push, then it is what it is. Some people are content with what they have, while others strive for more: you are in the latter.

P.S. This is drunken philosophy, so take what you will out of it haha.

#8 Synkz

Synkz
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Blood Furnace
  • Retaliation
  • Posts: 2658
  • Talents: Destruction 0/2/0/0/2/.

Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:38 AM

Try to get them not to look at your own team's rating OR the enemy team's rating during queue sessions.
It would probably help them to concentrate more on the actual game and make it more enjoyable for them, plus it's less stressful when you don't care/look at ratings.  Whatever you can do to take their minds off of rating and keep things light and fun.

In the end though it's up to them whether they get stressed out and rage/emo, or choose to have fun and learn from games instead.

Edited by Synkz, 24 March 2013 - 08:01 AM.


#9 Acebloke

Acebloke
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Korgath
  • Vengeance
  • Posts: 20
  • Talents: Holy 0/1/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 192

Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:03 AM

View PostGrieverZ, on 24 March 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

Thats the thing tough, i really enjoyed playing with them until last two sessions, i'm trying to see how i can put things back on track :/.

Tbh probs wont ever be the same, what you need is like-minded players to yourself.

Edited by Acebloke, 24 March 2013 - 08:03 AM.

Posted Image

#10 Korzul

Korzul
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • EU-Doomhammer
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 374
  • Talents: Restoration 0/2/0/1/1/0
  • 2v2: 2315
  • 3v3: 2744
  • 5v5: 480
  • RBG: 1151

Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

First ask them if they have the desire/time to practice and attempt a proper ratings push.

If they do and they're serious about it then drop any predisposed ideas about what rating you believe you should be playing at. Your goal is to master the comp and eventually trust each other properly. That's not to say people won't screw up whilst playing, you just want to get to the point where if someone does screw up they know why and they do their best not to repeat it too often.
Until you're all confident and know exactly what needs to be done against most/every comp (and if it's possible to realistically beat the comps etc) then it's all learning so your rating means nothing and people shouldn't even start to rage about loses.

Next go watch some vods, there's plenty of thug cleave vods around so get some ideas and see what shizzle they use to make sure they get clean openers and clean dances every min etc.

If there's anything you notice on the vods that your partners aren't doing (Redirect stuns/saps out of certain cc/silencing shots to stop openers etc) then it time for them to get some new binds and macros and practice with them.
If they're leaving gaps in lockdown chains/cc chains then get losecontrol/make the icons bigger etc to stop it.
If your teams missing important stuff like offensive cooldowns from the other team then it's time to move some frames around or download and configure an addon to help.

The most frustrating thing when playing with people is most definately when they:
Screw up and point blank refuse to change anything because they're "comfortable with how they play" - That's pretty much a deal breaker for most teams.
You lose a lot and don't know what to change to stop it.

After every game you win you should be critiquing how you forced cooldowns and eventually got a kill, also noting any defensives they didn't/couldn't use .
After every loss you should be acknowledging what stopped you getting the kill/cooldowns or why someone died ("Yeah trinketting before he used reck/bomb/blades etc was a bad idea, i'll save it next time"). Thats not to say your blaming partners but you are working out what to do differently next time ("I popped bm too early and got peeled with fear in the opener, i'll just save it to break fear next time and we should force x cooldown") etc.

The rest is really practice and getting the experience to know what you need to be using to force/prevent something in a given situation. The only way you get that is by playing lots with the gear and seeing how much damage you put out and take.

Also just to reinforce something from the above:
Stop caring about rating! If you guys do decide to keep playing then any game you lose and learn from is a huge plus, any game you win is again a plus as you're building up some consistency which you'll need at the end of the season.

Edited by Korzul, 24 March 2013 - 08:21 AM.


#11 acushi

acushi
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1097
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/0/2/2/1

Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:18 AM

I used to only play arena with my good irl friends.  Its not worth getting raged at by some punk on skype.

#12 Deeklol

Deeklol
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Area 52
  • Retaliation
  • Posts: 561
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:24 AM

View PostSynkz, on 24 March 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

Try to get them not to look at your own team's rating OR the enemy team's rating during queue sessions.
It would probably help them to concentrate more on the actual game and make it more enjoyable for them, plus it's less stressful when you don't care/look at ratings.  Whatever you can do to take their minds off of rating and keep things light and fun.

In the end though it's up to them whether they get stressed out and rage/emo, or choose to have fun and learn from games instead.

Synkz is my fav poster on aj, always got helpful and positive things to say. This community needs more ppl like him.
Hey, add me on LoL :)

IGN: Keklyz

#13 GrieverZ

GrieverZ
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Thaurissan
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1301
  • Talents: Marksmanship 2/0/2/0/1/0
  • 2v2: 1698
  • 3v3: 2495
  • 5v5: 1335
  • RBG: 192

Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:29 AM

View PostKorzul, on 24 March 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

First ask them if they have the desire/time to practice and attempt a proper ratings push.

If they do and they're serious about it then drop any predisposed ideas about what rating you believe you should be playing at. Your goal is to master the comp and eventually trust each other properly. That's not to say people won't screw up whilst playing, you just want to get to the point where if someone does screw up they know why and they do their best not to repeat it too often.
Until you're all confident and know exactly what needs to be done against most/every comp (and if it's possible to realistically beat the comps etc) then it's all learning so your rating means nothing and people shouldn't even start to rage about loses.

Next go watch some vods, there's plenty of thug cleave vods around so get some ideas and see what shizzle they use to make sure they get clean openers and clean dances every min etc.

If there's anything you notice on the vods that your partners aren't doing (Redirect stuns/saps out of certain cc/silencing shots to stop openers etc) then it time for them to get some new binds and macros and practice with them.
If they're leaving gaps in lockdown chains/cc chains then get losecontrol/make the icons bigger etc to stop it.
If your teams missing important stuff like offensive cooldowns from the other team then it's time to move some frames around or download and configure an addon to help.

The most frustrating thing when playing with people is most definately when they:
Screw up and point blank refuse to change anything because they're "comfortable with how they play" - That's pretty much a deal breaker for most teams.
You lose a lot and don't know what to change to stop it.

After every game you win you should be critiquing how you forced cooldowns and eventually got a kill, also noting any defensives they didn't/couldn't use .
After every loss you should be acknowledging what stopped you getting the kill/cooldowns or why someone died ("Yeah trinketting before he used reck/bomb/blades etc was a bad idea, i'll save it next time"). Thats not to say your blaming partners but you are working out what to do differently next time ("I popped bm too early and got peeled with fear in the opener, i'll just save it to break fear next time and we should force x cooldown") etc.

The rest is really practice and getting the experience to know what you need to be using to force/prevent something in a given situation. The only way you get that is by playing lots with the gear and seeing how much damage you put out and take.

Kinda what i was looking for, gonna try to put that in practice with them and see if it brings any results.

#14 watchmepwn

watchmepwn
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Talnivarr
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 541
  • Talents: Frost 0/0/0/2/1/2
  • 2v2: 2136
  • 3v3: 2880
  • 5v5: 2354
  • RBG: 768

Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:43 AM

Keep on practicing, allthough if you have a goal. Like getting gladiator. May I ask what is your setup? I kinda find myself stuck in constantly playing the same setup with the same people. But I never play (for some reason) a fotm comp. I've noticed 3 bad players in my realm teamed up as RPS this season. Really, if you watch them play.. you are like dafaq? But they hit 2400+ within 40 games. (The comp is so good, it can't really lose tbh)

Hitting gladrange (and im not saying JUST the comp) but it has alot to do to the comp. The easier the comp, the easier the wins, the faster you get better at winning at that ease.

#15 hearthadinlol

hearthadinlol
  • Kaska
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 363
  • Talents: Restoration 0/2/1/1/0/0
  • RBG: 192

Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:49 AM

reroll a feral druid

xfer to bloodlust

sit healer start to finish

congratulations you have earned tyrannical gladiator you brainless fuck

Edited by hearthadinlol, 24 March 2013 - 09:52 AM.

Posted Image

#16 Raak

Raak
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • EU-Ravencrest
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 733
  • Talents: Restoration 0/2/0/1/0/0
  • 2v2: 1693
  • 3v3: 2124

Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:41 AM

View Postwatchmepwn, on 24 March 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Keep on practicing, allthough if you have a goal. Like getting gladiator. May I ask what is your setup? I kinda find myself stuck in constantly playing the same setup with the same people. But I never play (for some reason) a fotm comp. I've noticed 3 bad players in my realm teamed up as RPS this season. Really, if you watch them play.. you are like dafaq? But they hit 2400+ within 40 games. (The comp is so good, it can't really lose tbh)

Hitting gladrange (and im not saying JUST the comp) but it has alot to do to the comp. The easier the comp, the easier the wins, the faster you get better at winning at that ease.

Attitude like this wont help you improve. I've played alot with people who have unrealistic ideas about how high they should be, always blaming the comp (which is a huge factor, not gonna try argue that), blaming the mates etc and after every defeat they had "done everything they could".

If you're blind towards your own flaws how can you expect to improve?

I remember when I didn't play this game for like 1.5yrs, I came back and I was horrible. Playstyle had changed and people who were were playing several hundred ratings below me in the past were just simply alot better than me. I just had to suck it up and start practising again instead of finding excuses why I didn't compete in the same league with them.
Posted Image

#17 Kettu

Kettu
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Dunemaul
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 628
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 1/0/2/0/2/0
  • RBG: 960
  • LocationKuwait

Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:50 AM

This is not Dr. Phil.

Hope this helps.

#18 Elorxo

Elorxo
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Defias Brotherhood
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 681
  • Talents: Holy 1/1/1/1/0/1/.
  • 2v2: 2428
  • 3v3: 2872
  • 5v5: 1248
  • RBG: 384
  • LocationUnited Kingdom

Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:53 AM

View Posthearthadinlol, on 24 March 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

reroll a feral druid

xfer to bloodlust

sit healer start to finish

congratulations you have earned tyrannical gladiator you brainless fuck

fits perfectly with your sig

#19 Raak

Raak
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • EU-Ravencrest
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 733
  • Talents: Restoration 0/2/0/1/0/0
  • 2v2: 1693
  • 3v3: 2124

Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:53 AM

View PostKettu, on 24 March 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

This is not Dr. Phil.

Hope this helps.

Yeah thread that doesn't revolve around posting funny gifs and flaming people like usual so bad.
Posted Image

#20 Pradafiend

Pradafiend
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1169
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/0/1/2/1
  • 2v2: 1904

Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:59 AM

View PostDeeklol, on 24 March 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Synkz is my fav poster on aj, always got helpful and positive things to say. This community needs more ppl like him.

stfu retard. btw be on tomorrow gonna try to rbg




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<