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Arena participation since MoP compared to other seasons


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#41 Hyuru

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:38 AM

View Postcharles34534534, on 20 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Blutdurst had top 175 glad in s3
from 2s, 3s and 5s combined maybe, im pretty sure this thread is 3s only.

#42 charles34534534

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:14 AM

View PostHyuru, on 20 March 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

from 2s, 3s and 5s combined maybe, im pretty sure this thread is 3s only.

Posted Image

fuck you

Edited by charles34534534, 20 March 2013 - 10:17 AM.


#43 Hyuru

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

View Postcharles34534534, on 20 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Posted Image

fuck you
why are you so mad? is that even accurate? did arena participation get 3x lower from s3 to s4?

Edited by Hyuru, 20 March 2013 - 11:29 AM.


#44 charles34534534

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:55 PM

View PostHyuru, on 20 March 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

why are you so mad? is that even accurate? did arena participation get 3x lower from s3 to s4?

yes, s4 was 3x as short, was 1.4 times less, teams cost money to create, many people quit s4, why the fuck am i writing to you, you fuck

#45 GrieverZ

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:08 AM

View Postdawtz, on 19 March 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

The community is just horrible, I can't even rbg without being paranoid of joining a group that ddos's or is going to get dos'd if I join a game, and everyone in this game is so elitist its disgusting. As the community shrinks finding good partners also does which makes me not want to log on either...

I'd say this is a big issue, community being completly toxic and intolerant to new players or "less skilled" players pretty much is killing it.

#46 GrieverZ

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:19 AM

View PostWildeHilde, on 20 March 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

The reason is mainly that RBGs are a huge hassle already and doing arena rewards pretty much nothing except some achievements or titles. RBGs give more titles, transmog gear, are way easier to play, require much less interface finetuning. You have to do RBGs pretty much and arena beyond the 2v2 capping is something additional without much of a reward.Secondly PvE gear doesn't help anymore unless you have pieces of final heroic bosses.

Yesterday I played with a druid that returned to WoW after many years, think he left around the midth of WotLK. The shear amount of macros and keybinds you need to play arena is high and the gear discrepancy is huge. He played at Duelist level some years ago but now he had so many new things to learn that I'm pretty sure he would have given up trying to play with randoms soon. Although everyone always says how WoW takes zero skill etc. - for returning (and even more for new) players the amount of time needed to be able to compete in arena is pretty huge. Unless you have someone that is patient and explains everything you are pretty much screwed.

Also this, as much as the jaded players with 600 days /played on their character love to say WoW takes no skill, getting into arena as a new player is an insanely steep learning curve, 2s being worthless makes it worse because those new players end up getting stomp by much higher rated people just capping points. I started arena seriously in S7 and i wasn't even close to be competitive until S8, and i was playing a LOT, also constantly watching videos. Not everyone has that kind of patience or dedication.

There's very little that can help you improve your gameplay inside the game itself too, you pretty much have to look for the information yourself and subscribe to things like Skill Capped, its another thing this community love making fun of but its borderline required for new players nowadays, otherwise how are new players suposed to even hope catching up with people that have been playing arena for 5-6 years?

Fixing 2s, maybe making 2s and 3s MMR tied or something would help a lot so new players can fight each other without getting stomped 12 times by rival+ players (wich are a lot better than new players) capping their points would help. Skirmishes also need to come back, its the only form of non-rated arena practice you can ever get, i know i used to spam them all the time specially when i tried to learn to game or learned a new class/spec.

#47 ardnut

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:04 AM

View PostGrieverZ, on 21 March 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Also this, as much as the jaded players with 600 days /played on their character love to say WoW takes no skill, getting into arena as a new player is an insanely steep learning curve, 2s being worthless makes it worse because those new players end up getting stomp by much higher rated people just capping points. I started arena seriously in S7 and i wasn't even close to be competitive until S8, and i was playing a LOT, also constantly watching videos. Not everyone has that kind of patience or dedication.

There's very little that can help you improve your gameplay inside the game itself too, you pretty much have to look for the information yourself and subscribe to things like Skill Capped, its another thing this community love making fun of but its borderline required for new players nowadays, otherwise how are new players suposed to even hope catching up with people that have been playing arena for 5-6 years?

Fixing 2s, maybe making 2s and 3s MMR tied or something would help a lot so new players can fight each other without getting stomped 12 times by rival+ players (wich are a lot better than new players) capping their points would help. Skirmishes also need to come back, its the only form of non-rated arena practice you can ever get, i know i used to spam them all the time specially when i tried to learn to game or learned a new class/spec.

Totally agree with you.  I made a thread in the waiting room when I didn't have access about 2v2 fucking up arena participation

http://www.arenajunk...-participation/
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#48 Duncan

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:34 AM

I wonder if blizzard has ever considered not nerfing the best specs into the ground each season? Generally people are FOTM due to these changes in the first place, and when these extreme nerfs hit it creates a bad spot.

You can either attempt to play with lower partners than your skill, play with friends, or reroll.  Rerolling sounds nice in theory, but I don't know about you all, but most people do not wish to play with a class you are new at.  Then you take all these steps and you run into the gear disparity.  Not to mention if you re-roll FOTM your looking at the same cycle from the top to the bottom.

I am not saying that is the only reason, but I am sure it is a very real reason.  This only incurs more quitting when most of the time the top classes go from the top to the bottom over 13 seasons.

#49 Ansi

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:26 AM

Those numbers are not correct

#50 Vadren

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:33 AM

View PostWildeHilde, on 20 March 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

The reason is mainly that RBGs are a huge hassle already and doing arena rewards pretty much nothing except some achievements or titles. RBGs give more titles, transmog gear, are way easier to play, require much less interface finetuning. You have to do RBGs pretty much and arena beyond the 2v2 capping is something additional without much of a reward.Secondly PvE gear doesn't help anymore unless you have pieces of final heroic bosses.

Yesterday I played with a druid that returned to WoW after many years, think he left around the midth of WotLK. The shear amount of macros and keybinds you need to play arena is high and the gear discrepancy is huge. He played at Duelist level some years ago but now he had so many new things to learn that I'm pretty sure he would have given up trying to play with randoms soon. Although everyone always says how WoW takes zero skill etc. - for returning (and even more for new) players the amount of time needed to be able to compete in arena is pretty huge. Unless you have someone that is patient and explains everything you are pretty much screwed.

I've had a similar experience recently. A group of 4 RL friends, including me, started playing MoP together just before 5.2. One of them played with me in vanilla, and then briefly at 80 and the other two have done almost no arena but were active raiders from tbc to cata.

The one who I've done arena with at 80 knew what he was getting into, but it's still a lot of instruction just to try and get him up to my (admittedly) low level of skill. It's hard to appreciate that two of the most important parts of playing arena - watching enemy cast bars and buffs/debuffs - have the smallest screen real estate on the UI until trying to explain to someone how important it is to watch these constantly.

There is no hope for the raiders. After one explained to me that it's unreasonable to windshear a mob, while also healing, when we were doing bwd 4 man I knew not to even try.

Even for me coming back to the game just before patch 5.2 was a huge hassle. For MoP some abilities were removed, some added and working out the key binds and macros so that I don't feel clumsy in arena is rather complex.

The learning curve from leveling -> raiding -> bgs -> arena is pretty steep and more like a cliff face when the gear difference between new and active players is factored in.
Vadren#1175

#51 Hyuru

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

View Postcharles34534534, on 20 March 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

yes, s4 was 3x as short, was 1.4 times less, teams cost money to create, many people quit s4, why the fuck am i writing to you, you fuck
s3 lasted a bit under twice as long as s4, teams cost money to create in s4 aswell, you're a spastic

pce

#52 droolingmoron

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

the playerbase got older and a lot of them stopped playing. simple
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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:44 AM

View Postdawtz, on 19 March 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

The community is just horrible, I can't even rbg without being paranoid of joining a group that ddos's or is going to get dos'd if I join a game, and everyone in this game is so elitist its disgusting. As the community shrinks finding good partners also does which makes me not want to log on either...

this x1000. im by no means a stellar player compared to a lot of people here but, even i have been ddos'd and i'm literally a nobody compared to most of the people here.

its toxic crap like that, that ruins the game.

plus i feel as if the game is just getting old for most people. a lot of people are moving on, most people who played back in tbc/wrath and got gladiator titles are 21+ years of age now, and cba to play WoW competitively, especially in the state its in

#54 Canadianpimp_613638

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 05:07 PM

Don't have the desire anymore to play with 21 year olds who think a couple grand doing carries is making bank.

#55 Toitles

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 05:31 PM

View Postdroolingmoron, on 21 March 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

the playerbase got older and a lot of them stopped playing. simple
But the game itself hasn't shrunk nearly as much as arenas have, so perhaps it is not so simple?

affix said:

The #1 sign that your thread was unnecessary is if the you can copy+paste the thread title in to google, hit 'I'm feeling lucky', and get your answer

#56 Leeston

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:15 PM

A couple of things influenced me to pvp much less seriously than I used to.

1.  Win Trading and Exploiting.  These problems are taking far to long to get fixed and mmr is not being reset after major exploits have been found.
2.  Selling Titles/Carries.  This garbage isn't good for the game, no offense to those of you who do it, money is money after all.
3.  The community is trash now.  Nobody cares about anyone else at all and finding respectful players is now a rare occurrence at best.
4.  Arena is too much like "rock, paper scissors".  Half of the games I join have the outcome decided before the gates even open.
5.  Alt gearing and late starts are much more difficult now.  Because of this I no longer play any of my alts that much in pvp.
6.  The arms race between casters and melee has given almost every class too much instant damage and instant cc.  A lot of people spend most of the games they are playing not being able to play the game and a lot of people end up dying without being able to do anything to stop the damage.
7.  Rated Battlegrounds are fun but they should not give a higher cap than arena. Players should not feel "forced" to do them to complete their gear at the same pace as those who do.
8.  All of these factors have contributed to population decline, which is another problem that needs to be dealt with.  Battlegroups on the same physical data centers need to be merged.  Teams under 2000 should not be facing the same teams over and over again.

#57 GrieverZ

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:52 PM

View PostCanadianpimp_613638, on 21 March 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Don't have the desire anymore to play with 21 year olds who think a couple grand doing carries is making bank.

When you're 21 y/o you tend to be still at College or Uni so anything helps, unless you leech off your parents. But you're right, i wouldn't play an internet video game with anyone that doesn't make at least 150k a year either.

Spoiler

Edited by GrieverZ, 21 March 2013 - 11:53 PM.


#58 Surel

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:38 AM

View PostLeeston, on 21 March 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

A couple of things influenced me to pvp much less seriously than I used to.

1.  Win Trading and Exploiting.  These problems are taking far to long to get fixed and mmr is not being reset after major exploits have been found.
2.  Selling Titles/Carries.  This garbage isn't good for the game, no offense to those of you who do it, money is money after all.
3.  The community is trash now.  Nobody cares about anyone else at all and finding respectful players is now a rare occurrence at best.
4.  Arena is too much like "rock, paper scissors".  Half of the games I join have the outcome decided before the gates even open.
5.  Alt gearing and late starts are much more difficult now.  Because of this I no longer play any of my alts that much in pvp.
6.  The arms race between casters and melee has given almost every class too much instant damage and instant cc.  A lot of people spend most of the games they are playing not being able to play the game and a lot of people end up dying without being able to do anything to stop the damage.
7.  Rated Battlegrounds are fun but they should not give a higher cap than arena. Players should not feel "forced" to do them to complete their gear at the same pace as those who do.
8.  All of these factors have contributed to population decline, which is another problem that needs to be dealt with.  Battlegroups on the same physical data centers need to be merged.  Teams under 2000 should not be facing the same teams over and over again.

Great post

#59 Blur

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:34 AM

I think it has something to do with the fact that the game got competition.

Arena's can very much be compared with League of Legends in a way that both are arena type of games where positioning and how you manage your cooldowns are huge factors in victory, that aswell as team composition and stratergy.

To me, WoW Arena has been the most fun and intense gaming experience I've ever played, and to be frank, I don't even think League of Legends is as fun as arena was back in WotlK or TBC, but arenas and game balance has just become worse and worse over the times, and it has been casualized and alot less fun to play. So even tho I like the model of arenas much more than how league of legends work, I've chosen to play League of Legends now instead. And I know a TON of ex-multiglads / rank1's who has done the same.

Sure, arenas are awesome, but why play something the developers of the game doesn't give a rats ass about? Tbh if someone managed to release an arena game (or better yet) if wow managed to fix theirs, and make it competetive, i'd much prefer it to league of legends. But right now, the game just isn't as fun, and people are starting to see options, so we're no longer stuck with the less fun alternate.

edit: tired, middle of the night and i can't sleep, so its probably shit formulated, anyway as to why i lurk these forums when i'm not playing the game, is to occasionally check if it has changed anything towards the better on the arena side since i quit (which might make me wanna play again) but it doesnt seem like it

Edited by Blur, 22 March 2013 - 02:35 AM.


#60 Canadianpimp_613638

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:41 AM

View PostGrieverZ, on 21 March 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:



When you're 21 y/o you tend to be still at College or Uni so anything helps, unless you leech off your parents. But you're right, i wouldn't play an internet video game with anyone that doesn't make at least 150k a year either.

Spoiler

Is that how you really interpreted my post?

The point is that the monetization of PvP has lead to most the behavior that plagues it - carries, DDoSing, ladder exploitation. When the game becomes a business, those that view it as a primary source of income tend to behave differently than those that play it as a game.




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